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Must kill flaming fist mercenaries

I just can't help it. I meet them wandering the maps, they inquire me about something in an authoritarian and offending manner and then I just get pissed off and offend them back. Even with a good party I end up getting into a brawl, killing them and losing reputation (even when we are in the freaking middle of nowhere). It's like they are begging for it.

"I serve the flaming fist" you are an idiot, mind your own business goddammit........................... BAM

Does anyone share this with me?
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Comments

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Be careful. If your reputation gets low enough, they'll catch you, and you'll get a first hand demonstration of the device known as the flaming fist.
  • billyjeanbillyjean Member Posts: 18
    this is after you return from candlekeep? in chapter 7?

    you can use 1 char to lure them away with speed boots. Or you can lure them away with your thief and then pop hide in shadows when you run around a corner to enter a building.

    Or the ones just found on the map you just state ur adventures and they walk off lol
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    I'm pretty sure he knows the consequences and how to avoid them. His point is they are such asshats about it that he can't help but be an asshat back and it ends in bloodshed and reputation drop.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    SirK8 said:

    I'm pretty sure he knows the consequences and how to avoid them. His point is they are such asshats about it that he can't help but be an asshat back and it ends in bloodshed and reputation drop.

    Jep. Can't help but hit em.
  • billyjeanbillyjean Member Posts: 18
    at least you get some plate mail for free early on in the game :)
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 367
    The one south of beregost and the one attacking Viconia both don't give rep loss. The only other one I can think of is the one looking for Samuel, who gives a rep - to the herd of rampaging tarrasques that kills him.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Bigfish said:


    The only other one I can think of is the one looking for Samuel, who gives a rep - to the herd of rampaging tarrasques that kills him.

    He asked for it!
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    They are minding their own business, the business of being hired to police the region by the Dukes of Baldur's Gate. They have state-sponsored authority to question you.

    The Flaming Fist are NOT police. They are Mercenaries. Their authority and mandate is to harass common citizens but to maintain a military presence and cut down on the banditry. In that, I also agree that they come across awfully high handed in their accusations.

    On the other hand, I think that a "Goodly" party would be less likely to attack unless they were attacked first. And I think that they would go to extreme lengths to avoid provoking the mercs regardless of how high handed they were.

    When playing the game recently with my 'Goodly' aligned party at the point where you get arrested, I took the stance that I would let them take me in and plead my case. I imagine that doing otherwise would be 'Evil'. (role playing and not in any way saying that all Goodly parties would act that way. Merely that I did).
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @the_spyder

    You're right, they are mercenaries, but they are mercenaries being paid by the state to enforce the laws and security of the region. If you have a problem with that, you should either leave the country or take your grievance to the dukes.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    They are Mercs, which means you are partially right. They are charged with security of the region, not to enforce 'The law'. There is a big difference.

    Put simply they are the analogous to the army versus the police. The Army stops foreign aggression. the police solve domestic crimes.

    And in any case, corruption happens. Being 'in the employ of the Dukes' doesn't mean that they are given absolute authority. If the cross the line, they are just as accountable as any private citizen.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552

    @the_spyder

    You're right, they are mercenaries, but they are mercenaries being paid by the state to enforce the laws and security of the region. If you have a problem with that, you should either leave the country or take your grievance to the dukes.

    Medieval era adventurer's reasoning option one: "These law figures are truly bothering me with their authoritarian grieving behavior towards me. This does not fit into my anarchic belief system, nor does it fit my personal standards for social behavior. As a political statement I will leave these lands and live the rest of my life on a secluded island, where I will spend my time fishing and inquiring people how the heck it is possible to kill that local werewolf leader."

    Medieval era adventurer's reasoning option two: "Hmm duke Eltan's mercenaries of law are astonishingly rude to me. I will respond to their behavior submissively because they have state-sponsored authority... and stuff. Later I will personally request from the dukes to get their servants in line.... Because they will definitely listen to me: a nobody adventurer."

    Medieval era adventurer's reasoning option three: "I am walking in the wilderness with my party, an armored guy comes by all alone, starts threatening me and asking offensive questions. He keeps getting more aggressive and then attacks me. What an idiot............ BAM. Now back to finding food, a place to rest and figuring out why half the realm wants me dead."


    What makes more sense to you?
  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    Two wrongs don't make a right. Kill them with kindness (or a bastard sword)
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Delvarian said:

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    But do three lefts make a right?
    Delvarian said:

    Kill them with kindness

    the good choice.
    Delvarian said:

    (or a bastard sword)

    The evil choice.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited February 2013

    @the_spyder

    You're right, they are mercenaries, but they are mercenaries being paid by the state to enforce the laws and security of the region. If you have a problem with that, you should either leave the country or take your grievance to the dukes.

    Personally, I prefer to take down these good-for-nothing dukes and change the government of Baldur's Gate from an boring oligarchy constitutional monarchy into an all-new idiocracy full of highly charismatic and wise(?) gibberlings.

    Needless to say, they will rub cottage cheese on their bellies and eat vast quantities of fresh-water fish every time when they'll discuss the real important political matters of the Sword Coast. I'll also see to it that the Flaming Fist mercenaries will be replaced with the prestige and highly effective Asleep Foot militia. They are the best of the best.


  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    They are Mercs, which means you are partially right. They are charged with security of the region, not to enforce 'The law'. There is a big difference.

    Put simply they are the analogous to the army versus the police. The Army stops foreign aggression. the police solve domestic crimes.

    And in any case, corruption happens. Being 'in the employ of the Dukes' doesn't mean that they are given absolute authority. If the cross the line, they are just as accountable as any private citizen.

    They're fighting bandits domestically. Banditry is against the law. Therefore, they are enforcing the law. Why do you think they're the ones who come after you if you have low rep? Why do you think they occasionally shout "I AM THE LAW!" Baldur's Gate has no separate police and military force. They have the Flaming Fist, and then they also have the Flaming Fist.

    Anyway, my point was that the sentiments expressed in the OP were petulant and childish. Killing a man for doing his job and not kissing your ass is lunacy. He's being paid to kick bandits in the teeth, not suck up to your Level 1 Orphan.
    IkMarc said:



    Medieval era adventurer's reasoning option one: "These law figures are truly bothering me with their authoritarian grieving behavior towards me. This does not fit into my anarchic belief system, nor does it fit my personal standards for social behavior. As a political statement I will leave these lands and live the rest of my life on a secluded island, where I will spend my time fishing and inquiring people how the heck it is possible to kill that local werewolf leader."

    Medieval era adventurer's reasoning option two: "Hmm duke Eltan's mercenaries of law are astonishingly rude to me. I will respond to their behavior submissively because they have state-sponsored authority... and stuff. Later I will personally request from the dukes to get their servants in line.... Because they will definitely listen to me: a nobody adventurer."

    Medieval era adventurer's reasoning option three: "I am walking in the wilderness with my party, an armored guy comes by all alone, starts threatening me and asking offensive questions. He keeps getting more aggressive and then attacks me. What an idiot............ BAM. Now back to finding food, a place to rest and figuring out why half the realm wants me dead."


    What makes more sense to you?

    The correct answer: Try to not throw a huge tantrum for no reason and, instead of killing an innocent man who is doing his job, just leave. You said it yourself, you're a level 1 adventurer, so why should a Flaming Fist mercenary respect you any more than the Dukes?
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited February 2013



    They're fighting bandits domestically. Banditry is against the law. Therefore, they are enforcing the law. Why do you think they're the ones who come after you if you have low rep? Why do you think they occasionally shout "I AM THE LAW!" Baldur's Gate has no separate police and military force. They have the Flaming Fist, and then they also have the Flaming Fist.

    Anyway, my point was that the sentiments expressed in the OP were petulant and childish. Killing a man for doing his job and not kissing your ass is lunacy. He's being paid to kick bandits in the teeth, not suck up to your Level 1 Orphan.

    Your logic is very flawed. Because someone is hired to uphold one law it does not follow that they are responsible for every law. Do you reading. The Flaming Fist are Mercenaries. Not cops. They are a para-military mercenary group, hired by the Dukes of Baldur's gate as a military force. Not a police force.

    As for shouting "I AM THE LAW", does it then follow that all men are scum? Shar-Teel says that quite often. Does that automatically make it true?

    Now, I share you sentiments that for a 'Goodly' party, killing the Flaming Fist probably wouldn't be their first choice. However, I do see many situations where a Neutral party might easily find reason to kill the Fist. Take for instance the matter of Viconia. She is being persecuted by a Flaming Fist officer for apparently no other reason than the color of her skin. he claims that she is a criminal, but can offer no proof or evidence of that. It would appear that he is a bigot plain and simple. Given the choice between killing a potential innocent before she has the opportunity to prove (or disprove) her innocence and killing someone who appears to want to kill her for walking around while Drow, I know who I would side with.
  • HowieHowie Member Posts: 136
    I killed them all.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190



    Your logic is very flawed. Because someone is hired to uphold one law it does not follow that they are responsible for every law. Do you reading. The Flaming Fist are Mercenaries. Not cops. They are a para-military mercenary group, hired by the Dukes of Baldur's gate as a military force. Not a police force.

    As for shouting "I AM THE LAW", does it then follow that all men are scum? Shar-Teel says that quite often. Does that automatically make it true?

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Flaming_Fists
    The Flaming Fist Mercenary Company serve as the city guard. Granted, they aren't officially recognized as the police until after the events of the Baldur's Gate games, but they still serve that role in the games. The Fists attempt to arrest CHARNAME whenever they get on the wrong side of the law. They are, for all intents and purposes, the police.

    Now, I share you sentiments that for a 'Goodly' party, killing the Flaming Fist probably wouldn't be their first choice. However, I do see many situations where a Neutral party might easily find reason to kill the Fist. Take for instance the matter of Viconia. She is being persecuted by a Flaming Fist officer for apparently no other reason than the color of her skin. he claims that she is a criminal, but can offer no proof or evidence of that. It would appear that he is a bigot plain and simple. Given the choice between killing a potential innocent before she has the opportunity to prove (or disprove) her innocence and killing someone who appears to want to kill her for walking around while Drow, I know who I would side with.

    Not the same circumstance. The Flaming Fist officer harassing Viconia is clearly in the wrong. At most, he should detain her, not outright hunt her down and kill her. OP is talking about slaughtering peace officers for asking routine questions at a road block.
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    The Flaming Fist certainly view themselves as a police force:

    "The Flaming Fist aren't mercenaries, they're this city's police force." --Scar
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    IkMarc said:

    I just can't help it. I meet them wandering the maps, they inquire me about something in an authoritarian and offending manner and then I just get pissed off and offend them back. Even with a good party I end up getting into a brawl, killing them and losing reputation (even when we are in the freaking middle of nowhere). It's like they are begging for it.

    "I serve the flaming fist" you are an idiot, mind your own business goddammit........................... BAM

    Does anyone share this with me?


    As stated before by other players :


    He is in charge of law enforcement.
    He is doing his job to ensure that roads are free of bandits.
    He is questioning you (as he is legally entitled to) since you are unknown travelers to him.
    He is not nice because in "medieval settings" people were dangerous and distrustful.


    => I guess you'll shoot IRL the next policeman that dare ask you for your driving license then ...
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Even if I'm playing evil (which I almost never do, but once in a blue) then I tend to play it smart and avoid them. But it can be fun every so often to play it balls to the wall, taking the FF on at every turn. Then you have to deal with their battle mages, who are no joke.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited February 2013


    Not the same circumstance. The Flaming Fist officer harassing Viconia is clearly in the wrong. At most, he should detain her, not outright hunt her down and kill her. OP is talking about slaughtering peace officers for asking routine questions at a road block.

    In what way is it different that one flaming fist wants to kill Viconia and in another a Flaming fist outright accuses you of being a Bandit with zero proof? I'd say it is 100% exactly the same circumstance. The Flaming Fist that approaches you on the way to nashkal leads off with 'you are under arrest' etc.... No proof. No investigation. Simply you are blamed for being there. And if you resist, they will kill you. So how is that different?

    Also, that link merely indicates that they are the city guard. NOT peace officers. Not cops. But Mercenaries that serve as the city guard. I see nothing to disabuse me of the notion that they are jumped up army soldiers. NOT police.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Since the only things that interfere with my quests are either simple-minded animals, mindless vermin, villains, louts or bodysnatchers, logic dictates that should they so much as look at me askance after my typically vitriolic responses then they must be some combination thereof, and must be exterminated with extreme prejudice.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    It might be noted that if the party offers to freely surrender and lay down their arms to the FF south of Beregost assuming that thier innocence will result in an apology once established that the FF threatens to kill the group instead of taking them in thereby earning himself a dirt nap and the party suffers no reputation hit for taking out the rogue "cop".

    Does anyone think the "proper response" would be to accept their fate and die at the hands of "the LAW" and leave it up to their heirs to clear their good name and sue the pants off the local gov't rather than resist?
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    edited February 2013

    IkMarc said:

    I just can't help it. I meet them wandering the maps, they inquire me about something in an authoritarian and offending manner and then I just get pissed off and offend them back. Even with a good party I end up getting into a brawl, killing them and losing reputation (even when we are in the freaking middle of nowhere). It's like they are begging for it.

    "I serve the flaming fist" you are an idiot, mind your own business goddammit........................... BAM

    Does anyone share this with me?


    As stated before by other players :


    He is in charge of law enforcement.
    He is doing his job to ensure that roads are free of bandits.
    He is questioning you (as he is legally entitled to) since you are unknown travelers to him.
    He is not nice because in "medieval settings" people were dangerous and distrustful.


    => I guess you'll shoot IRL the next policeman that dare ask you for your driving license then ...
    Point is still that they are alone in the middle of nowhere questioning a band of armed to the teeth adventurers and they do this in such an offensive manner that, unless you show a lot of restraint and submissiveness, will result into a fight.

    I mean, they are outgunned (lol) and outnumbered, yet they storm you like a berserker if you don't immediately bow down to their questioning under threat.

    => uhm great comparison
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552

    OP is talking about slaughtering peace officers for asking routine questions at a road block.

    No, I am talking about fighting back when an aggressive officer attacks me after I don't crawl up his butt when he intimidates me.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    As stated before by other players :

    He is in charge of law enforcement.
    He is doing his job to ensure that roads are free of bandits.
    He is questioning you (as he is legally entitled to) since you are unknown travelers to him.
    He is not nice because in "medieval settings" people were dangerous and distrustful.

    => I guess you'll shoot IRL the next policeman that dare ask you for your driving license then ...

    Except they aren't cops.

  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    I wholeheartedly agree that the Flaming Fist Mercenaries can be viewed as a kind of cop/army force in this game.
    I agree that they have the right to question me.
    If I'm playing an evil party chances are they won't live long after insulting me.

    If I'm playing neutral then I usually insult them back. The game was designed so that getting arrested means end of game. If you insult them they either arrest you or attack you so it ends in a violent death (their death). Had there been an option where I could pay a reasonable fine (50 or 100 gp) then this would probably be my choice.

    If I'm playing good then it depends. Some of my party's would respond with friendliness and it ends in the guard walking away. Other times my party wont put up with being insulted and why should they? As long as I answer their questions they have no right to be so insulting me and at worst they should arrest me but alas that means end of game. If they draw blades then I have every right to defend myself.
    I know Baldur's Gate is set in a medieval setting but that shouldn't mean that these guards should treat me like dirt. For all they know I could be a noble! In this day and age if the cops are being rude and I am rude to them then they can certainly arrest me but good luck in court! If a cop tries to kill you for being rude to him then you have every right to defend your life and should that result in the accidental death of said cop then you'd still be in the clear.

    Personally though in real life I've had 5 encounters with cops.
    One where I got questioned at home about whether I'd seen anything when a fire erupted in my building. That cop was very polite.
    One where I got searched for weapons and they were very polite and respectful about it.
    One where I was mistaken for a member of a gang of bikers (which was extremely silly considering I look nothing like those guys and I don't own a bike and I was in a car in full work uniform with two other guys wearing the same type of uniforms. One of the cops was very rude and questioned me on the street about it and because he was so rude I was rude to him in my answers. (Not on the personal level though). And the other cop quickly ended the situation in a respectful manner. But had the other one wanted to arrest me I would have gladly come and I would have gone all the way to the court and I would have complained about that particular cops behavior.

    I also had one where I was asked to give my criminal record to a company that was hiring me. Where I'm from you get that from the police office. And while getting it the cop just said "all that paper and not a damn thing on it"... I smiled and said in a jokingly manner: "That is just because you haven't caught me yet!". That actually pissed him off.... Wauw. But all he did was look at me harshly.

    Generally speaking I think the cops in Denmark are very polite as long as you don't piss them off.
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