Dwarven defender/cleric for bg ee and bg2 (chaotic Neutral)

Rahlik

Hi guys i'd lke to try out a dwarven defender/cleric.

Start STATS:

Str: 18/00
Dex: 16
Con: 19
Int: 11 (For BG 2 Mind flayers etc.)
Wisdom: 18
Chr: 2

when would be the best time to dual for this combination bare in mind i have one eye on bg2? I would assume warhammers and slings will be the way to go for this build or possibly 2handed weapons. Or am i way off on this?

moody_mage

You can't dual-class as dwarves cannot dual-class. You can't even multi-class as you can't take a kit on a multi-class character.

Not without some game editing trickery anyway.

Rahlik

Sorry i should have mentioned i would be editing in this class combo

moody_mage

Then more Dex. More Dex is always good. No reason not to max it out.

FinneousPJ

For the whole saga I'd recommend multi class.

moody_mage

If you want to dual class then best to take Fighter first and level up to 3, 6, 7, 12 or 13. You get extra weapon proficiency points on 3, 6 and 9 and gain extra attacks per round at 7 and 13.

It depends on if you want to see any clerical action in BG1 or not?

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Charisma 2? I don't wanna be in his shoes.

Lord_Tansheron

decado said:

Then more Dex. More Dex is always good. No reason not to max it out.

Afaik dwarves get -2 DEX in BG:EE, so 16 is the (pre-tome) maximum.

DwDef 13->Cleric sounds quite strong indeed. Dual at 13 to get the extra 1/2 APR, which will be quite necessary considering you can't achieve grandmastery.

As for weapons, I'd suggest Defender of Easthaven. You can start with a shield if you like, but in ToB (or earlier, if you have difficulty-mods) enemy THAC0s usually are so high that you are better off going for resistances instead of AC. You can put DoE in the off-hand then, and use Runehammer+5 in the main.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Bhaaldog said:

Charisma 2...


Charisma 2?

I'm pretty sure the dwarf had a crappy life.

Lord_Tansheron

Bhaaldog said:

Charisma 2?

Quite power-gamy, but CHA is completely irrelevant in BG2 thanks to the Ring of Human Influence. Not that it's very relevant at all anyway...

Rahlik

I prob would be inclined to go with level 7; But Multi classing would be a good option also actually. Probably better from the point of view of having access to both classes.

From your point on dex being higher = better if i start as a pure Dwarven defender i can only put it up to a max of 16; so i was trying to maintain that limitiation.

Oxford_Guy

Lord_Tansheron said:

Bhaaldog said:

Charisma 2?

Quite power-gamy, but CHA is completely irrelevant in BG2 thanks to the Ring of Human Influence. Not that it's very relevant at all anyway...

Only "Quite"?!:

Str 18/00
Cha 2

Rahlik

Yes dumping Charisma that low is 'gaming the system' i guess so i could up it to say 7 and drop my int by 5 leaving him open to being killed in bg2 by the int drain attacks a little more.

Lord_Tansheron

It's all a personal choice how much you powergame. You already stated that you don't mind going dual-class with a dwarf even though it's illegal, so min/maxing stats isn't exactly a big clash with your mindset. Besides, it's "only" an 84 roll, that's not excessive imo. Not everyone is into RP-restrictions all the time, and that's perfectly fine.

Rahlik

Yeah very true; I'm considering running a variation of these stats with the dual or multi-class but the core thought on this was i'd like to try something different. Especially with SCS becoming available for BG ee (I never played using it previously).

Dee

Personally, I kind of like the idea of a character that smells bad, is rude to people, and always talks about how he's "got big plans for next year, just you wait and see," whom the other party members keep around solely because he's good in a fight.

moody_mage

Dwarves can have a maximum starting Dex of 17. It's Cha they take a double hit on.

Lord_Tansheron

Aosaw said:

Personally, I kind of like the idea of a character that smells bad, is rude to people, and always talks about how he's "got big plans for next year, just you wait and see," whom the other party members keep around solely because he's good in a fight.

Wait a sec... have... have we met?!

On a more serious note, you can come up with an RP solution to almost anything. But from a power-balance standpoint, I find it perfectly alright to min/max.

Rahlik said:

Especially with SCS becoming available for BG ee (I never played using it previously).

SCS is nothing short of AMAZING, for both BG1 and BG2/ToB. Crank up all the options and be prepared for quite the challenge! It will make you feel completely fine with your power-gamed character, trust me

Rahlik

Well i'm just finalizing the creation of the char as a dwarven defender; it wont allow me to push to 17 dex at this point (due to the -2 hit). I''ve chosen to stick with these stats and i'm toying with multi vs dual class. just figuring out weapon profs also. I think dual wielding is going to be my way forward and warhammer and/or Axe feats. Initially i like the warhammer concept as theres synergy between cleric and the dwarven fighter there. Some further research as to feasible weapons across the three parts of the saga will need to be looked into though i guess

Rahlik

Aosaw said:

Personally, I kind of like the idea of a character that smells bad, is rude to people, and always talks about how he's "got big plans for next year, just you wait and see," whom the other party members keep around solely because he's good in a fight.

Yes and dwarves can be quite obnoxious and rank smelling at times

Lord_Tansheron said:

SCS is nothing short of AMAZING, for both BG1 and BG2/ToB. Crank up all the options and be prepared for quite the challenge! It will make you feel completely fine with your power-gamed character, trust me

I think i'll just create the character now and install SCS then before deciding on how best to mod the Defender; I am torn between multi and dual class. Multi appeals due to the ability to level at the same time though. I need to see which offers me the most benefits i guess though

Lord_Tansheron

Rahlik said:

'I've chosen to stick with these stats and i'm toying with multi vs dual class. just figuring out weapon profs also. I think dual wielding is going to be my way forward and warhammer and/or Axe feats. Initially i like the warhammer concept as theres synergy between cleric and the dwarven fighter there. Some further research as to feasible weapons across the three parts of the saga will need to be looked into though i guess

There really is no reason to be a multi-class, at least in BG2. The HP bonus of fighters stops at lvl10, their APR bonus at 13 - the level you usually dual at. After that all you get is a few more proficiencies, THAC0, and a little HP per level. Not very exciting, compared to the cleric bonus of more spells and higher Turn Undead level, all the way to the end. Not to mention that as a DwDef, you don't even need a lot of proficiency points. THAC0 and HP are easily offset by cleric buffs.

There is a point where multi-class catches up, but only at the VERY end of the game; there is little difference between lvl30 and lvl40, so being a multi-class at that point can be better. However, getting there the dual-class will be stronger by far, and even at the end the multi-class doesn't have a HUGE advantage (mainly access to both HLAs).

Oh, and, unless you mod it in, both a multi- and dual-class fighter/cleric will NOT be able to use bladed weapons (i.e. axes) due to cleric restrictions. You will only be able to use blunt weapons.

Rahlik

Thnaks @Lord_Tansheron; I'm going to stick with blunt weapons so won't be modding that in; My initial specialization choices have been warhammer and i went with two weapon fighting. I may very well spec into Mace to open up weapon choices with less impact also. Later I may also look at Sling's as Something for ranged use for some Flexibility

Madhax

The current maximum of 16 dexterity is due to a bug associated with the implementation of lower minimum attribute scores for Dwarves in the recent patch. It's supposed to be 17 dexterity. There's a downloadable fix floating around somewhere on these forums, or you can manually edit it.

First thing that came to mind when I read DwDef/Cleric is: Armor of Faith plus Defensive Stance = absurdly overpowered. Don't break the game =D

Lord_Tansheron

Madhax said:

First thing that came to mind when I read DwDef/Cleric is: Armor of Faith plus Defensive Stance = absurdly overpowered. Don't break the game =D

Makes me wonder how this stacks, additively or multiplicatively. Hardiness seems more obvious as to how it works since it adds the same specific resistances, but a blanket reductions from AoF? Hmm....

Rahlik

Well I have managed to do some testing around making a multi class dwdef/cleric using ee shadowkeeper. had a play with near infinity but each time i changed anything it broke the save. I'll have to take a peek at how the dual classing works differently once i'm higher level and of course using a backup of my save. It's a shame i cant seem to get Near infinity working but it always seems to cause the save loading to crash when i launch into the game.


Oh and i have installed SCS also only thing i think is omitted is the bassilus improvements which from what i can see is due to a bug caused by a change in the recent patch.

OzzyBotkins

Bhaaldog said:

Charisma 2...

Rahlik said:

Start STATS:

Str: 18/00
Dex: 16
Con: 19
Int: 11 (For BG 2 Mind flayers etc.)
Wisdom: 18
Chr: 2

Charisma 2?

Party of One I presume

Lord_Tansheron

Rahlik said:

Well I have managed to do some testing around making a multi class dwdef/cleric using ee shadowkeeper. had a play with near infinity but each time i changed anything it broke the save. I'll have to take a peek at how the dual classing works differently once i'm higher level and of course using a backup of my save. It's a shame i cant seem to get Near infinity working but it always seems to cause the save loading to crash when i launch into the game.

Don't really need NI to make a kitted multi. Just make a vanilla character with the kit you want and save as a template, then use SK to add the kit to your main char and copy over any affects/spells from the template (if there are any). I'm not actually sure you need to do this; some of the affects are generated automatically (right away or on levelup) but sometimes it seems to lose a few things somewhere so I found it safest to copy over all affects anyway.

Keep in mind that a kitted multi-class (especially in BG1) can be pretty bonkers in terms of power... >_>

Fenghoang

Lord_Tansheron said:

Madhax said:

First thing that came to mind when I read DwDef/Cleric is: Armor of Faith plus Defensive Stance = absurdly overpowered. Don't break the game =D

Makes me wonder how this stacks, additively or multiplicatively. Hardiness seems more obvious as to how it works since it adds the same specific resistances, but a blanket reductions from AoF? Hmm....

Yeah... if you throw in a Defender of Easthaven, would you heal like with elemental resist? XD

AHF

Fenghoang said:

Lord_Tansheron said:

Madhax said:

First thing that came to mind when I read DwDef/Cleric is: Armor of Faith plus Defensive Stance = absurdly overpowered. Don't break the game =D

Makes me wonder how this stacks, additively or multiplicatively. Hardiness seems more obvious as to how it works since it adds the same specific resistances, but a blanket reductions from AoF? Hmm....

Yeah... if you throw in a Defender of Easthaven, would you heal like with elemental resist? XD

I just tested and it does heal you like elemental resist. The message says you are immune to the damage but the 19th level dwarven defender with 125 resistance to physical damage (with defensive stance) that I SK'd was being healed by the attacks from the guards in Candlekeep.

Lord_Tansheron

Nice indeed! That can lead to some pretty sweet mechanics... I do seem to recall that Amelyssan does blunt damage? That means with Roranach's Horn you can pretty much tank her forever... that should have interesting implications for the Ascension battle.