@Lemernis - Thanks so much for describing the method you are using. It seems very well thought out, and I appreciate it much more now. I will be reading the special thread that you set up to see how it is working out. If one follows your method very strictly I can see where it can remove much of the metagaming that most of us fall into, and which I call the ultimate cheat that leads to boredom.
It's interesting the temptation that is created when one has too much knowledge of the game. For instance (I think) there's a single character that shows up on the map with the xvarts village. If you're roleplaying a good character, I think the dialogue proceeds in a way where you don't attack him, but a meta-gamer knows that he might have a +2 halberd on him and is oh so tempted to get it. But, I think in the long run, youre method will be much more satisfying.
Thanks for appreciating what I meant about the value of a mod that would statistically modify where the magic items are, where NPCs are met or even the quality of monsters. It would create substantial replay value. But still I admire your method for eliminating meta-gaming and injecting a new breathe of reality into the game.
One additional question, which I'm sure your thread covers. If your Charname dies in an an encounter somewhat deep into the game, how do you handle it? If someone like Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid is in the party I would automatically reload and get to a temple to pay for a resurrection. If they are not, then roleplay whether the other NPCs would do it, even perhaps using your cards or dice.
Thanks so much. You've definitely added something.
I have yet to get bored of these games. I am pretty particular about which rpgs I like and anything from the Infinity Engine is up there with the best. I just finished this particular game with a 2 man party, My vanilla elven thief, and Kivan. Sarevok didn't stand a chance and give it a day and I will be onto the next game or repeating this game again. You guys really did a good job with this game and you get props for that
... One additional question, which I'm sure your thread covers. If your Charname dies in an an encounter somewhat deep into the game, how do you handle it? If someone like Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid is in the party I would automatically reload and get to a temple to pay for a resurrection. If they are not, then roleplay whether the other NPCs would do it, even perhaps using your cards or dice.
The approach I've adopted for this type of game is minimal-reload: only if the PC dies will I reload. (The other exception would be if that something buggy happens, but happily I've not seen any bugs in EE for a very long time; and if I did it would have to warrant a reload. Come to think of it, if a bug shook things up and made something unusual take place, then I would actually probably welcome that and RP on it.)
When the PC dies I just keep it simple and reload from the quicksave before the encounter.
When a NPC dies, I roleplay who, if anyone, would be willing to carry a body back to a temple. The game engine gives you a pass on this, but if you were really there in that world you would actually have to lug a corpse over your shoulder for a full day of hiking through the wilderness. Or take turns doing that. And some party members aren't strong or big enough to do it. (The Strength spell and potions should be used here, if available: but if the size ratio makes someone too unwieldy to carry I don't see it succeeding.) And the NPCs each have their own reactions to the death. They may not be in agreement that the slain party member should be raised to begin with. If they are independent enough and/or feel strongly enough about it, they would refuse. But seriously, carrying a corpse in some cases literally for days through a hostile wilderness? Sometimes devotions are fierce, but that may be more than they could actually handle.
It occurs to me now that if no Strength spell or potions are available, and only average Strength party members support carrying a fallen NPC to a temple over a long distance, then next time this happens I will probably turn a card as to whether the characters that are carrying the body are (whatever their feelings) forced to give up along the way because it pushes them beyond their physical endurance. I'd turn the card before actually traveling between the maps in question. If the outcome is that they can't continue carrying the body, then the NPC gets removed and he or she is gone for good.
I've only actually finished ToB twice...every other time I was never able to push myself to go that far. By the end of BG2, that's usually when I'm done with a character. The first time was with a pre-generated ToB character, just to do the expansion. The second time was with a custom party of 6 specialist mages, each of a different school of magic. I took them through BG1, BG2, and ToB.
... One additional question, which I'm sure your thread covers. If your Charname dies in an an encounter somewhat deep into the game, how do you handle it? If someone like Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid is in the party I would automatically reload and get to a temple to pay for a resurrection. If they are not, then roleplay whether the other NPCs would do it, even perhaps using your cards or dice.
The approach I've adopted for this type of game is minimal-reload: only if the PC dies will I reload. (The other exception would be if that something buggy happens, but happily I've not seen any bugs in EE for a very long time; and if I did it would have to warrant a reload. Come to think of it, if a bug shook things up and made something unusual take place, then I would actually probably welcome that and RP on it.)
When the PC dies I just keep it simple and reload from the quicksave before the encounter.
When a NPC dies, I roleplay who, if anyone, would be willing to carry a body back to a temple. The game engine gives you a pass on this, but if you were really there in that world you would actually have to lug a corpse over your shoulder for a full day of hiking through the wilderness. Or take turns doing that. And some party members aren't strong or big enough to do it. (The Strength spell and potions should be used here, if available: but if the size ratio makes someone too unwieldy to carry I don't see it succeeding.) And the NPCs each have their own reactions to the death. They may not be in agreement that the slain party member should be raised to begin with. If they are independent enough and/or feel strongly enough about it, they would refuse. But seriously, carrying a corpse in some cases literally for days through a hostile wilderness? Sometimes devotions are fierce, but that may be more than they could actually handle.
It occurs to me now that if no Strength spell or potions are available, and only average Strength party members support carrying a fallen NPC to a temple over a long distance, then next time this happens I will probably turn a card as to whether the characters that are carrying the body are (whatever their feelings) forced to give up along the way because it pushes them beyond their physical endurance. I'd turn the card before actually traveling between the maps in question. If the outcome is that they can't continue carrying the body, then the NPC gets removed and he or she is gone for good.
Don't forget that hoisting the body up on someones shoulder or balancing it between two or more characters is not the only option available to them - a travois is very simple to make in a short period of time (a couple stout poles with a few crossbars lashed to it perhaps covered by a robe or blanket) and it's weight could be shared by two or possibly three people and/or alternated between the group.
(I think it's safe to assume the party would carry rope and perhaps even a small axe for camping purposes - and even without an axe dead wood could be broken)
It seems much of the terrain needed to be covered is relatively open and even when not flat generally offers decent trails that would offer little hindrance to dragging such a conveyance should the dead NPC be of value to the party.
One should probably also consider the effect on the remaining companions morale should a dead companion thats capable of being raised is instead left behind becuase it might be a struggle to return them to a temple. Party members without strong bonds to the leader or the overall quest may lose interest in following a path that may end up with them being left in the same manner.
In BG1 it is usually when I get to Ulgoth's Beard because even though there's a variety of things to do, I don't feel that sense of open ended travel. You get teleported to places instantly rather than having to trek through the plains or city districts.
In BG2 it is the whole quest to Spellhold. I love traveling back and forth through the districts of Athkatla and the regions beyond the city. But having to go to the Nelanther Isles, Spellhold, Underdark, etc... with little to no variation just makes me feel like I'm playing Icewind Dale.
In ToB it is pretty early on when I leave Saradush. I'm a sucker for cities.
I've only actually finished ToB twice...every other time I was never able to push myself to go that far. By the end of BG2, that's usually when I'm done with a character. The first time was with a pre-generated ToB character, just to do the expansion. The second time was with a custom party of 6 specialist mages, each of a different school of magic. I took them through BG1, BG2, and ToB.
Just curious if you did the Watcher's Gate section of TOB with the dead magic areas. I would think those would be very challenging for that party.
... Don't forget that hoisting the body up on someones shoulder or balancing it between two or more characters is not the only option available to them - a travois is very simple to make in a short period of time (a couple stout poles with a few crossbars lashed to it perhaps covered by a robe or blanket) and it's weight could be shared by two or possibly three people and/or alternated between the group.
(I think it's safe to assume the party would carry rope and perhaps even a small axe for camping purposes - and even without an axe dead wood could be broken)
It seems much of the terrain needed to be covered is relatively open and even when not flat generally offers decent trails that would offer little hindrance to dragging such a conveyance should the dead NPC be of value to the party.
One should probably also consider the effect on the remaining companions morale should a dead companion thats capable of being raised is instead left behind becuase it might be a struggle to return them to a temple. Party members without strong bonds to the leader or the overall quest may lose interest in following a path that may end up with them being left in the same manner.
Using a travois is a neat idea. And that's a really good observation about variable morale reactions to not resurrecting fallen comrades. Thanks, I'll definitely incorporate that into my own game!
... One additional question, which I'm sure your thread covers. If your Charname dies in an an encounter somewhat deep into the game, how do you handle it? If someone like Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid is in the party I would automatically reload and get to a temple to pay for a resurrection. If they are not, then roleplay whether the other NPCs would do it, even perhaps using your cards or dice.
The approach I've adopted for this type of game is minimal-reload: only if the PC dies will I reload. (The other exception would be if that something buggy happens, but happily I've not seen any bugs in EE for a very long time; and if I did it would have to warrant a reload. Come to think of it, if a bug shook things up and made something unusual take place, then I would actually probably welcome that and RP on it.)
When the PC dies I just keep it simple and reload from the quicksave before the encounter.
When a NPC dies, I roleplay who, if anyone, would be willing to carry a body back to a temple. The game engine gives you a pass on this, but if you were really there in that world you would actually have to lug a corpse over your shoulder for a full day of hiking through the wilderness. Or take turns doing that. And some party members aren't strong or big enough to do it. (The Strength spell and potions should be used here, if available: but if the size ratio makes someone too unwieldy to carry I don't see it succeeding.) And the NPCs each have their own reactions to the death. They may not be in agreement that the slain party member should be raised to begin with. If they are independent enough and/or feel strongly enough about it, they would refuse. But seriously, carrying a corpse in some cases literally for days through a hostile wilderness? Sometimes devotions are fierce, but that may be more than they could actually handle.
It occurs to me now that if no Strength spell or potions are available, and only average Strength party members support carrying a fallen NPC to a temple over a long distance, then next time this happens I will probably turn a card as to whether the characters that are carrying the body are (whatever their feelings) forced to give up along the way because it pushes them beyond their physical endurance. I'd turn the card before actually traveling between the maps in question. If the outcome is that they can't continue carrying the body, then the NPC gets removed and he or she is gone for good.
Sounds like you need a Bag of Holding! (Or should I say "Coffin of Holding"?)
... One additional question, which I'm sure your thread covers. If your Charname dies in an an encounter somewhat deep into the game, how do you handle it? If someone like Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid is in the party I would automatically reload and get to a temple to pay for a resurrection. If they are not, then roleplay whether the other NPCs would do it, even perhaps using your cards or dice.
The approach I've adopted for this type of game is minimal-reload: only if the PC dies will I reload. (The other exception would be if that something buggy happens, but happily I've not seen any bugs in EE for a very long time; and if I did it would have to warrant a reload. Come to think of it, if a bug shook things up and made something unusual take place, then I would actually probably welcome that and RP on it.)
When the PC dies I just keep it simple and reload from the quicksave before the encounter.
When a NPC dies, I roleplay who, if anyone, would be willing to carry a body back to a temple. The game engine gives you a pass on this, but if you were really there in that world you would actually have to lug a corpse over your shoulder for a full day of hiking through the wilderness. Or take turns doing that. And some party members aren't strong or big enough to do it. (The Strength spell and potions should be used here, if available: but if the size ratio makes someone too unwieldy to carry I don't see it succeeding.) And the NPCs each have their own reactions to the death. They may not be in agreement that the slain party member should be raised to begin with. If they are independent enough and/or feel strongly enough about it, they would refuse. But seriously, carrying a corpse in some cases literally for days through a hostile wilderness? Sometimes devotions are fierce, but that may be more than they could actually handle.
It occurs to me now that if no Strength spell or potions are available, and only average Strength party members support carrying a fallen NPC to a temple over a long distance, then next time this happens I will probably turn a card as to whether the characters that are carrying the body are (whatever their feelings) forced to give up along the way because it pushes them beyond their physical endurance. I'd turn the card before actually traveling between the maps in question. If the outcome is that they can't continue carrying the body, then the NPC gets removed and he or she is gone for good.
Sounds like you need a Bag of Holding! (Or should I say "Coffin of Holding"?)
Comments
It's interesting the temptation that is created when one has too much knowledge of the game. For instance (I think) there's a single character that shows up on the map with the xvarts village. If you're roleplaying a good character, I think the dialogue proceeds in a way where you don't attack him, but a meta-gamer knows that he might have a +2 halberd on him and is oh so tempted to get it. But, I think in the long run, youre method will be much more satisfying.
Thanks for appreciating what I meant about the value of a mod that would statistically modify where the magic items are, where NPCs are met or even the quality of monsters. It would create substantial replay value. But still I admire your method for eliminating meta-gaming and injecting a new breathe of reality into the game.
One additional question, which I'm sure your thread covers. If your Charname dies in an an encounter somewhat deep into the game, how do you handle it? If someone like Imoen, Jaheira or Khalid is in the party I would automatically reload and get to a temple to pay for a resurrection. If they are not, then roleplay whether the other NPCs would do it, even perhaps using your cards or dice.
Thanks so much. You've definitely added something.
When the PC dies I just keep it simple and reload from the quicksave before the encounter.
When a NPC dies, I roleplay who, if anyone, would be willing to carry a body back to a temple. The game engine gives you a pass on this, but if you were really there in that world you would actually have to lug a corpse over your shoulder for a full day of hiking through the wilderness. Or take turns doing that. And some party members aren't strong or big enough to do it. (The Strength spell and potions should be used here, if available: but if the size ratio makes someone too unwieldy to carry I don't see it succeeding.) And the NPCs each have their own reactions to the death. They may not be in agreement that the slain party member should be raised to begin with. If they are independent enough and/or feel strongly enough about it, they would refuse. But seriously, carrying a corpse in some cases literally for days through a hostile wilderness? Sometimes devotions are fierce, but that may be more than they could actually handle.
It occurs to me now that if no Strength spell or potions are available, and only average Strength party members support carrying a fallen NPC to a temple over a long distance, then next time this happens I will probably turn a card as to whether the characters that are carrying the body are (whatever their feelings) forced to give up along the way because it pushes them beyond their physical endurance. I'd turn the card before actually traveling between the maps in question. If the outcome is that they can't continue carrying the body, then the NPC gets removed and he or she is gone for good.
(I think it's safe to assume the party would carry rope and perhaps even a small axe for camping purposes - and even without an axe dead wood could be broken)
It seems much of the terrain needed to be covered is relatively open and even when not flat generally offers decent trails that would offer little hindrance to dragging such a conveyance should the dead NPC be of value to the party.
One should probably also consider the effect on the remaining companions morale should a dead companion thats capable of being raised is instead left behind becuase it might be a struggle to return them to a temple. Party members without strong bonds to the leader or the overall quest may lose interest in following a path that may end up with them being left in the same manner.
In BG2 it is the whole quest to Spellhold. I love traveling back and forth through the districts of Athkatla and the regions beyond the city. But having to go to the Nelanther Isles, Spellhold, Underdark, etc... with little to no variation just makes me feel like I'm playing Icewind Dale.
In ToB it is pretty early on when I leave Saradush. I'm a sucker for cities.