Kagain, Edwin, Shar-teel Query

Fiach

Does anybody know the rep point spread within which they will stay in a party, prior to leaving please?

Thanks in advance

TJ_Hooker

All evil characters leave if you go over 18 reputation. Other than that they'll stay.

Fiach

Ok thanks TJ, I thought it was a bit lower. Cheers

Fiach

Shar-teel question, should I continue to build her two weapon style or focus on sword and board maybe? She has 1 pip in Longsword and 2 pips in Two Weapon Style, but her HP (17 at Lv 2) seems kinda low, compared to eg Kagain (15 at Lv 1).

STR 18/58, DEX 17, CON 9.

Thanks for any help

Lindeblom

Hi @Fiach I am so happy for you that you get to plag BGEE as a new game.

My suggestion is; Do what you feel is right for the NPC, there are 100 ways to run Shar-Teel and probably5 to run her the most effectively (paradox?).

Don't care about that now, care about that on your 5th replay, for now just enjoy the ride and see how she performs when you do what you want.

Fiach

Thanks for the reply Lindeblom

I seldom play as evil, so I probably wont be playing her again, so I kinda want to get her as "right" as possible this time.

Thanks anyway

KidCarnival

It is quite popular to build Shar-Teel as a ranged fighter and dual her to thief (at level 3, or the more complicated way at 6/7). She can be dualed without using any tomes and her backstabs will be quite mean. I like to dual her at level 3 and focus on the dagger proficiency, but that's a matter of taste and party composition. If you already have a thief, you might prefer her as a frontliner. Her con does suck, yes, and her high dex doesn't entirely make up for it. You can feed her a tome to get the con up, which I do if I dual her or not. As a frontliner, she does better with long swords in my opinion, but dagger is still a good alternative (due to a particular dagger you can buy in Beregost).

Fiach

I want here in the front, so you reckon forget the two weapons and sword and shield?

Thanks KidCarnival

KidCarnival

Recommendations for front Shar-Teel: I'd set her up with the buckler you can buy in Friendly Arm Inn (+1 con while equipped), then focus on long sword (for Vascona +2/cold damage) that you get early on. You're now at 10 con. Get her the tome next, and raise it to 11. She's not nearly as squishy anymore, is hard to hit due to her dex, but does beastly damage herself. She doesn't need the gloves to set her strength to 18/00 nor the dexterity gauntlets, so you can give her the gauntlets of mastery to improve her THAC0 instead.

Fardragon

Er? How do you work that out?

Bonus hp for 9, 10 and 11 con is exactly the same: zero!

Fiach

Thanks KidCarnival, I was actually heading to the mines to pick that sword up for her, cheers

KidCarnival

She's not getting more HP, but she won't be fatigued every few maps, which would give her penalties in fights. It's not such a concern for a back row NPC, who can just hide there and put a spell out, but for melee, it sucks a lot if she suddenly goes "I need rest" in a battle.

Fiach

KidCarnival said:

She's not getting more HP, but she won't be fatigued every few maps, which would give her penalties in fights. It's not such a concern for a back row NPC, who can just hide there and put a spell out, but for melee, it sucks a lot if she suddenly goes "I need rest" in a battle.

Thats great, thanks again for the advice KidCarnival

KidCarnival

Something that is also often overlooked and makes Shar-Teel more versatile is the option to make her a ranged DPS. She has no ranged proficiencies... unless you realize that there are Throwing Daggers, that make use of both her dagger prof and strength/dex. It's no long term ideal because there are no magical throwing daggers, but it is a solution to keep her out of melee harm's way on lower levels until you get her good armor and such. The downside is that daggers don't come in quivers and you have to refill manually (hence carry a lot - and they are heavy). I usually go to High Hedge and kill skeletons; they drop throwing daggers and cleaning out that map is usually enough to keep Shar-Teel going until she gets to level 3, where you can invest in a ranged (or melee) prof for long term use.

Madhax

KidCarnival said:

She's not getting more HP, but she won't be fatigued every few maps, which would give her penalties in fights. It's not such a concern for a back row NPC, who can just hide there and put a spell out, but for melee, it sucks a lot if she suddenly goes "I need rest" in a battle.

I'll have to disagree, I almost never deal with fatigue. Unless you're intentionally and unwisely pushing on when your party should be resting, you'll seldom encounter it. And if you're traveling vast distances, the difference between 9 and 11 constitution is negligible.

95% of the function of constitution in BGEE is for HP gains, and Shar-Teel will never reach those levels. Giving her a uniquely powerful shield and one of the most sought after items in the game just to make her less tired? Seems like a massive waste to me.

I don't know what class the OP is playing, but that constitution tome is almost certainly better in the hands of someone else. Dorn, for example, gets a nice HP boost out of it. A PC warrior will probably get an HP boost out of it as well, and that boost will last the whole saga, unlike Shar-Teel's. The buckler has the same function.

Shar-Teel is still effective as a flank attacker, backstabber, or archer. Don't try to turn her into a tank.

Erg

Madhax said:

Shar-Teel is still effective as a flank attacker, backstabber, or archer. Don't try to turn her into a tank.

This!

Fiach

My main is a Sorc (18 STR/DEX/CON, 15 INT), I have Kagain, Shar-teel, Viconia, jahira and Imoen (Archer currently, she will dual with magic later).
So far we have been ripping through everything (seemingly) with less difficulty than my Blackguard, with Neera, Dorn, Imoen, Viconia and Jahira.

Thanks all for the time taken to help/reply, it has been really useful

Erg

I'm currently playing with Shar-Teel in my party too.

It may not be one of the standard way to build her, but this is what I did:

Dual classed her to thief at level 6, stopped levelling her up at level 3 thief (to avoid wasting the level 4th proficiency), until she had enough XP to regain fighter levels.

Maximised Hide in Shadow and Move Silently (for backstabbing as I have other party members for the remaining thieving tasks)

Proficiencies:

Initial (Fighter Level 2)
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons ++

Fighter Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons +++

Fighter Level 6
Longsword ++
Dagger +
2Weapons +++

Thief Level 1
Sling +
Sword & Shield +

Fighter 6 / Thief 7
Longsword +++
Dagger +
2Weapons +++
Sling +
Sword & Shield +

Fighter 6 / Thief 8
Longsword +++
Dagger ++
2Weapons +++
Sling +
Sword & Shield +

She is dual wielding the best Longsword and the best Dagger in the game. Occasionally she can use a Sling (for increased damaged from her high strength) with a Large Shield.

Fiach

Thanks Erg for taking the time to do all that, I'm going to keep her as a fighter this run, but I will definately take her on the next run using those suggestions, as I like her character alot.
Thanks again

Fardragon

KidCarnival said:

She's not getting more HP, but she won't be fatigued every few maps, which would give her penalties in fights. It's not such a concern for a back row NPC, who can just hide there and put a spell out, but for melee, it sucks a lot if she suddenly goes "I need rest" in a battle.

Is this really worth a tomb and giving up dual wielding DPS? I've never had an issue with Shar-teel becoming fatigued, and I have her equipped with the Claw of Kazgaroth!

KidCarnival

The rest of my party is usually in the 14+ con area and it is annoying that the entire party has to rest because of one single NPC becoming useless due to fatigue. Travelling a 1 day way already makes her go "I need rest"; no other party member is anywhere near that. The 2 con do make a difference and I always feed the tome to the lowest con NPC. The exception would be if I could get to 20 on charname for regeneration - but what good would it do me to heal while travelling if I still arrive with a fatigued thief? I simply don't like resting on every single map.

Madhax

KidCarnival said:

The rest of my party is usually in the 14+ con area and it is annoying that the entire party has to rest because of one single NPC becoming useless due to fatigue. Travelling a 1 day way already makes her go "I need rest"; no other party member is anywhere near that. The 2 con do make a difference and I always feed the tome to the lowest con NPC. The exception would be if I could get to 20 on charname for regeneration - but what good would it do me to heal while travelling if I still arrive with a fatigued thief? I simply don't like resting on every single map.

A. Being a "slave driver", as Jaheira would call you, is a tactic more often employed by experienced players. Seeing as how this is the newbie forum, I doubt @Fiach will be pushing his party as hard as you do yours. Resting more makes the game easier, and new players rest a lot.

B. Where are you traveling that it takes so much time to get from different maps? I'm usually moving between adjacent areas, and the party rarely takes more than 8 hours or so to make the trip. I only ever make a major trip cross-map when I'm returning to town, and I couldn't care less if someone's tired upon reaching Beregost because we're hitting the inn anyway.

Fiach

I tend to rest when I run out of spells to cast, but if I see the yawn icon and I feel combat is imminent, then I would rest. I got the sword (+2) for Shart-eel, I gave the shield (+1 CON) to Kagain, he got an extra 1 HP.

Thanks for the help guys

Fardragon

KidCarnival said:

The rest of my party is usually in the 14+ con area and it is annoying that the entire party has to rest because of one single NPC becoming useless due to fatigue. Travelling a 1 day way already makes her go "I need rest"; no other party member is anywhere near that. The 2 con do make a difference and I always feed the tome to the lowest con NPC. The exception would be if I could get to 20 on charname for regeneration - but what good would it do me to heal while travelling if I still arrive with a fatigued thief? I simply don't like resting on every single map.

I always feed the tomb to someone who will gain more hp because of it.

But if you need a rest, take a rest. It's not like you have to wait 8 hours in real time! Or inns charge 100,000 gp per night! What do you do if you have multiple low con characters in your party (e.g. Shar-teel and Viconia)? I usually find myself resting to recover spells long before anyone gets tired anyway.

And Shar-teel has two stars in 2 weapon fighting. It's a shame to waste that extra DPS potential. Maybe if you absolutly need an extra archer. But I prefer Dorn in that role, his dex is only 1 less.

Fiach

Erg said:

I'm currently playing with Shar-Teel in my party too.

It may not be one of the standard way to build her, but this is what I did:

Dual classed her to thief at level 6, stopped levelling her up at level 3 thief (to avoid wasting the level 4th proficiency), until she had enough XP to regain fighter levels.

Maximised Hide in Shadow and Move Silently (for backstabbing as I have other party members for the remaining thieving tasks)

Proficiencies:

Initial (Fighter Level 2)
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons ++

Fighter Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons +++

''''/snip

I'm going to make a seperate save now I think, prior to Lv 3, I have currently Longsword +2 (from GW) and 2 short swords and a dagger all +1.

Which would be the best combination for dual wield do you think?

Thanks in advance

Erg

Fiach said:

Erg said:

I'm currently playing with Shar-Teel in my party too.

It may not be one of the standard way to build her, but this is what I did:

Dual classed her to thief at level 6, stopped levelling her up at level 3 thief (to avoid wasting the level 4th proficiency), until she had enough XP to regain fighter levels.

Maximised Hide in Shadow and Move Silently (for backstabbing as I have other party members for the remaining thieving tasks)

Proficiencies:

Initial (Fighter Level 2)
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons ++

Fighter Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons +++

''''/snip

I'm going to make a seperate save now I think, prior to Lv 3, I have currently Longsword +2 (from GW) and 2 short swords and a dagger all +1.

Which would be the best combination for dual wield do you think?

Thanks in advance

You should avoid using short swords as they will give you penalties to THAC0 as she is not proficient in them. I would use the Longsword +2 as your main weapon and the Dagger +1 as your secondary weapon. At low level doesn't matter, but at higher level you get extra attacks per round and they only apply to your main weapon.

Fiach

Erg said:

Fiach said:

Erg said:

I'm currently playing with Shar-Teel in my party too.

It may not be one of the standard way to build her, but this is what I did:

Dual classed her to thief at level 6, stopped levelling her up at level 3 thief (to avoid wasting the level 4th proficiency), until she had enough XP to regain fighter levels.

Maximised Hide in Shadow and Move Silently (for backstabbing as I have other party members for the remaining thieving tasks)

Proficiencies:

Initial (Fighter Level 2)
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons ++

Fighter Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
2Weapons +++

''''/snip

I'm going to make a seperate save now I think, prior to Lv 3, I have currently Longsword +2 (from GW) and 2 short swords and a dagger all +1.

Which would be the best combination for dual wield do you think?

Thanks in advance

You should avoid using short swords as they will give you penalties to THAC0 as she is not proficient in them. I would use the Longsword +2 as your main weapon and the Dagger +1 as your secondary weapon. At low level doesn't matter, but at higher level you get extra attacks per round and they only apply to your main weapon.

Thats a great help, thanks very much Erg

Erg

Also consider that if you keep her as Fighter, she will gain only two more proficiencies, one at level 3 and one at level 6. So plan carefully where you're going to spend them.

Fiach

Erg said:

Also consider that if you keep her as Fighter, she will gain only two more proficiencies, one at level 3 and one at level 6. So plan carefully where you're going to spend them.

Well, currently she is Lv 3 Fighter, (but I have a Lv 2 Fighter save, just before Nashkel Mines) :

Lv 3 Fighter

STR18
DEX 17
CON 9

Longsword ++
Dagger +
Two Weapon ++

What would you suggest Erg?

Erg

It depends how you want to play. If you just want to dual wield, I would do something like

Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
Two Weapon +++

Level 6
Longsword ++
Dagger +
Two Weapon +++

if you want to use two longswords, or one longsword (main hand) and one dagger (off hand)

or

Level 6
Longsword +
Dagger ++
Two Weapon +++

if you prefer two daggers or one dagger (main hand) and one longsword (off hand). Having a dagger in the main hand and a longsword in the off hand may seem weird but there aren't drawbacks in BG as there is no penalty for using an heavier weapon in the off hand.

You would still be able to use any ranged weapon if necessary, but with penalty to THAC0.


If you want to switch often between melee and ranged attacks, I would do something like

Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
Two Weapon ++
Ranged weapon of your choice +

Level 6
Longsword +
Dagger +
Ranged weapon of your choice +
Two Weapon +++

I personally prefer Slings for her as she can add her strength bonus to the damage, but any other ranged weapon will do. So choose whatever you like the most.


If you want to use her mainly as ranged, with the occasional melee attack, go for

Level 3
Longsword +
Dagger +
Two Weapon ++
Ranged weapon of your choice +

Level 6
Longsword +
Dagger +
Ranged weapon of your choice ++
Two Weapon ++

Of the two options I would rather chose the first (i.e. dual wielding over ranged) especially if you have other good ranged attacker in your party, but that's depend on party composition and personal preferences. So choose whatever suits you better.

I would not use her with weapon and shield, because imho she is better as damage dealer than tank.

KidCarnival

Hm, I don't really feel like a "slave driver", since Shar-Teel and very very rarely Dorn are the only ones to get fatigued the way I play. In either party combination, Shar-Teel or Xzar are the weakest link who wants to rest ALL THE TIME. With Xzar, it's not that bad because he doesn't go to the frontline, but Shar-Teel as a melee DPS doesn't work for me at all. She turns into a blinking red "hit me, I'm too tired to fight back" sign. Out of my usual suspects, no-one else needs the tome, yet feeding it to her saves me tons of annoyance like trying to rest and getting disturbed by stupid xvarts 17 times in a row (area east of temple, I'm looking at you).