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Can Bhaalspawn be resurrected? [Spoilers]

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  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    No Bhaalspawn can't be resurrected. The fact that Imoen can be resurrected is a flaw in the storyline that emerged because they wrote her into being a Bhaalspawn in a later stage.

    SpaceInvaderRaistlin82
  • ScytheKnightScytheKnight Member Posts: 220
    Imoen ohh-crap-we-need-to-make-her-more-interesting... yeah that sounds about right.

    Raistlin82
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    edited February 2013
    Dying means they lose their Bhaal essence and therefore their potential for divinity. In your case, that means the plot won't work anymore, so it makes sense for the game to end there.

    Post edited by Jalily on
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    IkMarc said:

    No Bhaalspawn can't be resurrected. The fact that Imoen can be resurrected is a flaw in the storyline that emerged because they wrote her into being a Bhaalspawn in a later stage.

    And Sarevok's resurrection in ToB...?

  • TomeTome Member Posts: 466
    He was reborn as a non-bhaalspawn and furthermore he required the sacrifice of a portion of your/Imoen's divinity IIRC..

  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    shawne said:

    IkMarc said:

    No Bhaalspawn can't be resurrected. The fact that Imoen can be resurrected is a flaw in the storyline that emerged because they wrote her into being a Bhaalspawn in a later stage.

    And Sarevok's resurrection in ToB...?
    His resurrection came in a different way from the afterlife, not the standard riddle by a priest. I will restrict my post to this explanation due to spoilers.

  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    When Bhaalspawn die they disintegrate as shown in the BG1 end movie and the death movie.

    zupsky
  • toanwrathtoanwrath Member Posts: 621
    IkMarc said:

    No Bhaalspawn can't be resurrected. The fact that Imoen can be resurrected is a flaw in the storyline that emerged because they wrote her into being a Bhaalspawn in a later stage.

    Oh wow I never thought about that...plot hole much Bioware?

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,126
    edited February 2013
    @toanwrath @ScytheKnight

    Imoen dies?

    IIRC she is
    kidnapped and has bhaalessence drained in Spellhold
    What am I missing? I can't recall her dying after that and returning

  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    i think if you die you're no longer a Bhaalspawn(you loose the essence),but this is not true for Imoen,probably for practical reasons.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,810

    @toanwrath @ScytheKnight

    Imoen dies?

    IIRC she is

    kidnapped and has bhaalessence drained in Spellhold
    What am I missing? I can't recall her dying after that and returning

    They're referring to if she dies in combat, end is then resurrected by some priest or party cleric. Not a plot event.

    @IkMarc -
    I always felt the death movie was symbolic. Regardless, the final movie isn't about Sarevok's body disintegrating, it's just a statue of him.

  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 685
    I am convinced that the only party member that ever dies in Baldur's Gate II is Yoshimo (not counting Dyneheir, Khalid, Xzar, etc. who are not joinable NPCs in that game). Deaths and resurrections of your companions are merely game mechanics. Imagine BG II was a book or movie - would the plot be interrupted all the time because someone got killed in some unimportant way? No. Only meaningful deaths are important (and enforced by the game).

  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    My recollection is that Imoen cannot be resurrected in BG2 for this reason and that she can in the original release of BG1 because that part of the story had not been written yet.

    It's kind of the whole flippin' point of the plot, yo. Kill all the bhaalspawn.

  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    scriver said:


    @IkMarc -
    I always felt the death movie was symbolic. Regardless, the final movie isn't about Sarevok's body disintegrating, it's just a statue of him.


    The death movie isn't symbolic and Sarevok's body does disintegrate in the end movie.

  • thokuh13thokuh13 Member Posts: 1
    IkMarc said:

    No Bhaalspawn can't be resurrected. The fact that Imoen can be resurrected is a flaw in the storyline that emerged because they wrote her into being a Bhaalspawn in a later stage.

    Really? Did she have a different name early on then? I thought her name made it pretty obvious from the first time you meet her.
    Imoen => Imone => I'm one

  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    True Imoen could be resurrected in BG1 LOL

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,810
    IkMarc said:

    scriver said:


    @IkMarc -
    I always felt the death movie was symbolic. Regardless, the final movie isn't about Sarevok's body disintegrating, it's just a statue of him.


    The death movie isn't symbolic and Sarevok's body does disintegrate in the end movie.

    Huh, I had completely forgotten about that first part.
    Calmar said:

    I am convinced that the only party member that ever dies in Baldur's Gate II is Yoshimo (not counting Dyneheir, Khalid, Xzar, etc. who are not joinable NPCs in that game). Deaths and resurrections of your companions are merely game mechanics. Imagine BG II was a book or movie - would the plot be interrupted all the time because someone got killed in some unimportant way? No. Only meaningful deaths are important (and enforced by the game).

    Well duh. Problem is that game mechanics are supposed to support the story. Hence Imoen dying and ressurecting are weak points in the narrative.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    thokuh13 said:

    IkMarc said:

    No Bhaalspawn can't be resurrected. The fact that Imoen can be resurrected is a flaw in the storyline that emerged because they wrote her into being a Bhaalspawn in a later stage.

    Really? Did she have a different name early on then? I thought her name made it pretty obvious from the first time you meet her.
    Imoen => Imone => I'm one
    Imoen was, I have heard, actually added to BG1 at the last minute so that you could have a Thief early on. This is why she has no banter with any other character and her stats are brokenly out-of-line with the other characters (for example, she is essentially the best thief in the game, thus rendering the others more-or-less pointless).


    In BG2, I believe the original plan was to have her die in Spellhold. This was changed due to fan outcry, which leads to a significant number of either minor or major plot holes (depending on your perspective). This still doesn't get around the fact that she can be rezzed in BG1.

    [Deleted User]KholdstareFlashburn
  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    WHAT IS THIS!?!?!? A PLOT-HOLE!!?!!??!?!?

    This calls for some HAND-WAVING!1!!1!!1!one!

    ...

    You see, Imoen is a special Bhaalspawn. She has what is called a Divinistic Immortalaristic Implotdevistic Complex, which makes her immune to all this losing essence stuff and disintegration, allowing her to be resurrected.

    BAM! Problem solved. Now we can all sleep soundly...

    ChowatcDaveWiggles
  • OzzyBotkinsOzzyBotkins Member Posts: 396
    Imoen was special ,a different kind of Bhaalspawn
    I believe that she may have been the daughter of a Bhaalspawn and maybe the last one that was born

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 679
    I'm inclined to believe that the disintegration cutscenes are artistic licence. The Bhaalspawn you kill in BG2 don't disintegrate when they die.

    I always assumed that when you die your Bhaalspawn goes back to the pool. So even if you could get resurrected, so the story of the Bhaalspawn (and hence the game) is over.

    atcDave
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    Mr. "There are others, I can show you... please... PLEASE!" didn't disintegrate. He just bled out in to the logo.

    Kholdstare
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Bigfish said:

    Mr. "There are others, I can show you... please... PLEASE!" didn't disintegrate. He just bled out in to the logo.

    Nor do the Bhaalspawn in ToB. It's just a stylized device, nothing to take literally.

  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 685
    Bigfish said:

    Mr. "There are others, I can show you... please... PLEASE!" didn't disintegrate. He just bled out in to the logo.

    That's because of a grave misunderstanding that sort of escalated: The guy thought that Sarevok was a tax investigator...

    atcDave
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,126
    edited March 2013
    IkMarc said:

    scriver said:


    @IkMarc -
    I always felt the death movie was symbolic. Regardless, the final movie isn't about Sarevok's body disintegrating, it's just a statue of him.

    The death movie isn't symbolic and Sarevok's body does disintegrate in the end movie.
    That video that shows Sarevok disintegrating when he dies shows his helmet and stuff falling apart. This is clearly one of those time lapse photos thingy effects. CHARNAME kills Sarevok then just leaves his corpse there in the Bhaal symbol and boom jump forward 2 years, his body has disintegrated and helmet has fell apart and his essence has twinkle dusted back to Bhaal.

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    IMO the disintegration is symbolic of the bhaal essence leaving the body, not the body actually disintegrating. Sarevok's armour was tuned to his essence, which is why it breaks apart in the end scene

    as for Imoen: because the body doesn't actually disintegrate she can be raised, but without her bhaal essence. the game can't calculate how many times (or at all) a character has been killed/raised and so simply assumes that they've never been killed

    this is why imoen wears her belt of no death in the opening dungeon. the game assumes that imoen wasn't killed in BG, then she's taken to Spellhold and has her soul and essence stolen

    then when she gets her soul back she can die as much as she likes and still be raised, because by the end of ToB it doesn't matter where her essence, because Charname claims it all in the end anyway

  • Jared4242Jared4242 Member Posts: 130
    Can we just get one of the bloody writers in here, to answer this question?

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    Jared4242 said:

    Can we just get one of the bloody writers in here, to answer this question?

    Is there even a "canon" answer to this? Has it been covered in other Forgotten Realms or BG supplemental material?

  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
    edited March 2013
    I guess it's another hint that the Bhaalspawn min maxes.
    Have you looked at Sarevok's stats?

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