Playing a cleric to make up for a lack of quality clerics?

PugPug

It seems like it might not be a bad idea. Across the whole series, pure-class clerics are pretty rare, and stats aren't that great on even the multi- and dual-class ones. And Viconia is evil, which makes her Turn Undead ability not nearly as much fun. Nothing like popping a lich in TOB with Turn Undead.

It's a very stat-intensive class, and CHARNAME has great stats unless you choose not to.

Not to mention being able to carry the benefit from all of those tomes of wisdom into the next game.

But how much fun are they to play? I would imagine that being able to do so many different things -- tank, heal, buff, some offensive magic -- would be entertaining.

Oxford_Guy

Clerics do get lots of spells, but IMHO compared to the mage ones, they aren't as fun to use and usually take much longer to cast. An advantage of a CHARNAME Cleric, though, is that you can select a kit, all of which are better than the vanilla cleric. I did play one game as an evil halfling Cleric of Talos, which was quite fun.

atcDave

I've played clerics quite often; including a couple of Clerics of Lathander, a multi cleric/ranger, and a fighter dualed to cleric at 3rd level. I've enjoyed all of them. But you do have to accept that your PC will be more about buffing and healing while NPCs do most of the death dealing.
But that said, Clerics can cause significant mayhem too. From Command, to Holy Smiting, to Holy Word, to Turn Undead, clerics can tip the odds when needed. I think of them as a subtle character class, but subtle does not have to mean boring!

ScytheKnight

If you plan on playing a cleric through both games I have four words for you...

Flail

Of

The

Ages.

Oxford_Guy

ScytheKnight said:

If you plan on playing a cleric through both games I have four words for you...

Flail

Of

The

Ages.

And:

Crom

Faeyr

ajwz

Oxford_Guy said:

ScytheKnight said:

If you plan on playing a cleric through both games I have four words for you...

Flail

Of

The

Ages.

And:

Crom

Faeyr

dont

forget

Mace

of

Disruption

IkMarc

ajwz said:

Oxford_Guy said:

ScytheKnight said:

If you plan on playing a cleric through both games I have four words for you...

Flail

Of

The

Ages.

And:

Crom

Faeyr

dont

forget

Mace

of

Disruption

Why

are

we

writing

like

this

?

Teeq

I really enjoy divine spellcasters - used both clerics and druids, and while both are fun I always find them a little lacking. When I'm a cleric I miss Insect Plague (one of my favorite spells in the game) and when I'm a druid I miss spells like DUHM and other fun buffs.

For that reason, I'm going to start the game as a Beastmaster and dual to a cleric ASAP to get ALL divine spells. My RP concept is that the armor and weapon restrictions make CHARNAME feel like an exceptionally gifted druid that draws power from both nature and a deity. Plus, I get a familiar!

Oxford_Guy

Teeq said:

I really enjoy divine spellcasters - used both clerics and druids, and while both are fun I always find them a little lacking. When I'm a cleric I miss Insect Plague (one of my favorite spells in the game) and when I'm a druid I miss spells like DUHM and other fun buffs.

For that reason, I'm going to start the game as a Beastmaster and dual to a cleric ASAP to get ALL divine spells. My RP concept is that the armor and weapon restrictions make CHARNAME feel like an exceptionally gifted druid that draws power from both nature and a deity. Plus, I get a familiar!

Nice concept, one question - a druid is meant to be True Neutral, whereas a Ranger has to be Good, so how will you reconcile this difference? Will you just pick Neutral Good as the most neutral of the good alignments?

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Madhax

I don't see much wrong with Anomen. He's basically a pure-class cleric, being dualled so early, and his wisdom after his personal quest is adequate. Good physical stats, too.

Fiach

What would be a good (evil) Cleric build (stats/proffs) and would it be overkill to have Vic in the team as well. I would have Edwin, Dorn, Shar-Teel (dual wield) and Imoen (as a Thief)?.

Gallowglass

If you're talking pureclass Cleric, then you're looking for 16 CON (which is enough to maximise HP as a non-warrior class), 18 DEX (you always want that with every character to maximise AC, and ranged attacks when applicable), then as much as you can roll in STR (for attacking power) and WIS (to get bonus spells). INT and CHA don't much matter to a Cleric.

It'd be viable to take Viconia as well if you want, but generally you don't need two Clerics in one party, so you'd probably be better off taking someone else instead. For example, a second Mage is generally more useful than a second Cleric. Xan or Neera will work with an Evil party (they're Neutral), or for all-Evil you could take Xzar & Montaron (instead of Imoen, since Monty is a Fighter/Thief).

Fafnir

Oxford_Guy said:

ScytheKnight said:

If you plan on playing a cleric through both games I have four words for you...

Flail

Of

The

Ages.

And:

Crom

Faeyr

Crom Faeyr costs a ton of useful stuff to make. I don't think it's worth it when a cleric can already DUHM to buff his strength. I'd leave it as an off-hand weapon for fighters.

helmo1977

Having a pure cleric as a human is a waste if you plan on playing the whole saga. Start as a fighter and then dual class to cleric at 9th . That gives you more hit points and far better combat abilities for just a few hours of running arpund doing nothing

Oxford_Guy

helmo1977 said:

Having a pure cleric as a human is a waste if you plan on playing the whole saga. Start as a fighter and then dual class to cleric at 9th . That gives you more hit points and far better combat abilities for just a few hours of running arpund doing nothing

Though a shorty cleric with a kit can be nice for the saving throw bonuses, and halflings get +1 THAC0 with slings :-)

Gallowglass

@Fafnir makes a good point. Crom Faeyr is rather wasted on a pureclass Cleric who only gets 1 attack per round. It's more productively wielded by a warrior type (or a Fighter/Cleric) who gets more attacks per round. For example, either as a mainhand weapon for a Fighter/Cleric (such as Anomen) who can put two (or more) proficiency points in Warhammers, or as the offhand weapon for a dual-wielding warrior who has at least one proficiency point in Warhammers and two (or more) points in whatever he's using in his mainhand.

I agree with the other posters above: the Flail of Ages and the Mace of Disruption are outstanding Cleric weapons. Again, though, both are even better if you can strike at more than 1 APR. In general, Fighter/Clerics (dual or multi) have a pretty considerable combat advantage over pureclass Clerics.

Teeq

Oxford_Guy said:

Nice concept, one question - a druid is meant to be True Neutral, whereas a Ranger has to be Good, so how will you reconcile this difference? Will you just pick Neutral Good as the most neutral of the good alignments?

Yeah, neutral good would make the most sense given my options... but man, do I want a faerie dragon as my familiar! I'll have to think on it. Will my powergamer side or my roleplayer side prevail? We shall see...

shawnppickett

Clerics are certainly badass to play, but lets face it, with scrolls and potions, you can safely ditch NPC clerics and add another mage of sword in their place. If you want to play a cleric for the sake of playing a cleric go for it. Of course, if all else fails, find a cleric, then use shadowkeeper to mod him/her to fit how you want....

Fardragon

Gallowglass said:

both are even better if you can strike at more than 1 APR.

Boon of Lathander gives +1 APR.

FinneousPJ

Human Ranger -> Cleric is amazing. Even Ranger 2 -> Cleric works so you don't have to wait forever. 2 pips in Flails and 3 in TWF. Boosts your melee capability and gives you all the druid spells.

Oxford_Guy

FinneousPJ said:

Human Ranger -> Cleric is amazing. Even Ranger 2 -> Cleric works so you don't have to wait forever. 2 pips in Flails and 3 in TWF. Boosts your melee capability and gives you all the druid spells.

Indeed, though as pointed out elsewhere, strictly speaking it's bugged how Ranger/Clerics and Ranger>Clerics work - they should only get Level 1-3 Druid spells, and therese shouldn't be available until your ranger is level 8.... If you want to play more strictly you could of course limit yourself in this way, though I'm guessing most people probably wouldn't want to.

Nifft

Ranger 3 -> Cleric is great.
Ranger 3 gives you your 3rd pip in TWF.

helmo1977

I would not give a cleric TWF. IMHO a cleric is more important at the spells department than at the combat one (at high levels) even if that cleric is also a third level ranger. As spells is the most important part, the more AC the better, to avoid your spells being disrupted. And, for that, a shield is your best friend. High end level shields improve your AC in 4 or 5 points.

FinneousPJ

Nifft said:

Ranger 3 -> Cleric is great.
Ranger 3 gives you your 3rd pip in TWF.

IIRC the game is bugged so you can put the 3rd TWF on a Cleric level if you only do Ranger 2.

Oxford_Guy

FinneousPJ said:

Nifft said:

Ranger 3 -> Cleric is great.
Ranger 3 gives you your 3rd pip in TWF.

IIRC the game is bugged so you can put the 3rd TWF on a Cleric level if you only do Ranger 2.

Indeed, but only after you get your ranger levels back, otherwise any pips put into TWF as a cleric before then are lost. BTW is the ability to put more than one point into proficiencies for your second class *after* dualling and getting your fighter levels back considered a bug then? I've often thought being able to do this seemed wrong, as your character should really stop improving as a fighter/ranger after dualling.

Eudaemonium

I will be sad if it is a bug, even if it is overpowered. I rather liked it as a feature.

FinneousPJ

Yes, I believe it's a bug. Semantics really, but I guess you could call it a feature until it's on the list for "to be fixed"

Eudaemonium

But it isn't on that list yet?

I basically plan all my Dual-class characters around it, so it would crump my style a bit.

Oxford_Guy

Eudaemonium said:

But it isn't on that list yet?

I basically plan all my Dual-class characters around it, so it would crump my style a bit.

I think it makes dual-class characters OP and doesn't make logical sense, but I doubt this will be changed, as I suspect there would be howls of protest...

FinneousPJ

Indeed I don't think it's on devs' minds right now.