I remember that thread on the Ironworks forum, I used to post there. If memory serves, those are proposed numbers for a mod changing the way regeneration was calculated in BG. The actual numbers are far worse, and of course they don't stack with rings. Regen isn't very good.
The downside of Dragon Disciples compared to Sorcerers is that they can cast one fewer spell per level per day. The current description for Disciples is inaccurate and will be updated, according to Jalily.
@Madhax thanks. I don't think that 1 less per day is so bad considering the extra hp's and abilities, and the RP coolness factor. 2 less per day would be a lot worse, as I thought that was what they were going for. Speaking of Dragon Disciples, anyone have any cool portraits for them, or can point me on the right direction?
@theperm222 Yeah I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that the kit description is wrong for the DD. The kit apparently gives you 1 less cast per day for each spell level, rather than 1 less spell known at each level.
With regards to Int affecting Wish, I guess it's possible. I've heard it said that it only relies on wisdom a number of times, but I don't think I ever really used it, so I suppose that guide could be correct (although I really doubt it).
Wish just depends on Wis. And I think they fixed the possibility to talk with the Djiin with another party member. So, since the number of Potion of Wisdom is limited, you will probably need those Wis points
I have to admit I'm a tome hog... hate giving stat boosts to NPC's that will not carryover... even if they need it, or my particular character doesn't LOL. Would rather use it on my guy since he will have the stat boosts in BG2...
If I recall didn't NWN2 have other stat increases for a Red Dragon Disciple? Like certain levels you got + 2 Str, and a few other increases... seemed a lot more useful for NWN and 3rd edtion then just the Con increases with this particular kit for EE.
I've got a thread open currently in Feature Requests seeking to potentially adjust the stat bonuses that Dragon Disciples get. Strength bonuses were something I'd prefer to see over constitution bonuses...
Wish just depends on Wis. And I think they fixed the possibility to talk with the Djiin with another party member. So, since the number of Potion of Wisdom is limited, you will probably need those Wis points
If I recall didn't NWN2 have other stat increases for a Red Dragon Disciple? Like certain levels you got + 2 Str, and a few other increases... seemed a lot more useful for NWN and 3rd edtion then just the Con increases with this particular kit for EE.
@ Fardragon might as well take advantage of the fact that the class gains constitution bonuses... otherwise really no point in them.
If you are playing the "might as well take advantage of" game, you might as well take advantage of the extra AC and HP by putting the Dragon Disciple on the front row. In which case, you are going to want Str 19. You "might as well take advantage of" the better AC and charm immunity of playing an elf. "You might as well take advantage of" significantly increased party HP by giving Con tomes to an ally.
Con bonuses? You are right, there is really no point in them.
@Fardragon even with the Strength of 19 the Dragon Disciple wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn. Still, you could stick him on the front line and blast everyone with your fiery dragon breath. Honestly, there really is no point to the massive strength bonuses on any mage type character. The difference in the to hit on a 17 str with the str tome is +1 vs +3, a whopping +2 to hit, which really doesn't mean much when your character's max thac0 is going to be 13. Besides, STR so easy to modify by slapping on a belt in BG2, which I probably wouldn't even do anyway, as I would reserve those for the melee types, and use the belt of inertial barrier.
@SpaceInvader lucky hit but props, in all seriousness, that was pretty cool. Damn I love this game... I gotta say 15 years later still going strong, such a testament to its awesomeness. At work right now and all I wanna do is go home and play, or make new characters, or do another black pits run, etc.
STR is underrated for spellcasters. Even in BG2 sometimes you will want to hit a target with your Staff of the Magi to dissolve its protections to spare time and spells. And high STR score pared with a +2 bonus for being invisible can make the difference
@Fardragon even with the Strength of 19 the Dragon Disciple wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn. Still, you could stick him on the front line and blast everyone with your fiery dragon breath. Honestly, there really is no point to the massive strength bonuses on any mage type character. The difference in the to hit on a 17 str with the str tome is +1 vs +3, a whopping +2 to hit, which really doesn't mean much when your character's max thac0 is going to be 13. Besides, STR so easy to modify by slapping on a belt in BG2, which I probably wouldn't even do anyway, as I would reserve those for the melee types, and use the belt of inertial barrier.
You heard of Tensers Transformation? 'Twill be the bread and butter Dragon Disciple spell in BG2.
And if you don't want to emulate "melee types" why are you playing a Dragon Disciple at all? If all you want to do is stand at the back an cast spells then a vanilla sorc is more powerful.
Sure, you don't NEED to put points into strength, but if you have them left over, it's more useful than putting them into Int or Con.
The problem with the Dragon Disciple (and to a certain extent, the Barbarian and the earlier draft of the Dwarven Defender we saw) is that it's a port from a system where stat bonuses scale linearly and so a +X to a stat gives an equivalent bonus to any character regardless of where the base stat is at. Whereas in 2e a +4 STR (or +2 CON) could either result in a massive bonus or no bonus at all.
Still, I'd take a tiny, slow amount of regen over the bonuses you get from INT or CHA (or WIS, if I don't want to abuse Wish). I agree that STR is a higher priority, but I doubt any Dragon Disciple would have any trouble getting a good enough roll to max out the physical stats.
@Fardragon I hear you I do wanna be in the mix a bit, but maybe not so much with physcial attacks... I guess in BG2 can swap out some belts to do a little wacking with the staff of magi, or use DUHM ability until its lost, or even spam potions or strength spells. Problem with Tensers though, is I don't think you can cast spells while using it, no? May be more useful for a solo playthrough when you are getting beat or run out of other spells and can use it as a last resort for melee. Either way, the possibilities are endless depending on your choice of spells. Still think its a cool class, albeit the lackluster stat bonuses. Hopefully it will be addressed in a future patch/update.
You can't cast spells whilst under Tensers Transformation, but it will turn a Dragon Disciple into a far better fighter than anyone with a fighter class, so you don't really need to.
And it's nessassary that the stat bonuses are "lackluster". That is what balances the class. A more useful bonus (e.g. strength) would make it nessassary to further nerf spellcasting.
@Iecerint I agree, I would prioritise Cha above Int.
TT doubles HP (so 2d6+4 per level), gives you fighter thac0 with an additional +2 to hit and damage, and -4 AC bonus (i.e. -10 to all intents and purposes). Combine it with a few other buffs and you wade through mobs like Conan. It's awsome on bards, especially Blades, but the 1 round per level duration means it's over all too soon. Whereas a Dragon Disciple can just keep casting it...
For 3rd level i know everyone debates back and forth between skull trap and fireball, but I was thinking with the DD's fire resistance coupled with a ring of fire resistance, you can stand amongst the crowd, blast off a fireball, target yourself, destroy the comp, and simultaneously heal. But I know skull trap scales better... what do you think would be a better choice, if picking between the two?
When you feel the need to cast TT, it means you're "at the dessert" (as we say). But a good tactic I use, before casting it, is Improved Haste + a preventive Contingecy that shots a Dispel Magic when your HP are at 25%. That can save your arse, in case of emergency.
@Nifft that would be cool, but do you think they will implement that? I guess there is no way to tell since there were no Sorc's in the original BG1... did going from Tutu to BG2 allow repicks? If I remember correctly in NWN2 there was an option to change spells of a prior level, that was awesome in case you made a boo boo. Sorc/Erdrick Knight in NWN2 rocked the sh^t.
@theperm222: I don't know, but I suspect so since it's effectively a different game, and in the worst case I have EE Keeper ... not helpful for iPad players, but it's an option for me.
Comments
I remember that thread on the Ironworks forum, I used to post there. If memory serves, those are proposed numbers for a mod changing the way regeneration was calculated in BG. The actual numbers are far worse, and of course they don't stack with rings. Regen isn't very good.
The downside of Dragon Disciples compared to Sorcerers is that they can cast one fewer spell per level per day. The current description for Disciples is inaccurate and will be updated, according to Jalily.
With regards to Int affecting Wish, I guess it's possible. I've heard it said that it only relies on wisdom a number of times, but I don't think I ever really used it, so I suppose that guide could be correct (although I really doubt it).
And I think they fixed the possibility to talk with the Djiin with another party member. So, since the number of Potion of Wisdom is limited, you will probably need those Wis points
Con bonuses? You are right, there is really no point in them.
Have a look: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13086/solo-sorcerer-vs-karoug-greater-wolfwere-co-on-insane
Even in BG2 sometimes you will want to hit a target with your Staff of the Magi to dissolve its protections to spare time and spells. And high STR score pared with a +2 bonus for being invisible can make the difference
And if you don't want to emulate "melee types" why are you playing a Dragon Disciple at all? If all you want to do is stand at the back an cast spells then a vanilla sorc is more powerful.
Sure, you don't NEED to put points into strength, but if you have them left over, it's more useful than putting them into Int or Con.
Still, I'd take a tiny, slow amount of regen over the bonuses you get from INT or CHA (or WIS, if I don't want to abuse Wish). I agree that STR is a higher priority, but I doubt any Dragon Disciple would have any trouble getting a good enough roll to max out the physical stats.
And it's nessassary that the stat bonuses are "lackluster". That is what balances the class. A more useful bonus (e.g. strength) would make it nessassary to further nerf spellcasting.
@Iecerint I agree, I would prioritise Cha above Int.
But a good tactic I use, before casting it, is Improved Haste + a preventive Contingecy that shots a Dispel Magic when your HP are at 25%. That can save your arse, in case of emergency.