Vampires killed by Cloud Kill????? (Minor spoilers only please)

the_spyder

So, I was recently playing BG2. I haven't gotten very far (still chapter 1) but there is a Vampire early on (trying to be vague and less spoilerish). So, I spot two people having a fight. I figured that my party didn't "KNOW" what the second combatant was and so just went full throttle. I cast Cloud Kill.

Guild Assassin dies
Vampire Dies!!!

WTFrack? Um, Vampires don't breath, so how was that spell even effective? Also, it definitely means that I will be taking a different tack in later chapters, particularly in one assault.

Anyway, just wanted to share.

atcDave

We need another button labeled "too funny!"

ajwz

So if you are talking about the vampire in irenicus dungeon (which is pretty much the whole of ch1) Then it was probably the elves shooting at it rather than your cloudkill. That is the only vampire that exists in ch1.

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the_spyder

The Vampire in question (yes, that one), was in very good shape when it suddenly Died. It was absolutely a spell effect. From an RP perspective, maybe. But from a game mechanics perspective, my spell killed it.

I can't wait to see if it is the same later on, although I gotta say that is a pretty biggie as far as faux pas. Wouldn't you all say?

PawnSlayer

It would depend on the creature's Hit Dice. I've not got a BG2 game active, but may be worth testing against other vampires. Maybe that one has lower Hit Dice than the others, so falls into insta-kill range? I don't know why that would be the case, though.

Lord_Tansheron

Cloudkill specifically states: "Holding one's breath has no effect on the lethality of the spell"

I think it's safe to assume the vapors are a contact poison of some kind and do not require absorption by the lungs. As such, even creatures that do not need to breathe can be affected by it.

Schneidend

Holding your breath doesn't protect you from Cloudkill. Says so right in the description.

bbear

The thieves who fight the vampire cant even harm it cuz they dont have magical weapons. Are you using the wand of cloudkill or the cloudkill spell? (They have similar but not identical effects).

CamDawg

She's listed as level one, so she fell victim to the low-HD creature slay effect. I'd also like to point out the "Holding one's breath has no effect on the lethality of the spell." line in the spell descript, so it should affect non-breathers regardless.

The vamp being set as level one is a legit bug.

the_spyder

@Schneidend, holding your breath may not help. Primarily because the gas gets in other ways. But having no breath should because there is nothing for the gas to work on.

@bbear, I used the spell.

ajwz

I always try to kill her for the experience.

Also, I'm fairly certain anything that happens within the first chapter of any book or game could not possibly be considered a spoiler. It's a bit like saying "spoiler: Gorion dies"

CamDawg

ajwz said:

I always try to kill her for the experience.

Also, I'm fairly certain anything that happens within the first chapter of any book or game could not possibly be considered a spoiler. It's a bit like saying "spoiler: Gorion dies"

WHAT?!?

Schneidend

the_spyder said:

@Schneidend, holding your breath may not help. Primarily because the gas gets in other ways. But having no breath should because there is nothing for the gas to work on.

@bbear, I used the spell.

The gas is caustic, eating away at anything it comes into contact with. It came in contact with a vampire's flesh, killing the vampire.

ajwz

CamDawg said:

ajwz said:

I always try to kill her for the experience.

Also, I'm fairly certain anything that happens within the first chapter of any book or game could not possibly be considered a spoiler. It's a bit like saying "spoiler: Gorion dies"

WHAT?!?

Hah! Just as I suspected, you've never played it!
I can't believe you were hired by overhaul just because you made a few Call of Duty maps

atcDave

the_spyder said:

@Schneidend, holding your breath may not help. Primarily because the gas gets in other ways. But having no breath should because there is nothing for the gas to work on.

Yeah Vampires should be immune to poison however it's processed in the body. If Cloud Kill were described as an acid I might feel differently, but I'd call that there a glitch.

the_spyder

Schneidend said:

the_spyder said:

@Schneidend, holding your breath may not help. Primarily because the gas gets in other ways. But having no breath should because there is nothing for the gas to work on.

@bbear, I used the spell.

The gas is caustic, eating away at anything it comes into contact with. It came in contact with a vampire's flesh, killing the vampire.

Spell description:

This spell generates a bank of fog, similar to a fog cloud, except that its vapors are yellowish green and poisonous. These vapors automatically kill any living creature with 3 or fewer HD (no save). A living creature with 4 to 6 HD is slain unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save (in which case it takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud).

A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one’s breath doesn’t help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell.

Unlike a fog cloud, the cloudkill moves away from you at 10 feet per round, rolling along the surface of the ground.

Figure out the cloud’s new spread each round based on its new point of origin, which is 10 feet farther away from the point of origin where you cast the spell.

Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Vampires are not living creatures. They are undead.

Schneidend

Then

atcDave said:

Yeah Vampires should be immune to poison however it's processed in the body. If Cloud Kill were described as an acid I might feel differently, but I'd call that there a glitch. One of the big advantages of PNP, a human DM can over-ride such rules over sights. Or if they allow it, they can provide a justification (that can be remembered for later use!)

I'd just say it's magic, and was intentionally designed by the inventor of the spell to affect stuff. I dunno.

@the_spyder
Fair enough. Call it a glitch. Still, I thought all these rigid, structured game mechanics were bad? ;P

the_spyder

Schneidend said:

@the_spyder
Fair enough. Call it a glitch. Still, I thought all these rigid, structured game mechanics were bad? ;P

There you again, arguing Ad Hominem. LOL....

TJ_Hooker

the_spyder said:

Schneidend said:

the_spyder said:

@Schneidend, holding your breath may not help. Primarily because the gas gets in other ways. But having no breath should because there is nothing for the gas to work on.

@bbear, I used the spell.

The gas is caustic, eating away at anything it comes into contact with. It came in contact with a vampire's flesh, killing the vampire.

Spell description:

This spell generates a bank of fog, similar to a fog cloud, except that its vapors are yellowish green and poisonous. These vapors automatically kill any living creature with 3 or fewer HD (no save). A living creature with 4 to 6 HD is slain unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save (in which case it takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud).

A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one’s breath doesn’t help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell.

Unlike a fog cloud, the cloudkill moves away from you at 10 feet per round, rolling along the surface of the ground.

Figure out the cloud’s new spread each round based on its new point of origin, which is 10 feet farther away from the point of origin where you cast the spell.

Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Vampires are not living creatures. They are undead.

I'm assuming that's the description as per P&P? Here's the ingame description:

This spell generates a billowing cloud of ghastly brownish orange vapors that is so toxic as to slay any creature with fewer than 4+1 Hit Dice, cause creatures with 4+1 to 6 Hit Dice to roll saving throws vs. poison with -4 penalties or be slain. Holding one's breath has no effect on the lethality of the spell. Those above 6th level (or 6 Hit Dice) must leave the cloud immediately or suffer 1d10 points of poison damage each round while in the area of effect.

No mention of "living creatures" there.

the_spyder

Well, that explains it. Pity really because there is no reason in my mind why a poison gas would work on the undead (caustic or no).

But that is what happens when they generalize stuff to fit into a game like this.

AHF

I just tested it on real vampires (fed the purple balls into the machine on the second to last level of TOB) and they are immune to cloudkill - both to the instant death effect and to the damage effect.

"Imoen - Vampire is immune to my damage."

the_spyder

@AHF, that could merely be a function of them being above 6th level though.

AHF

the_spyder said:

@AHF, that could merely be a function of them being above 6th level though.

Isn't every vampire other than the one in the intro above 6th level?

the_spyder

Dono. Could be. Now that you mention it, maybe very well. So maybe it is a non-event. The 'First' one you encounter is merely supposed to be a foreshadow of things to come. I just thought it was hilarious and uncharacteristic that the spell would kill her. I always remember being afraid of that battle because of the level drain. But now I am no longer afraid of it. Way to go Cloud Kill!!!!

PawnSlayer

That's the entire point, the one in Irenicus's Dungeon is bugged.

Schneidend

the_spyder said:

There you again, arguing Ad Hominem. LOL....

I was making a joke, but all right.

AHF

More advanced testing:

Fledgling Vampire (CreatureCode: C6VAMP01) = immune to cloudkill
Fledgling Vampire (CreatureCode: VAMFLF01) = immune to cloudkill
Fledgling Vampire (CreatureCode: VAMFLM01) = immune to cloudkill
Fledgling Vampier (CreatureCode: C6VFLM01) = immune to cloudkill

I am going to go out on a limb and say all the real vampires are immune to cloudkill since all the fledgling vampires are.

the_spyder

@Schneidend. So was I. That was the LOL at the end. It's all good.

@AHF. I'd bet that even the fledgling vampires are above 6th. But that is mere speculation.

Anyway, thanks for checking that out. It is good info so I don't end up doing that when it really counts.

AHF

the_spyder said:

@AHF. I'd bet that even the fledgling vampires are above 6th. But that is mere speculation.

Me too. I would bet that all the ones coded for actual gameplay (as opposed to the one in the beginning of the game which doesn't actively engage the player) are immune because of hit dice and poison immunity.

bbear

how do you get the cloudkill spell from irenicus' dungeon anyway? Random drop? replay a character from previous playthrough? Anyway, you shouldnt waste the wand of cloudkill on a solo vampire. A mix of fireballs and magic missiles should do the trick. I always save that wand of cloudkill for the umber hulks in d'An stronghold.