toughtess character ?
varlak
Member Posts: 15
New team going to include a kensei so my front line will just be a fighter/rogue and a tank.
I fear this combo will put a lot of pressure on the tank so I need someone who can survive well. (the Frogue will most likely start with a BS and the kensei will just flank).
Rest of the team will be an archer a wis and a cleric.
I fear this combo will put a lot of pressure on the tank so I need someone who can survive well. (the Frogue will most likely start with a BS and the kensei will just flank).
Rest of the team will be an archer a wis and a cleric.
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Khalid (has a decent dex so doesn't need gauntlets as much)
Ajantis (nice bonus AC from prot evil SLA)
Kagain (best HP, shorty saves and high mastery in axes)
Yeslick (cleric buffs, good HP, shorty saves)
Possible off or second rate tanks are:
Any fighter, ranger, paladin or cleric preferably with some combination of shorty saves, good dex and bonus HP from high con.
In my last party I had:
Ajantis with tanking gear planning to add Night Club for the +2 AC.
Minsc with stupifier. Compared to a pure cleric a fighter type gets double the attacks (so double the stun chance). The stun chances let Minsc often handle a tough mob by himself. I planned to add an offhand mace later.
(Dorn doesn't count because he doesn't have a miniature giant space hamster.)
Plus, you know, he's a Dwarf so gets shorty saves and is pretty good with axes.
Going evil or goodish....neutral? I ranked in order of fun-ness/usefulness/ability to get early enough to do any character planning, etc.
MY TOP 15 TANK PICKS:
01. Kagain. (Lawful Evil)
20 Con (Can friggin regenerate, high HP)
Shorty Saves
Mastery in Axes
Can wear any armor without restriction
Can wear the Gauntlets of Ogre Power (18/00 STR Boost)
Or you can give him the DEX Gauntlets and a STR belt. (Maybe Take Rassad long enough to get the Ogre belt from his personal quest)
02. Jaheria (True Neutral)
Yeah she's a Fighter / Druid. So WHAT!
Give her the Dex Gauntlets she can cast Bark Skin until you can give her Ankeg armor and a ring of protection. She can use a shield...clubs or scimitars are fine in that role...and she has 17 Constitution, in BG2 she gets buffed to 17 Dex anyway and stops needing the Gauntlets. And she can heal or cast insect plague to distract casters...she can remove poison...I almost always take her and lose Khalid somehow. =P
And she can shapeshift into a bear! And summon elemental creatures later....
03. Viconia (Evil)
She's a cleric, not a warrior...but her Dex is insane. She has low CON/STR.... but Because her CON is lower than 16 you can give her the Klaw of Kazaroth, which will give her awesome saving throws (She'll never get hurt by much of anything aside from maybe poison.) And she gets D8 Hit Dice...pretty good.
She can also cast Draw Upon Holy Might. Give her Ampeg armor and the +1 Small Shield, Memorize DUHM as much as you can per level and buff her prior to fights, if you have Jaheria cast Bark Skin on her too since it'll stack with her AC....
She won't ever be hit, and she'll keep things occupied...and she can withdraw and heal if she has to.
If no one else is using it give her The Stupifier, she won't attack as often but hasted later on she'll attack twice per round with a shield.
She also has natural 50% Magic Resistance.
And she can animate dead!
04. Montarion (Evil)
MONTY!
I had to go back and edit this to include Monty, Fighter / Thief, High DEX, Decent CON and STR...Good with a Sling...Shorty Saves...can wear any armor...he's actually probably a better tank than Minsc when he's not being a thieving murderer.
05. Minsc (Good) & Boo! (Hamster)
I actually, almost always use Long Swords and Maces with Minsc in BG1. I usually Shadowkeeper his Two-Handed Swords to Long Swords from the start. His CON and DEX are a little low...but with Stupifier he gets pretty dang good with keeping things stunned. In the older versions of BG I literally just used Long Swords on him and would throw on a shield if he needed more AC for someone tough. For mobs he's strong and can use dual wielding like a chainsaw. I just don't really like using Dyanheir so I don't take him as much these days.
06. Kivan (Good)
Better DEX than Minsc, worse weapon proficiency points. (Minsc at least starts with + in Mace so he can get to two ++ by level 3, Kivan is all Halberd and Long Bow) - Because I don't feel good with changing things too much, I don't like the idea of Shadowkeeper to fix him to be a tank, but with good armor and a shield he's hard to hit, with decent CON and great AC. So you could try to put two ++ into him by level 6 in a one-hander and have him tank with great success I'm sure. (See Dorn for list of good one-handers)
07. Dorn (Evil)
Low Constitution is his problem...but since he's a Blackguard he can poison weapons...if you level him up and give him two dots in a decent one hander he can use a shield. My picks would be Bastard Swords, Hammer, Long Swords, Mace, or Scimitar. (Whatever someone else ISN'T using)
Like with Vicky, Because his CON is 14 you can give him the Klaw of Kazaroth, which will give him the same Klaw-like-awesome saving throws (Again, Klaw users never get hurt by much of anything aside from maybe poison), he gets D10 Hit dice either way, and he can poison a one handed weapon just as well as a Two-Hander to interrupt casters.
He's stronger than everyone else two so you can give him the DEX Gauntlets to improve his AC.
08. Ajantis. (Good)
He's just pretty good at everything, but he is a Paladin, they're usually pretty tough out the box honestly...he's not a lot of work and can tank without lots of magic trinkets, but he is a goody-two-shoes. Better than Khalid. But I prefer Khalid's personality honestly.
09. Khalid (Good)
He has morale problems, low strength...kind of low DEX...but he's got great Constitution, if your party leader has high Charisma to counter his morale breaking a lot...he can be great over time once you buff him with gear to compensate for his flaws. He'll have a ton of hit points so he can soak up the damage end-game, but he's an investment, and not that powerful to start.
10. Yeslick (Good)
He's actually really great. A fighter / Cleric with great stats and all the key spells...he is just impossible to get until you're through half or more of the game...so he's kind of a replacement dude for hardcore players in my book since I prefer to invest in characters for the long haul. He is also probably better than Khalid and Ajantis due to shorty saving throws and his healing / buffing abilities, and his high CON. It's just annoying to save a spot for him.
11. Coran (Good)
Another guy who would have been higher in the ranks except he comes later in the game...not quite as late as Yeslick, but a bit late for your first play through. (If you know where to get him though...not impossible to wait for) - GREAT DEX....Elf...a little squishy with CON....a fantastic archer, but since he's a Fighter / Thief he can wear any armor and use a shield making him about as hard to hit as Viconia....also he gets natural elf racial bonuses, +1 to hit with a long Sword....resistance to charm, etc.
12. Branwen (Good)
Another cleric, with higher CON...she can also summon undead and cast Draw Upon Holy Might...yadda yadda...but she's not really all that special. Easy to get early unlike Yeslick thoug
13. Tiax (Evil)
He's a weak little ferret of a cleric/thief, but he can summon all manner of undead...which can tank for him while he gloats! Just a thought.
14. Faldorn (True Neutral)
She's got bear form...and can summon monsters, etc. to tank in her stead. But...she's Faldorn...so...forget I included her.
15. Xzar (Evil)
He's not so much a tank, but he makes a great meat-shield if someone other than you HAS to die. =P
You sure?! I thought since she was lower than 15 CON and doesn't have natural HP bonuses that the Klaw wouldn't have any negative effect...maybe I'm off with that?
@Certus is right, characters start hitting HP/level penalties at 6 constitution and below. Viconia has the abysmal CON score of 8, which is usually no worse than a CON of 14, but if you Kazgaroth her then she'll lose 1 HP per level.
If that's the case then just wait for Durlag's tower maybe and give her the Orge Power Gauntlets and +2 Tower Shield to get her to -6 or -7 AC depending on what else she wears instead of the Klaw perhaps.
Yeslick has become a beast on the front line, as folks are equipping him now with the new Str belt and Gauntlets of Dex.
Viconia with her super high Dex wearing ankheg armor rarely gets hit, so she can "tank" (though as a cleric her THAC0 isn't great). She can easily cast spells during melee and rarely have it interrupted. That's how I use her mostly. (Command, Doom, Miscast Magic, Rigid Thinking, Cloak of Fear, Poison.)
Dorn, Minsc, Ajantis, and Kivan can all get their AC low enough not to get too bloody on the front line and deliver a helluva lot of damage (especially Dorn).
On core her HP at level 8 is only going to be on average about 40, 45 with helm of balduran. Sure, an extra 16 HP available from fortitude potions but other characters get much more use (particular Coran or Shar-teel etc).
But as mentioned, she's going to contribute the most if she's casting while enemies are taking empty swings at her. Command and Hold from her alone can completely wipe out the enemies' front line.
Went back and added Coran and Kivan to my list because of this post...also reranked em a bit...so I think I'm done with my top 15 picks...I'm surprised Jaheria isn't more popular.
I would rank Khalid as a better tank than Jaheira and quite a few others in BG1 due to his decent Dex and Con and ability to get longsword mastery at level 3. I've never really had a problem with his morale, and he's less gear dependent that other tanks. He doesn't need the Gauntlets of Dexterity, and mastery offsets his average strength. If you do give him a strength boosting item he's a beast.
But Jaheria still gets Night Club for the +2 AC, Bark Skin, Healing Spells...the same CON bonus...almost as much hit points...and with a shield and armor a lot of great options for low AC and high STR with boosting items.
But you are right about Khalid probably being better than I give him credit for...would you use him Minsc?
Barkskin isn't great compared to most decent armours, and doesn't stack IIRC.
Jaheira with a shield and Gauntlets of Dex is a decent tank, but there are many better options in BG1. I routinely bring Jaheira along in BG2 because with 17 natural Dex and Ironskins she's a beast, just not in BG1.
Specifically, her being at significantly high risk to be killed on the front line I mean.
I only just about a month ago I completed my first BG:EE game using her as such playing on Core Rules difficulty:
PC multiclass F/M
Imoen (Thief)
Rasaad
Viconia
Neera
Dorn
So my front line consisted of my F/M (unarmored), Dorn, and Viconia. That might seem a bit 'squishy' a front line but they performed fine. There might have been a few battles where CHARNAME or Dorn died, but I don't recollect that Viconia did. This is not to say that they didn't take some damage. But Viconia definitely took the least of it by far.
I hope that my memory isn't unconsciously selective here to support my argument, but I honsetly don't recall her getting hit much at all. If it looked like she was getting too bloody (eg, got critted) she'd gulp down a healing potion (as many as needed) of course.
That said, I chalk up the success of this party mainly to smart tactics, especially with respect to spellcasting. Neera, the PC, and Viconia used disabling spells just about all the time. And with Dorn and the PC as killing machines on the front line they made quick work of most battles.
I added Viconia in at the beginning of Chapter 2, just after completing the Nashkel mines. For level-ups I reloaded and did over if the HP roll was less than half of the highest posible amount. Viconia finished the game at 45 HP. (PC at 62 HP with familiar, Dorn at 72 HP).
I hope this doesn't sound like bragging. But I play parties like this a lot. Just saying that it can be done, and without it being as difficult as some might imagine.
It really depends on the rules that you play by. I played with Viconia on my first play through and she was great fun. However, I reloaded that game as often as I liked and played accordingly.
A very good AC, low HP character is great on a reload friendly game and will die quite rarely but if you play no-reloads, or even worse; no res' then Viccy starts to become a liability on the front line as you you can count on her taking hits eventually (statistically speaking, of course).
That said Viccy is a very powerful character due to her AC and MR and makes an excellent off tank to take attention intermittently but just not often enough to test the die rolls.
I dunno, though... even then...
If you give Viconia Guantlets of Ogre Power so that she can equip the Shield +2 her AC is a whopping -7. That's before any buffs. As for me at least, I'd put her on the front line without reservation for a no-reload game. But as I mentioned, I go very strong with magic to try to end fights quickly versus more martial oriented slogs.
My next game is going to be a party led by a Wizard Slayer 3/Thief with a custom party that includes no arcane spellcasters. I'll have one Priest of Talos for magic, that's it. That is going to be much more of a smashmouth game than I'm used to. I don't think I'll try it no-reload, though, lol. I'm going to play this with SCS installed and may well get my ass handed to me repeatedly.
Like you I like to start with BS.
*sighs*
Be different.
Step 1 - Choose a Chaotic Good Mage. Use fairy dragon to make group invisible.
Step 2 - Use Imoen to wander around map to find all monsters, but not engaging.
Step 3 - Send mage in with sleep / web / spelltrap.
Step 4 - Mop up still moving enemies first with ranged. Then take out the sleepers, or held enemies second.
Step 5 - Laugh maniacally at the power you possess over muscled bound cretins.
BwahahhahahHahAHhaAHaHAHAHA ! *cough-splutter*
EDIT: My own typo! Oh dear!
OP has managed to extract one of his stats and turned it into a party member - wis.
Personally I'm a bit confused by the kensei. I'm assuming this is some kind of sensei called Ken? Would make sense that he's standing on the flanks and shouting advice at the Frogue.