How many CON do a dragon disciples need?

You

The dragon disciples has +1 Bonus to CON in level 5 and 15, so when create a new dragon disciples, How many CON should I add?
What about 14 CON? With the bonus the dragon disciples can finally get 16 CON for the max HP bonus.
Or it's better to add to 18 CON? can finally get 20 CON. Will he automatic regenerate HP? and what about the saving throws?

lockmund

I'd say 14, but that includes +1 from the tome and -1 from the dream sacrifice. 20 con (or even 21) is nice, but unless you are going solo, I wouldn't bother. You won't get stunty saves with a disciple either.

Wowo

Overall the con bonus seems pretty useless as its not exactly difficult to get 16 in con.

I guess on games where you're limited on adjusting rolls or points but overall, meh.

Fardragon

You do regenerate hp with 20 Con, but at too low a rate to be useful in combat. All it means is you will fully recover hp when you rest.

Not worth it IMO, especially compared to the advatages of making your DD an elf and giving the Con tome to an NPC like Dorn.

Some players like to have a high Con so that they can go for longer without needing to rest, but IMO it's better just to rest a little more often.

The biggest advantage to having a higher Con for a DD is being able to use the Claw of Kazgaroth without loosing HP.

But really, with Sorcs/DDs, you have plenty of attribute points going spare anyway so it doesn't much matter where you put them.

Suggested stats for a 93 point build (elf):

Str: 18 (19 with tome)
Dex: 19 (20 with tome)
Con: 17 (16 with class bonus and claw of Kazgaroth)
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Char 18

Suggested stats for a 73 point build (elf):

Str: 10 (18/00 with gauntlets)
Dex: 19 (20 with tome)
Con: 15 (16 with class bonus)
Int: 11
Wis: 3
Char 15 (18 with tome and cloak)

Wanderon

@Fardragon Nit-picky I know but as far as I know the minimum roll you can get in BGEE is 75...

(I'd be much more likely to go with the 93 myself LOL )

TJ_Hooker

Fardragon said:

Suggested stats for a 93 point build (elf):

Str: 18 (19 with tome)
Dex: 19 (20 with tome)
Con: 17 (16 with class bonus and claw of Kazgaroth)
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Char 18

Suggested stats for a 73 point build (elf):

Str: 10 (18/00 with gauntlets)
Dex: 19 (20 with tome)
Con: 15 (16 with class bonus)
Int: 11
Wis: 3
Char 15 (18 with tome and cloak)

I don't think I'd bother giving a character with 19 DEX the tome, unless they're a thief, as you gain nothing from going from 19 to 20. Unless you're thinking long haul, like using Lum's machine to get to 21, or planning on choosing the DEX loss option in that one dream sequence if BG2 (which would only result in your missile adjustment taking a -1 hit), but even then I think you'd get more utility out of the tome by using it on an NPC.

Also, I don't think sorcerers can use the gauntlets of ogre power.

Felspawn

Keep in mind with the elf builds (and i know this isnt going to matter to most people) but if these characters are going to see BG2:EE they wont be able to romance Viconia. again this probably wont matter for most people but just food for thought

You

Tks. The 93 point build looks fun, it's like a build of a fighter.
But maybe I need more wis for wish in BGEE2.

TJ_Hooker

Depending on how often you want to use Wish, you can just use potions. There's a potion (I want to say Potion of Insight?) that sets your wisdom to 18 for a while, which is as high as you need (your Wish results don't get any better by going past 18 wisdom).

Fenghoang

TJ_Hooker said:

Depending on how often you want to use Wish, you can just use potions. There's a potion (I want to say Potion of Insight?) that sets your wisdom to 18 for a while, which is as high as you need (your Wish results don't get any better by going past 18 wisdom).

You can get one of your party members (i.e. Viconia) to talk to the djinni for you as well if you choose not to use pots.

[Deleted User]

You said:

Tks. The 93 point build looks fun, it's like a build of a fighter.
But maybe I need more wis for wish in BGEE2.

You could always skimp on Cha for Wis; in the grand scheme of things, all Cha does is get you more gold (either via better rewards or store discounts), and you can get more gold than you know what to do with in both games. Since the discount for high Cha caps out at 20 Cha, you could also use the Friends spell, which gives +6 Cha, to make up the difference. So you could go:

Str 18
Dex 19
Con 17
Int 10
Wis 15 (use three tomes to get to 18)
Cha 14

With a 93 point roll and just use Friends when you want to make some expensive purchases.

Wowo

Anyone going to try a battlesorc dragon disciple build dual wielding with 19 strength? I guess it can work in BG1 where APR isn't too far behind. Bit of flavour possible anyway though obviously a dual, multi or bard is miles in front.

Fardragon

You said:

Tks. The 93 point build looks fun, it's like a build of a fighter.
But maybe I need more wis for wish in BGEE2.

That's the idea (or at least like a bard). There isn't much point in having the extra hp and AC unless you are going to stand at the front and smack stuff. Two words: Tensers Transformation.

You would be better playing a conventional sorc if you want to go round wishing for stuff.

theperm222

Just rolled a 99 in under a minute last night... not sure if the min requirements are high for a DD which makes it easy, but my guy (human) looked like this:

16 Str
18 Dex
18 Con (plus tomes and increases = mass regen)
17 Int (plus 1 from tome)
15 Wis - (plus 3 from tomes) so can wish rest
15 Cha - (for some reason this is a minimum)

I gave him a pip in quarterstaves just to see if he can survive on the frontline with his crappy thaco, but overall should rock the sh*t. Does anyone know if the spell progression will change? I heard currently they can cast 1 less per day per level than a sorc. If so, that kills. If 2 less, may just play a plain old Sorc.

Fardragon

MASS Regen?! I really don't think regen of 1 point per turn is worth anything.

Madhax

@theperm222

Sweet roll. I personally might have given up on the constitution's regen or some intelligence to pick up 18 strength instead, pushing it to 19 with a tome for a massive boost to melee power. Not that the class is necessarily built for it, but with 99 points, you might as well.

15 charisma is probably a minimum because Sorcerers are charisma-based casters in 3rd edition the same way mages are based on intelligence and clerics on wisdom. It doesn't do anything unusual for sorcerers in 2nd edition, but they kept the minimum high.

Fardragon

It's only 9 Cha (and 9 int) for a streight sorc. It's 15 for a Disciple.

There is little benefit to pushing Int abouve 11 either. I agree, 18(19) str is better.

theperm222

@Madhax gotcha but I figured strength easy to boost with belts or gauntlets, but con, not so much. Plus regen is just awesome!

theperm222

@Fardragon I figured with 18 + 2 from the class + 1 from the tome (then you get additional con in watcher's keep from the machine, plus more in the hell trials) Should be able to get it up to like 23-25 range, what's the regeneration for that?

Fardragon

Why? So you don't need a cleric to cast a heal spell on you before you go to bed? You are easily impressed!

theperm222

Then slap on the ring of regen/ring of gaxx guy would be practically unkillable (plus sorc buffs stoneskin, spirit armor, etc.)

Fardragon

theperm222 said:

@Fardragon I figured with 18 + 2 from the class + 1 from the tome (then you get additional con in watcher's keep from the machine, plus more in the hell trials) Should be able to get it up to like 23-25 range, what's the regeneration for that?

23? 2 or 3 points per turn. Not enough to be noticable in combat.

It might be 1 per round for 25. It's easier to buy a ring of regeneration. (which doesn't stack BTW)

theperm222

@ Fardragon might as well take advantage of the fact that the class gains constitution bonuses... otherwise really no point in them.

theperm222

Found this on ironworks forum
20 CON: 1 hp/6 rounds
21: 1 hp/5 rounds
22: 1 hp/4 rounds
23: 1 hp/3 rounds
24: 1 hp/2 rounds
25: 1 hp/round

Might be able to hit 25 with all the stat increases throught the game. 1 hp per round leaving room for other rings is still pretty cool, if not for RP reasons and convenience.

theperm222

Point of having intel and wisdom at 18 is so you can wish rest. Never actually did that before, wanted to give it a shot. Plus a decent lore bonus.

AHF

theperm222 said:

Found this on ironworks forum
20 CON: 1 hp/6 rounds
21: 1 hp/5 rounds
22: 1 hp/4 rounds
23: 1 hp/3 rounds
24: 1 hp/2 rounds
25: 1 hp/round

Might be able to hit 25 with all the stat increases throught the game. 1 hp per round leaving room for other rings is still pretty cool, if not for RP reasons and convenience.

Absent new items it would be:

18 + 1 for BG1 Tome + 2 for DD + 1 for Machine + 2 for hell trial = 24

By the time you get through all that, you should have the Ring of Gaxx, two rings of regeneration, an axe that regenerates, a stone that protects a sorcerer against crit hits that regenerates and a bevy of healing spells and potions.

Thus the only reason I actually think this is a good idea for an evil DD is that the other stats for a sorcerer are so meaningless as to actually make this a better use of points for someone who isn't looking to RP with high intelligence.

theperm222

@AHF that's what I figured... I always buff strength on my melee type guys to the hilt, and strength is probably the easiest to buff by using a belt or gauntlets. Other stats (except maybe dex with gloves) require potions, spells, or other jazz. Besides, sorc will never be a good mainline fighter anyway. To RP the DD class, I figure I wanna max constitution. May not make much of a diff in combat, but just for convenience sake and RP reasons, like traveling from areas will probably regen everything, etc.

theperm222

Plus having an uber-smart uber-wise character is just kinda cool, and i figure would be a little lacking in the strength department

TJ_Hooker

theperm222 said:

Found this on ironworks forum
20 CON: 1 hp/6 rounds
21: 1 hp/5 rounds
22: 1 hp/4 rounds
23: 1 hp/3 rounds
24: 1 hp/2 rounds
25: 1 hp/round

That doesn't look right. I found these numbers listed in a couple places, and I think they're correct:

20: 1 hp/60 sec (1 hp/turn)
21: 1 hp/50 sec
22: 1 hp/40 sec
23: 1 hp/30 sec (1 hp/5 rounds)
24: 1 hp/20 sec
25: 1 hp/10 sec

theperm222 said:

Point of having intel and wisdom at 18 is so you can wish rest. Never actually did that before, wanted to give it a shot. Plus a decent lore bonus.

Intelligence doesn't affect Wish.

theperm222

@TJ Hooker I think int does affect wish... at least per this guide it does. Although this guy maybe wrong.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/11588

In ToB things have changed...profoundly. I'm talking about the 9th level
spell Wish. Being an extremely useful spell that it is, Wish check for
both caster's Wisdom AND Intelligence. So, if you plan on using this spell,
(highly recommended) I suggest that you max out both Int and Wis. Easily
done at the expense of Str and Cha (neither of which will be of any
importance to the Sorcerer in ToB. So, for ToB I'll recommend the classic
mage-like stat allocation:

8/9 Str, 18/19 Dex, 16 Con, 18 Int, 18 Wis, 9/10 Cha.

theperm222

Still not sure if anyone knows whether the spells per level is bugged and will be changed... a little confused. My sorc started with 2 spell selections and 3 spells per day, DD with 2 spell selections and only 2 spells per day. Is it that DD just can cast 1 less spell per level per day? The description sux.