Suitable Class & Party Composition
RnRClown
Member Posts: 182
I purchased BG:EE (via Beamdog) on the 8th of February. One week on and I am still struggling to surpass the character creation screen. My life has been busy this past week, but the little free time I was able to allocate to the game was spent lost in thought while studying class descriptions. Part of the problem is my indecisiveness. I tend to over analyze. The rest boils down to a desire to complete Baldur's Gate for the first time (after numerous attempts dating back to 2000) and carry on (with an imported character) to BG2:EE when it arrives.
I have searched many threads and read many an insightful guide. It has narrowed my options, but still I cannot commit to a decision.
I can highlight what I am not looking for. I do not want to multi-class. I am not against a dual class, but I would prefer a single class kit. I am not interested (at this time) in any of the following classes. Paladin, Cleric, Druid, Mage, Sorcerer, Monk. That leaves Fighter, Ranger, Thief and Bard. Saying that, the Assassin kit is cut off due to its alignment restrictions.
My playstyle would be orientated towards light armor, no shield (in the long term), the ability to engage in melee combat at a moderate level whilst remaining competent with ranged weapons (such as crossbows and throwing daggers). I would not be offering myself as a tank nor one for prolonged engagements in melee range. I much prefer to scout a situation and choose the most opportune moment to act accordingly.
I am not as concerned about power gaming as I am a varied and enjoyable experience. I would like my character to remain relevant throughout the saga, as opposed to their fading into obscurity as a pack mule as the game progresses towards its conclusion.
The two kits that have stood out the most have been the Stalker and the Swashbuckler due to their ability for stealth whilst remaining competent in melee combat. Backstab is variable. If it's an option I'll use it. If it's not part of the deal I will not miss it. Setting traps/snares really appeals to me. Having a racial enemy is also quite appealing. I'm not as concerned with more attacks per round as I am a better chance to roll a successful hit. The desire for a competent level of ability with ranged weapons is somewhat important. I like the idea of being able to offer instant support from most positions, as well as being able to weaken approaching enemies while they're closing the distance where it would be difficult to flank or stealth successfully.
Other kits that continue to force their way into the mix are the Blade, the Bounty Hunter and the Skald. I've came closest to starting the game with a Swashbuckler or a Stalker, though.
Please, help me venture forth and enjoy this great game.
I have searched many threads and read many an insightful guide. It has narrowed my options, but still I cannot commit to a decision.
I can highlight what I am not looking for. I do not want to multi-class. I am not against a dual class, but I would prefer a single class kit. I am not interested (at this time) in any of the following classes. Paladin, Cleric, Druid, Mage, Sorcerer, Monk. That leaves Fighter, Ranger, Thief and Bard. Saying that, the Assassin kit is cut off due to its alignment restrictions.
My playstyle would be orientated towards light armor, no shield (in the long term), the ability to engage in melee combat at a moderate level whilst remaining competent with ranged weapons (such as crossbows and throwing daggers). I would not be offering myself as a tank nor one for prolonged engagements in melee range. I much prefer to scout a situation and choose the most opportune moment to act accordingly.
I am not as concerned about power gaming as I am a varied and enjoyable experience. I would like my character to remain relevant throughout the saga, as opposed to their fading into obscurity as a pack mule as the game progresses towards its conclusion.
The two kits that have stood out the most have been the Stalker and the Swashbuckler due to their ability for stealth whilst remaining competent in melee combat. Backstab is variable. If it's an option I'll use it. If it's not part of the deal I will not miss it. Setting traps/snares really appeals to me. Having a racial enemy is also quite appealing. I'm not as concerned with more attacks per round as I am a better chance to roll a successful hit. The desire for a competent level of ability with ranged weapons is somewhat important. I like the idea of being able to offer instant support from most positions, as well as being able to weaken approaching enemies while they're closing the distance where it would be difficult to flank or stealth successfully.
Other kits that continue to force their way into the mix are the Blade, the Bounty Hunter and the Skald. I've came closest to starting the game with a Swashbuckler or a Stalker, though.
Please, help me venture forth and enjoy this great game.
Post edited by RnRClown on
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Comments
* You can carefully pick off entire groups one by one: in stealth mode reveal just one enemy into the field of view, and fire the bow; rinse and repeat.
Depending on the kit, you are able to melee if neccessary, but still fill the "instant support from any situation" role, too. Bards can be stealthy with their spells (invisibility) and serve as scouts. They are almost like Swashbucklers in that; no backstab, but unlike a thief kit, they have more offensive and supportive options. Throwing Darts are a very popular and efficient ranged proficiency for bards. If you already have your eyes on the Blade kit, I'd say go with it. @Oxford_Guy has posted a lot about Blade builds (I play a jester, but it's not an ideal choice if you plan ahead for BG2) with lots of great advise how to have the most fun with that kit.
The Stalker is, in my opinion, the most fun Ranger build. You're a competent melee combatant, with the additional ability to stealth and backstab. As the saga progresses into BG2, you'll also gain druid spells, which allows for some nice support magic.
Being a Blade in BGEE will allow you to melee effectively, briefly tank as needed, and cast mage spells. They're quite fun, in my experience. But being unable to use most armor while casting spells will make the blade difficult to casually throw into melee, and having fewer proficiency points than the Stalker will make it difficult for your blade to be simultaneously effective with melee weapons and ranged weapons.
Do note that the game engine makes swapping between dual-wielding and ranged weapons a chore, since you need to pause and enter the inventory screen to un-equip the offhand weapon. Stalkers and Blades both tend to dual-wield, so they might not work for your play style. A stalker with a point in single-weapon style could effectively combine backstabbing and ranged combat, if you don't mind the wasted free dual-wield proficiency.
I know you said you weren't interested in multiclassing, but I have to say that I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Multiclasses are some of my favorite characters, as they allow a nice balance of capabilities with very little downside. Being a ranger/cleric, for example, would give you nice melee power combined with support magic, and potentially great ranged capability with a sling if you're willing to deal with the engine restriction mentioned above. A fighter/mage could offer you similar powers to that of a Blade, but with more proficiency points to play with in creation.
The lack of addition attacks means the swashbuckler kit really sucks (I'm speaking from experience here). Choose a dual class fighter(kit)/thief instead.
If you like traps, you should go for Bounty Hunter.
@KidCarnival The advice about the Black Pits is a touch of genius. I may also follow your advice and roll a Blade if I tire of over-analyzing this whole decision. I will play a Blade at some point. The class and that kit in particular are very interesting.
@Madhax I had a look at the choices provided via a multi-class and Fighter/Thief may be the required tonic. I dismissed multi-classes purely on advice garnered around the web in regard to how they are considered (by some) less than stellar in relation to their dual-class counterparts. Opinions vary greatly on this matter, as I have since discovered. Would a Fighter/Thief multi achieve HLA for both classes? Seems a little too powerful!
So...
A Stalker misses out on set traps/snares. They gain backstab, albeit at a reduced rate. I believe they will accumulate a better THAC0 and a higher HP than a Fighter/Thief multi. The Stalker also gains a few tidy buff spells in bonus to their up to 3rd level Druid spells. They can select a racial enemy to grant +4 to hit and damage against a specific enemy (such as those pesky spiders).
A Swashbuckler has no backstab multiplier, but maintains the use of normal traps. Their bonus of +1 to hit and damage every 5 levels, in tandem with a +1 to AC every 5 levels helps offset the lack of weapon mastery and improved THAC0 possessed by a Fighter, for example. Their HP total will never compare, but that is where hide in shadows and/or previously laid traps can come into play.
Both classes are geared towards two weapon style with the Stalker starting with two pips in said category, while the Swashbuckler who starts with no pips in two weapon style can place three pips in total. I cannot be certain that I would opt for two weapon style. I've always preferred two handed weapons, as much for ease of switching to a ranged weapon as anything else. Single weapon style appeals for the same reason.
The ability to specialize (two pips) in ranged weapons applies to the Stalker, but not the Swashbuckler who may only specialize in melee weapons usable by the Thief class. Throwing daggers for a Swashbuckler could be an option. Fighter/Thief multi may specialize across the board, but backstab will only apply to weapons usable by the Thief, if I am not mistaken.
I am going to load up the game and hopefully set the foundations for a playthrough, at last!
It appears that the game simply does not allow a missile weapon to be equipped if the off-hand slot is in use. I disagree with its implimentation in this instance. The off-hand weapon could be a regular dagger/axe while the main-hand is a throwing dagger/axe with a toggle to determine its use. I either imagine it being as so, or remember another game implimenting such; by right-clicking on the main-hand weapon icon to select between melee and missile/thrown.
Has this been asked/discussed before? Is there a possibility it could ever be implimented?
On the subject of my choosing a class; I believe I have settled on a Swashbuckler. I shall dual Imoen early once I have her with enough points in one avenue of thievery skills (meaning I can ignore that area until I have points to burn). I will never be without someone to detect traps, detect illusions, open locks, set traps, etc, while still being able to offer melee and (with inventory management) ranged support with throwing daggers. I was swayed by the ability to put three pips into two weapon fighting, in tandem with the Swashbuckler kit bonuses of +1 to hit, damage, and AC every 5 levels. I think level 10 is the limit for Thieves in BG:EE by which stage I would have 4 profiency points. I need to consider how to spend those.
Swashies are tricky to start at level 1, since they don't get as many proficiency points as a fighter/thief. The kit was originally introduced at BG2, and you'd start at around level 8.
Improving the weapon loadout to cater to your issue and others with the system is a topic of much discussion in the Feature Request subforum, and I'm hopeful we'll see developments in this regard by the time BG2EE rolls around. IWD II had a much better system, for example.
A Blade can of course also cast defensive spells like Mirror Image, Blur, Ghost Armour, Spirit Armour and finally Stoneskin, which should make him/her hard to damage. A blade can also go into defensive spin (though this doesn't help much at low levels) and cast spells, use wands/scrolls and/or ranged weapons, or just wait for the enemies to come to you.
Also, later in the game, if you have a certain NPC in your party, you can pick up a set of elven chain mail, which allows arcane casting.
If you do want to wear the +2 or +3 chainmail (I don't see the point in the +1 chain mail, as you're better off wearing non-magic chainmail and a +1 protection ring/cloak), you can still cast from scrolls and use wands as a bard, so your magic is not totally shut-down, and you can pre-buff with spells before doning your armour, if you've scouted out the encounter first.
Regarding proficiencies, I gave the Blade I'm currently playing Scimitars and two weapon fighting at level one, putting more points into two weapon fighting at level 4 and 8 (and don't forget that a Blade levels up fast), so from level 4 will be able to use the offhand with no penalty to the main. My Blade is Chaotic Neutral, so will be able to use a certain NPC's +3 scimitar in the main hand (but not the other +3 one, wrong alignment) and either the +1 Wakazashi (piercing) or + 2 scimitar (slashing) in the off-hand, depending on whether their wearing plate armour or not.
Regarding ranged weapons, I've been using a long bow (which gives +1 THAC0) at low levels, which doesn't hit often without profiency, but is bettter than nothing, and later in the game the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy (+5 THAC0) will overcome the THAC0 problem for not being proficient in a ranged weapon, and with offensive spin this gets 2 APR, with each hit doing the max 10 damage.
Charname - Swashbuckler
Imoen - Thief/Mage
Khalid - Fighter
Jaheira - Fighter/Druid
I will allocate one final slot, the fifth, and leave the sixth open for alternating the new NPC's and their quests.
I am torn between Minsc, Yeslick or Viconia. Neera could just as easily become the fifth member of the group, leaving the sixth open to cycle Rasaad and Dorn. Xan is an outside possibility, but I have ran with him plenty. I have decided to pass on Branwen, Coran and Kivan. I ran with the each of them on my most recent playthrough (which was not successful) and had a great time, but I'd rather a different path on this adventure. There's also Garrick!
Any advice as to which NPC would best compliment my group? Or simply be the more interesting to play?
Edit: Though if you wind up picking Minsc, I might mention that I find Dorn to be strictly superior to him. Assuming you're okay with the reputation constraint. Dorn is badass.
Neera would add an extra layer of mage support, along with Imoen. Although I may better benefit from including a Cleric as opposed to a second Mage.
I'll keep Dorn for a potential evil or neutral playthrough. Viconia is labelled as evil, but I personally don't consider her as such (long story), thus I have less problem trying to accomodate her. Still, I am looking to include each of the new NPC's for the duration of their quests, so I shall get a glimpse of the powerhouse known as Dorn.
BG:EE didn't happen to include any new ways in which to lower ones reputation? It's so easy to raise it via a donation to a temple. It would have been nice to see a frowned upon evil temple (even if it was out of the way) that one could also donate to, for a greater range of reputation management.
Viconia is a character I really, really like. Her situation is easy to empathize with as it is not too dissimilar to that which Charname finds himself straddled with - having a target painted on their back to draw out would be challengers to ones very existence, struggling to understand their place in the grand scheme of things, etc. The circumstances are different, but the situation is the same.
The Flaming Fist Mercenary attempting to kill Viconia (which would be murder) is more evil than she, in my opinion. I see her alignment as more of a book being judged by its cover. The people of the Sword Coast see a Drow from the Underdark and label her as evil. She is faced with verbal harassment, physical abuse, and even threatened with death.
Furthermore, if Viconia so wished to, she could squash a single Flaming Fist Mercenary with ease. A level 2 Cleric would have access to spells such as Command, Sanctuary, Doom, Hold Person, Spiritual Weapon, etc. With a DEX of 19 she would also be agile enough and quick enough to out maneuver a hulking soldier in cumbersome armor to open up enough distance to get a spell off. She could have rendered him static and slit his throat. Instead she uses her speed and agility to avoid his attack and back away while pleading for mercy. The bothersome reputation management bothers me most in the instance of wishing to recruit Viconia.
When thinking back to my desires for this playthrough, and upon reading this thread again it appears I have veered away from what was most important to me. I have reached level 4 yet I have completely ignored Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. I have not scouted ahead once, nor used stealth to gain the upper-hand in battle. I miss that aspect of adventuring. I have instead played as a secondary melee class with very little variety. I kept a close eye on how to best progress a Swashbuckler so not to make an ineffective protagonist, at the cost of how to progress as a character I would enjoy taking from Candlekeep to the Throne of Bhaal. I have totally alienated myself from what that first paragraph alludes to. Whilst the second paragraph has played a major role, but in reverse. I became too concerned with relevance. I forgot to balance it with staying true to what matters most; enjoyment.
I may find myself back where I started. The character creation screen. There are a few new variables, though. I am now open to the possibility of a multi-class. I am looking most at Fighter/Thief and Mage/Thief. As is clear from the inclusion of Thief in both options, stealth is important (says I, who completely ignored it).
Ranger still comes through as a strong candidate, and was very much highlighted as such by some well respected forum members. I was so close to choosing a Stalker. I may revert to that choice this time around.
I remember being exhausted with the whole character creation process, and at the moment before I decided enough was enough (for the final time) I had just read the opinions of each Thief kit on a website entitled 'The Silver River'. The Swashbuckler received glowing praise. That without doubt swayed my decision. I don't disagree with their thoughts on the kit. It is a fantastic kit, and a kit which I like a lot. It is simply not the correct kit for me, at least not as I opted to progress this build.
Level 5 is a moderate distance away, and I may need at least two levels (with level 6 being a longer journey) in tandem with the Shadow Armor as well as the Boots of Stealth to correct my abandonment of developing stealth. I could yet rescue this playthrough (without an editing program). That is a lot of game time to spend split between a monotonous playstyle and eventual corrective measures to remedy that. It may be best to simply start over and go my own way from the beginning. I think that would be more refreshing, and would reinvigorate my desire to want to play.
It has been therapeutic to share my thoughts. Perhaps they may aid another from making similar mistakes.