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Fighter/thief Multi or dual?

JullosJullos Member Posts: 24
So I'm starting over BG1 EE and I want to go as a fighter/thief, I did pretty much all the other classes but never this one because I trusted Imoen! So my question is should I multi-class from the start ou start as a thief (or a fighter) and then dual later in the game? I really don't know... Anyone has thoughts on that?

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Comments

  • JullosJullos Member Posts: 24
    Allright! thank you for the insight! I'll try it.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    As @Felspawn said, Fighter/Thiefs are unique in their consistent power across the entire saga. The two classes work very well together from start to finish, and being able to have HLAs from either the warrior or thief pools is a major benefit.

    I should also mention that, with proper planning and access to skill-enhancing potions and items, a fighter/thief can operate as your party's designated lockpicker, pocketpicker, trapfinder, AND stealth backstabber all at once within the BG1 level limit. This means that you don't need to compensate for the character's inferior leveling speed with a second thief if you build the character perfectly.

    JullosRnRClown
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407
    Lots of excellent options for the fighter/thief mulit too - half orc with 19 str & con for brutal backstabs and survivability & halfling for best thief skill boosts w bonus to slings are my two favorites but really any race you can make one in will be fine.

  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Member Posts: 618
    Felspawn said:

    i dont think there is enough of an advantage with the Fighter Thief to make it worth while.

    Well until they fix the proficiency allocation bug of dualing into a Figher, I'd say starting as a Thief (preferably a Thief kit) and dualing to a Fighter is well worth it.
    When you dual to a Fighter, you can put all 4 starting pips into one weapon, and be a GM in that weapong by 3rd level.


  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407

    Felspawn said:

    i dont think there is enough of an advantage with the Fighter Thief to make it worth while.

    Well until they fix the proficiency allocation bug of dualing into a Figher, I'd say starting as a Thief (preferably a Thief kit) and dualing to a Fighter is well worth it.
    When you dual to a Fighter, you can put all 4 starting pips into one weapon, and be a GM in that weapong by 3rd level.


    But that doesn't make you much of a thief - multi F/T is useful on both classes throughout the entire game.

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    If I'm thinking about this correctly, dual classing will get you a few extra hit points and you can work your way to grandmastery. Multiclassing will get you racial bonuses and none of that annoying dead zone.

    WanderonJullosRnRClownvladpen
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Bigfish said:

    If I'm thinking about this correctly, dual classing will get you a few extra hit points and you can work your way to grandmastery. Multiclassing will get you racial bonuses and none of that annoying dead zone.

    That sums it up well. Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    Multi-classing is far easier to play. And the power difference is really not that big.

    BigfishFelspawn
  • FelspawnFelspawn Member Posts: 161
    agreed the power difference just isnt there, Kensai/Mage vs Fighter Mage? yes, but F/T? nope.

  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Member Posts: 618
    edited February 2013
    Wanderon said:


    But that doesn't make you much of a thief - multi F/T is useful on both classes throughout the entire game.

    That depends on what you want your Thief skills for and when you dual.
    Since I changed my XP cap up by 31k, I usually dual at T7, however, without changing the XP Cap, you can still get T6/F8 which will still give you a 100% in 2 skills or quite high in several if you split your points.



  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407

    Wanderon said:


    But that doesn't make you much of a thief - multi F/T is useful on both classes throughout the entire game.

    That depends on what you want your Thief skills for and when you dual.
    Since I changed my XP cap up by 31k, I usually dual at T7, however, without changing the XP Cap, you can still get T6/F8 which will still give you a 100% in 2 skills or quite high in several if you slip your points.



    I was referring specifically to the dual at F3 you mentioned but even at the higher levels you still have the dead zone during the dual when you have no thief skills and the more thief skills you want the longer you will go without them.

    For me I'd rather have both classes active all game and settle for 2 pips per weapon - which also allows me to choose more weapons to be proficient or specialized in to have options for specific situations rather than channel all my points into one or two.

    I mean really a half-orc with 19 str (before the tome) that can backstab all game long is going to kill things just as quickly if not quicker than a human T7/F8 with 18 str (before the tome) who goes half the game without the backstab ability.

  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Member Posts: 618
    Wanderon said:



    I was referring specifically to the dual at F3 you mentioned but even at the higher levels you still have the dead zone during the dual when you have no thief skills and the more thief skills you want the longer you will go without them.

    I didn't actually specify what level you dual you thief at in that post.
    The 3rd level reference was for F3, and by F3 you make GM in a weapon.
    Wanderon said:


    For me I'd rather have both classes active all game and settle for 2 pips per weapon - which also allows me to choose more weapons to be proficient or specialized in to have options for specific situations rather than channel all my points into one or two.

    Personally, I really only use two weapons, so being specialized in a Theif melee weapon (2 Thief weapons if I don't put points in SWS) and GM in a bow suits me just fine.
    Wanderon said:


    I mean really a half-orc with 19 str (before the tome) that can backstab all game long is going to kill things just as quickly if not quicker than a human T7/F8 with 18 str (before the tome) who goes half the game without the backstab ability.

    Here's another difference in our playing styles.
    I don't backstab... ever.
    And I usually play an F/M/T to boot.


  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407
    @ TheCoffeeGod

    I'm sorry I thought we were talking about the general options of playing a F/T for someone who has never played one so I just assumed they would be interested in things like thief abilities - you know backstabs, open locks , find traps, - all those things a FT can do.

    Bigfish
  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Member Posts: 618
    Wanderon said:

    @ TheCoffeeGod

    I'm sorry I thought we were talking about the general options of playing a F/T for someone who has never played one so I just assumed they would be interested in things like thief abilities - you know backstabs, open locks , find traps, - all those things a FT can do.

    We are.
    But he was also considering dualing an F/T, which I was giving the beneifits of starting with a Theif and dualing to a Fighter.
    Since I've played around with the bug, I'd say dualing a Swash 5-6 to a Figher is probably the best option when wanting to dual an F/T.
    But in the end, it boils down to what I said, it depends on what you want your Thief skills for and ultimately what you want out of your character.

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited February 2013
    I suppose if you want to min/max, there is some fighter/thief dual combination that would be optimal. I suppose I'm old fashion in just going with a Fighter-Thief multi-class. I always have one in my party.

  • FelspawnFelspawn Member Posts: 161


    Here's another difference in our playing styles.
    I don't backstab... ever.
    And I usually play an F/M/T to boot.


    See that makes all the difference in the world, if i didn't backstab i wouldn't be a F/T either. i'd be a Swashbuckler. who is pretty much a fighter/thief in terms of combat ability except without the slow XP progression (hell they get the super fast single class thief one instead... hello level 10 in BG1). as i said before i dont like dual class but this would actually be one of the times it would make sense, to be a Swashbuckler/Mage.

  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    If I didn't want to backstab I'd make a Ranger.

  • FelspawnFelspawn Member Posts: 161
    also a good choice, i guess it depends on if you want to disarm traps/unlock chests or just want stealth

    RnRClown
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,107
    F/T for BG1. For BG2, especially with mods, I prefer Swashbuckler->Fighter dual.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.
    I thought we were talking BG1. But why wouldn't you get the HLAs? Dual class characters do still get them.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    atcDave said:

    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.
    I thought we were talking BG1. But why wouldn't you get the HLAs? Dual class characters do still get them.
    @atcDave -

    Dual class characters only get the HLA from their active class. A thief dualed to fighter doesn't get thief HLA (think about Imoen not getting thief HLA or Anomen not getting fighter HLA).

    For BG1 only, I can see the point but think the power difference is sufficiently negligible not to be worth the down time but that is just a matter of preference so reasonable minds can differ.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407
    atcDave said:

    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.
    I thought we were talking BG1. But why wouldn't you get the HLAs? Dual class characters do still get them.
    Doesn't it depend on what level you have in each class as to whether you get both HLAs?

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Wanderon said:

    atcDave said:

    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.
    I thought we were talking BG1. But why wouldn't you get the HLAs? Dual class characters do still get them.
    Doesn't it depend on what level you have in each class as to whether you get both HLAs?
    You have to pass 3M XP in each class to get HLA. So if you wait to dual until you have 3M XP as a thief you will be level 24 when you get your first HLA. You then will need 4.25M before you can use those thief abilities (i.e., when you hit level 25 as a fighter). Then you will cap out at 8M experience with 1 thief HLA and 8 fighter HLA.

    A multi F/T would get 18 HLA - twice the number.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,107
    If you're dual-class, you get HLAs for the class you level up with; if you wait until 3m XP to dual then yes, you will get to pick HLAs for that class. But when you then reach 3m with your new class, you get to pick HLAs for THAT CLASS ONLY. You can never again pick HLAs of your first class, even if you went over 3m XP with it.

  • FenghoangFenghoang Member Posts: 160
    edited February 2013
    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.
    I thought we were talking BG1. But why wouldn't you get the HLAs? Dual class characters do still get them.
    @atcDave -

    Dual class characters only get the HLA from their active class. A thief dualed to fighter doesn't get thief HLA (think about Imoen not getting thief HLA or Anomen not getting fighter HLA).

    For BG1 only, I can see the point but think the power difference is sufficiently negligible not to be worth the down time but that is just a matter of preference so reasonable minds can differ.
    Most people dual from fighter (prob Kensai) -> thief for the BS multiplier, GM, and more thief skill pts though. All of the HLAs you listed be would be available. You would lose GWW and Hardiness, but honestly, I would rather pick more uses of Time Stop Trap anyway.

    Yann1989
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    edited February 2013
    Wanderon said:

    atcDave said:

    AHF said:

    atcDave said:

    Dual classing is ultimately more powerful, but requires more patience and there will be a few periods when your character is less capable.

    I'm not sure I agree with this. Ultimately getting UAI, assassination, spike trap, etc. upper level abilities seems to outweigh the dual classing advantages to me.
    I thought we were talking BG1. But why wouldn't you get the HLAs? Dual class characters do still get them.
    Doesn't it depend on what level you have in each class as to whether you get both HLAs?
    Both or either. You can build a game winning character either way. Makes no difference to me.

    I would not ever recommend worrying about trying to get both sets of HLAs! Its truly not worth it.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Multiclass, but I'm biased against dual-classing, I just find it tedious

    RnRClown
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I'd probably avoid Half-Orc as a fighter/thief multi as they miss out on a lot of bonus skill points. This makes quite a difference in BG1 and while the 19 Str is nice, it's not too hard to roll 18/00 str when you only need 84 points to max physical attributes and avoid penalties in the rest.

    Gnomes, Elves, Halflings, Dwarves and even Half-elves have things to recommend them too. As people have said though they're a decent but rarely overpowered class that remains consistent and useful throughout the sga.

    Oxford_Guy
  • FelspawnFelspawn Member Posts: 161
    i personally roll with a Half - elf, they arent the power gamer's choice (elves or halflings) but they mesh better with my personal RP and my prefered love interest in BG2 doesnt like elves.

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