@RnRClown Thanks for posting. Your perspective on creating the right PC for your play style is interesting. I know that's something I was struggling with too for my 1st play through of BGEE (I played the original a long time ago), and it's interesting to see other people's thoughts. In the end, I found the right PC for me (at least, for right now, lol) in a kensai/mage dual class, but I tried out other classes (sorcerer, conjurer, etc) with some frustration first.
One thing I found really helpful was this party creation faq over at gamefaqs:
It can be viewed as an advantage of Stalker that they don't get any thief skills apart from stealth. With a Swashbuckler, you feel "oh, I really need Find Traps, Open Locks, etc", and without backstab you feel guilty putting points into stealth.
Something else to consider is Shadowdancer. They really need to dump all their thief skills into stealth, and you need another thief to find traps and stuff. They make good damage dealers and scouts. Unfortunately, they are currently buggy, so it might be wise to wait a patch or two before trying it.
Oh, and give Monk and it's kits a look. They get stealth, which they can only use for scouting. Vanilla monks are a bit weak at low level, but become very powerful in BG2. The new monk kits are a little stronger at low level.
I have found myself a little out of touch with my Swashbuckler. I cannot be sure if it is wishing to try another character (with the option of returning to the present save), or that I have never felt in tune with my choice of class and build (weapon proficiencies and role in the party). I was desperate to begin playing the game. Desperate to move on from the character creation screen. Initially everything was peachy. Yet, I think that happiness was a result of enjoying the game itself, irrespective of class and irrespective of build. Seeing my favorite game in a glorious resolution with some brilliant enhancements and a zoomable camera may have been the overriding factor behind the enjoyment.
When thinking back to my desires for this playthrough, and upon reading this thread again it appears I have veered away from what was most important to me. I have reached level 4 yet I have completely ignored Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. I have not scouted ahead once, nor used stealth to gain the upper-hand in battle. I miss that aspect of adventuring. I have instead played as a secondary melee class with very little variety. I kept a close eye on how to best progress a Swashbuckler so not to make an ineffective protagonist, at the cost of how to progress as a character I would enjoy taking from Candlekeep to the Throne of Bhaal.
My playstyle would be orientated towards light armor, no shield (in the long term), the ability to engage in melee combat at a moderate level whilst remaining competent with ranged weapons (such as crossbows and throwing daggers). I would not be offering myself as a tank nor one for prolonged engagements in melee range. I much prefer to scout a situation and choose the most opportune moment to act accordingly.
I am not as concerned about power gaming as I am a varied and enjoyable experience. I would like my character to remain relevant throughout the saga, as opposed to their fading into obscurity as a pack mule as the game progresses towards its conclusion.
I have totally alienated myself from what that first paragraph alludes to. Whilst the second paragraph has played a major role, but in reverse. I became too concerned with relevance. I forgot to balance it with staying true to what matters most; enjoyment.
I may find myself back where I started. The character creation screen. There are a few new variables, though. I am now open to the possibility of a multi-class. I am looking most at Fighter/Thief and Mage/Thief. As is clear from the inclusion of Thief in both options, stealth is important (says I, who completely ignored it).
Ranger still comes through as a strong candidate, and was very much highlighted as such by some well respected forum members. I was so close to choosing a Stalker. I may revert to that choice this time around.
I remember being exhausted with the whole character creation process, and at the moment before I decided enough was enough (for the final time) I had just read the opinions of each Thief kit on a website entitled 'The Silver River'. The Swashbuckler received glowing praise. That without doubt swayed my decision. I don't disagree with their thoughts on the kit. It is a fantastic kit, and a kit which I like a lot. It is simply not the correct kit for me, at least not as I opted to progress this build.
Level 5 is a moderate distance away, and I may need at least two levels (with level 6 being a longer journey) in tandem with the Shadow Armor as well as the Boots of Stealth to correct my abandonment of developing stealth. I could yet rescue this playthrough (without an editing program). That is a lot of game time to spend split between a monotonous playstyle and eventual corrective measures to remedy that. It may be best to simply start over and go my own way from the beginning. I think that would be more refreshing, and would reinvigorate my desire to want to play.
It has been therapeutic to share my thoughts. Perhaps they may aid another from making similar mistakes.
One of the things you can do is to create and export several characters you're interested in trying, then import them into a saved game and test them. For testing purposes you can also cheat level them up using the CLUA Console. So for example,
0 XP build - import the character into a saved game just outside of Candlekeep.
Level 3 or so - import the character into a saved game appropriate to that level. Maybe against Bassilus. (Here you could just import the 0 XP build and CLUA to level-up to L3.)
I just this very moment realized a potential fatal error in my reasoning with regard to a Swashbuckler as a scout. I failed to take into account that the loss of backstab removes not only the damage multiplier, but also the +4 to hit that a successful backstab gains. I was prepared to accept the loss of the damage multiplier for the balance of better to hit rolls (the kit bonuses of a Swashbuckler) on every attack thereafter a definitive first strike. However, the loss of that +4 to hit when coming out of stealth can nullify the process of sneaking up behind a specific opponent entirely, by causing that first attack to miss while simultaneously alerting the enemy of your position. Especially in the beginning that is a huge loss to the Swashbuckler.
Unless I am mistaken. Is the +4 to hit tied to the backstab component or the stealth component?
It has to be said that the Swashbuckler is not geared towards such a playstyle. It was more my attempt to mould the class into one. Just to safeguard against my potentially misleading any new players.
I shall abandon this Swashbuckler as a scout business. A Swashbuckler is best utilized by placing Move Silently and Hide in Shadows to one side, to instead focus on Find Traps/Disarm Traps, Set Traps and Detect Illusions. All the while being better prepared for remaining in plain sight and engaging in melee combat.
I am now weighing up the choice of either a Stalker or a Fighter/Thief, if not a Mage/Thief. I like the idea of the latter utilizing spells to bring about invisibility and a bonus to strength to aid scouting and backstab severity, as well as crowd control spells if caught in a tight spot. It would also aid early Thief skill distribution. The Fighter/Thief has everything I was looking for originally in my ill-fated Swashbuckler adventure, and if I hadn't believed what I'd read about multi-class being horrible, I may have opted for one. The Stalker is more of a role-playing choice. Nevertheless, the Stalker does have its own benefits, such as racial enemy and a more focused dedication to stealth, with a few very tidy buff spells. There's also the free specialization in two weapon style.
I've had a wee spin with each. I've looked much farther ahead to see how they all progress. And although I am still as torn as to which to choose, it appears that I cannot go wrong with any of the three. They all encompass a large degree of what I am looking for.
I do have one more query, though. I have read a lot about late game (over the entire saga) enemies being immune to backstab and also being able to see through stealth. Without giving too much away, would a Stalker, a Fighter/Thief and a Mage/Thief still be able to combat such enemies? When it is talked about it is put forth to a degree that such classes may be left crippled and helpless. I assume the Mage/Thief could just hurl damage spells (memorized, scrolls, wands) until the cows come home. That's some nice versatility. But, I worry about the Stalker and Fighter/Thief if certain enemies can render them next to useless.
I do have one more query, though. I have read a lot about late game (over the entire saga) enemies being immune to backstab and also being able to see through stealth. Without giving too much away, would a Stalker, a Fighter/Thief and a Mage/Thief still be able to combat such enemies?
Absolutely. As you say, a Mage/Thief has plenty of spells they can fall back on in such a case, and both Stalkers and Fighter/Thieves are plenty dangerous in a straight-up fight by the time those sorts of enemies become common enough to be noticeable (i.e. ToB). It's more of a concern for single-class Thieves, who stand to have most of their schtick nullified along with their High Level Abilities; A Stalker or Fighter/Thief still has Whirlwind/Critical Strike/Hardiness to fall back on against enemies that cannot be backstabbed or trapped.
You know, contrary to what I had read I was actually surprised at the number of high level enemies that I was able to backstab in SoA/ToB. The other day I came across an old post I had made about this in another forum where I commented on that. I'm not sure if I had SCSII installed or not, but I usually do (or did back when I played the entire saga via the BGT platform all the time). But I do now recollect that it was a very small number that I was unable to backstab--literally just a few. I was able to backstab liches for example.
You know, contrary to what I had read I was actually surprised at the number of high level enemies that I was able to backstab in SoA/ToB. The other day I came across an old post I had made about this in another forum where I commented on that. I'm not sure if I had SCSII installed or not, but I usually do (or did back when I played the entire saga via the BGT platform all the time). But I do now recollect that it was a very small number that I was unable to backstab--literally just a few. I was able to backstab liches for example.
You know, contrary to what I had read I was actually surprised at the number of high level enemies that I was able to backstab in SoA/ToB. The other day I came across an old post I had made about this in another forum where I commented on that. I'm not sure if I had SCSII installed or not, but I usually do (or did back when I played the entire saga via the BGT platform all the time). But I do now recollect that it was a very small number that I was unable to backstab--literally just a few. I was able to backstab liches for example.
That's odd - liches are supposed to be immune to backstab, so there is a bug somewhere.
You know, contrary to what I had read I was actually surprised at the number of high level enemies that I was able to backstab in SoA/ToB. The other day I came across an old post I had made about this in another forum where I commented on that. I'm not sure if I had SCSII installed or not, but I usually do (or did back when I played the entire saga via the BGT platform all the time). But I do now recollect that it was a very small number that I was unable to backstab--literally just a few. I was able to backstab liches for example.
Which has the best range; a light crossbow, throwing darts or throwing daggers? I am not interested in bows (short or long) or heavy crossbows, but their range may be of use to another user. It is a role-playing decision more than any other, thus my shunning the composite longbow.
I may take proficiency in a missile variant for scouting purposes. Three opponents. Cripple one from afar. Break line of sight to enter stealth, or pop invisibility (spell or potion). Backstab a different of the hostile three to make that three become two. Attack the previously wounded foe who was softened up with ranged weapons to swiftly whittle two down to one. Face the final enemy toe to toe to grant them a brave death.
It is down to the Stalker and the Fighter/Thief. I have both competing in the black pits, with one of the default Mage characters, as well as a Cleric. It is a fun mode, and well presented. It is also great for instances such as this, where one can take characters for a test drive. Brilliant!
Would anyone care to share their thoughts on which Stronghold they found to be the most/least enjoyable between Fighter, Thief and Ranger?
As a Fighter/Thief multi-class I believe I would be able to choose either of the two? As a Stalker, I would fold into the Ranger Stronghold.
I am loving Jagan Battleforge (a default Cleric build) in this Black Pits run. It had been quite some time since I last recruited a Cleric. As a result I forgot just how tidy their spells can be. The buffs are great, but I'm a stickler for crowd control. From 'Command" to 'Hold Person' to 'Silence' the battlefield is in the palm of their hands.
The Fighter stronghold has a longer quest line than the Thief or the Ranger, which isn't necessarily a good thing or bad thing in and of itself. The Fighter and Ranger strongholds give similar amounts of experience, but the Ranger stronghold has much fewer events. The Thief stronghold has even fewer, but can be the best money-maker out of any of the strongholds. So Fighter's good if you want more stuff to do, Ranger if you want to get it over with in a timely fashion, and Thief if you like to take your time and want to scrounge up all the gold you can.
Fighter/Thieves do essentially get to choose between either stronghold; I believe whichever quest you finish first is the one you get, but it's been a while since I've played without the Tweak that lets multi/dual-class characters have each stronghold.
Comments
One thing I found really helpful was this party creation faq over at gamefaqs:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/mac/678625-baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition/faqs/65403
Maybe it'll help you too. Good luck!
Something else to consider is Shadowdancer. They really need to dump all their thief skills into stealth, and you need another thief to find traps and stuff. They make good damage dealers and scouts. Unfortunately, they are currently buggy, so it might be wise to wait a patch or two before trying it.
Oh, and give Monk and it's kits a look. They get stealth, which they can only use for scouting. Vanilla monks are a bit weak at low level, but become very powerful in BG2. The new monk kits are a little stronger at low level.
0 XP build - import the character into a saved game just outside of Candlekeep.
Level 3 or so - import the character into a saved game appropriate to that level. Maybe against Bassilus. (Here you could just import the 0 XP build and CLUA to level-up to L3.)
Unless I am mistaken. Is the +4 to hit tied to the backstab component or the stealth component?
It has to be said that the Swashbuckler is not geared towards such a playstyle. It was more my attempt to mould the class into one. Just to safeguard against my potentially misleading any new players.
I shall abandon this Swashbuckler as a scout business. A Swashbuckler is best utilized by placing Move Silently and Hide in Shadows to one side, to instead focus on Find Traps/Disarm Traps, Set Traps and Detect Illusions. All the while being better prepared for remaining in plain sight and engaging in melee combat.
I am now weighing up the choice of either a Stalker or a Fighter/Thief, if not a Mage/Thief. I like the idea of the latter utilizing spells to bring about invisibility and a bonus to strength to aid scouting and backstab severity, as well as crowd control spells if caught in a tight spot. It would also aid early Thief skill distribution. The Fighter/Thief has everything I was looking for originally in my ill-fated Swashbuckler adventure, and if I hadn't believed what I'd read about multi-class being horrible, I may have opted for one. The Stalker is more of a role-playing choice. Nevertheless, the Stalker does have its own benefits, such as racial enemy and a more focused dedication to stealth, with a few very tidy buff spells. There's also the free specialization in two weapon style.
I've had a wee spin with each. I've looked much farther ahead to see how they all progress. And although I am still as torn as to which to choose, it appears that I cannot go wrong with any of the three. They all encompass a large degree of what I am looking for.
I do have one more query, though. I have read a lot about late game (over the entire saga) enemies being immune to backstab and also being able to see through stealth. Without giving too much away, would a Stalker, a Fighter/Thief and a Mage/Thief still be able to combat such enemies? When it is talked about it is put forth to a degree that such classes may be left crippled and helpless. I assume the Mage/Thief could just hurl damage spells (memorized, scrolls, wands) until the cows come home. That's some nice versatility. But, I worry about the Stalker and Fighter/Thief if certain enemies can render them next to useless.
I may take proficiency in a missile variant for scouting purposes. Three opponents. Cripple one from afar. Break line of sight to enter stealth, or pop invisibility (spell or potion). Backstab a different of the hostile three to make that three become two. Attack the previously wounded foe who was softened up with ranged weapons to swiftly whittle two down to one. Face the final enemy toe to toe to grant them a brave death.
It is down to the Stalker and the Fighter/Thief. I have both competing in the black pits, with one of the default Mage characters, as well as a Cleric. It is a fun mode, and well presented. It is also great for instances such as this, where one can take characters for a test drive. Brilliant!
Pretty sure any version of crossbow would have better range than thrown weaps.
As a Fighter/Thief multi-class I believe I would be able to choose either of the two? As a Stalker, I would fold into the Ranger Stronghold.
I am loving Jagan Battleforge (a default Cleric build) in this Black Pits run. It had been quite some time since I last recruited a Cleric. As a result I forgot just how tidy their spells can be. The buffs are great, but I'm a stickler for crowd control. From 'Command" to 'Hold Person' to 'Silence' the battlefield is in the palm of their hands.
Fighter/Thieves do essentially get to choose between either stronghold; I believe whichever quest you finish first is the one you get, but it's been a while since I've played without the Tweak that lets multi/dual-class characters have each stronghold.