Kitting NPC's, what would you change?
Debaser
Member Posts: 669
Edited this list after reading peoples suggestions / putting more thought into it all, wanted to thank the following people who posted: @Nifft @FrozenCells @KidCarnival @Darrylson @The_Shairs_Handbook @Fardragon, as well as the rest of you guys for making me rethink this.
I decided to make my list playable legal kits, etc. Since some suggestions were to have a kitted multi-class I streamlined to the kit as a solo build, so characters like Yeslick, Montarion and Coran in my list become solo classes. The exception to the rule was Khalid, whom was changed to a multi-class, but I think it makes him so much better. Here's my revised list.
Characters that shouldn't be changed:
Imoen - Thief (Since she does get dual classed/becomes an arch-mage)
Kagain - Fighter (He's more a mercenary type, in retrospect I agree with that)
And all the rest....
Warrior Classes:
Ajantis - Cavalier - (I think he fits this kind of mentality over an inquisitor but he could still serve Helm)
Kivan - Archer (It's really what he should be)
Khalid - Fighter/Mage (I actually think he'd be such a better character this way that I am going to try it out)
Minsc - Barbarian (I would say Berserker, but maybe this really does fit more)
Shar-Teel - Berserker (She's controlled and focus in her rage against men)
Yeslick - Dwarven Defender (Single Class, yes he stops being a cleric...but I think this fits him more story-wise)
Rogue Clases:
Garrick - Skald (For his quest to pen a great epic song)
Eldoth - Jester (Because as people have said, he thinks everyone is an idiot but him)
Montarion - Assassin (Single Classed, fits his demeanor / mission more, like he was sent to kill the harpers)
Safana - Swashbuckler (Didn't realize it until someone said it but it fits)
Skie - Shadowdancer (Dancing background, and makes her worth the effort to get)
Coran - Bounty Hunter (Single Classed, and it would keep him from being overpowered with +++ in Bows like he normally gets put back to +, or maybe two ++ if you still want to give him one extra than he should get...and it totally fits his story line / character)
Alora - Blade (Make her a clepto Bard who can fight a bit scrappy maybe? She's a pickpocket...not a great singer...and not really a murdering ruffian thief type either...plus it'd make her more interesting)
Clerics/Druids/Monks:
Rasaad - Sun Soul Monk (It really is what he describes himself to be!)
Faldorn - Avenger (Everyone here seems unanimous in this as fitting)
I decided to make my list playable legal kits, etc. Since some suggestions were to have a kitted multi-class I streamlined to the kit as a solo build, so characters like Yeslick, Montarion and Coran in my list become solo classes. The exception to the rule was Khalid, whom was changed to a multi-class, but I think it makes him so much better. Here's my revised list.
Characters that shouldn't be changed:
Imoen - Thief (Since she does get dual classed/becomes an arch-mage)
Kagain - Fighter (He's more a mercenary type, in retrospect I agree with that)
And all the rest....
Warrior Classes:
Ajantis - Cavalier - (I think he fits this kind of mentality over an inquisitor but he could still serve Helm)
Kivan - Archer (It's really what he should be)
Khalid - Fighter/Mage (I actually think he'd be such a better character this way that I am going to try it out)
Minsc - Barbarian (I would say Berserker, but maybe this really does fit more)
Shar-Teel - Berserker (She's controlled and focus in her rage against men)
Yeslick - Dwarven Defender (Single Class, yes he stops being a cleric...but I think this fits him more story-wise)
Rogue Clases:
Garrick - Skald (For his quest to pen a great epic song)
Eldoth - Jester (Because as people have said, he thinks everyone is an idiot but him)
Montarion - Assassin (Single Classed, fits his demeanor / mission more, like he was sent to kill the harpers)
Safana - Swashbuckler (Didn't realize it until someone said it but it fits)
Skie - Shadowdancer (Dancing background, and makes her worth the effort to get)
Coran - Bounty Hunter (Single Classed, and it would keep him from being overpowered with +++ in Bows like he normally gets put back to +, or maybe two ++ if you still want to give him one extra than he should get...and it totally fits his story line / character)
Alora - Blade (Make her a clepto Bard who can fight a bit scrappy maybe? She's a pickpocket...not a great singer...and not really a murdering ruffian thief type either...plus it'd make her more interesting)
Clerics/Druids/Monks:
Rasaad - Sun Soul Monk (It really is what he describes himself to be!)
Faldorn - Avenger (Everyone here seems unanimous in this as fitting)
Post edited by Debaser on
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Comments
Imoen- Always made more sense to me as a Bard than a Thief. Since the only thievery she ever alludes to is picking the pockets of Candlekeep's monks, I think it still fits. Maybe a Skald if I'm forced to pick a kit.
Minsc- Berserker, since I feel he should be able to wear plate armor.
Dynaheir- Could make sense as a Sorcerer, since magic in Rasheman seems to be more primal and instinctual than academic like a Wizard's magic is.
Khalid- Fighter/Mage as he was intended to be.
Safana- Swashbuckler since she's spent most of her life at sea, and is highly charismatic.
Montaron- Assassin or Assassin/Fighter illegal multiclass. From a gameplay perspective the former might be better so his thief skills won't develop so slowly, 15 points per level is a big hit.
Skie- Shadowdancer due to her past as a ballet dancer.
Yeslick- Dwarven Defender/Cleric illegal multiclass. Might be a tad OP, but the DD kit makes more sense for him than Kagain in my personal opinion.
Faldorn- Avenger, her shitty physical stats and her mentality towards protecting nature justifies this one pretty well.
That's all I can think of anyway.
Khalid was intended as a fighter/mage? I was unaware, that would have made him so much more useful...
Imoen - I see no kit making much sense with the backstory in Candlekeep, except making her a vanilla bard
Edolth - Jester, fits his personality perfectly; he likes to make others look foolish and belittles people
Garrick - is fine as he is, but I could see him as a skald because he's more "bardy" than Eldoth and composing ballads about great adventures, where Eldoth is, personality-wise, closer to a manipulative thief (hence he'd be a better fit for the kit with the special bard song)
Safana - Swashbuckler; charismatic, pirate-y backstory
Skie - Shadowdancer fits with the dancer backstory, and because she really needs something to make her more appealing, seeing how late she becomes available
Dynaheir - sorcerer would fit, but not kitted; there's nothing pointing to a dragon diciple
Monty - assassin/fighter illegal multi. His personality screams assassin, but I interpret his fighter side as the evil party counterpart to Minsc as Dynaheir's bodyguard (and the Red Wizards you encounter with Neera also have fighter type bodyguards). Therefore, taking away his fighter side and making him an assassin only would feel wrong to me.
Faldorn - Avenger fits, and she'd need something more compelling than the wolf summon to be really interesting.
Shar-Teel - Berzerker fits, though she's fine without a kit; she's a very versatile NPC as it is.
Alora - can't see her with a thief kit at all, unless she'd get a custom "Burglar" kit (something with lock picking and moving silently, I guess?), but she's not a backstabber - or even a killer, as far as her personality is concerned.
Coran - might work as illegal Bounty Hunter/Fighter, drawing from his quest to hunt the wyvern. He's fine as he is.
Kivan - fine as he is; just because his portrait screams archer he shouldn't be forced into that role (especially because he'd still be second to Coran, that would be a bit silly).
Kagain - can't see him as a dwarfen defender. If I had to give him a kit, I'd make up "Mercenary" - special ability: gains 1 gold for each kill. Nothing else fits in his case.
Rasaad - Sun Soul Monk, if only to keep it "fair" (Dorn and Neera have kits, too).
Yeslick - better fit for Dwarven Defender, but yeah... DD/cleric could end up quite OP.
More than all those, I'd like to see new kits (or translations of PnP kits) for the clerics, to be "Priest of (deity)" with abilities like kitted charname clerics get, i.e. Branwen as Priest of Tempus, with a berzerk ability, and improvements to the mage "kits", i.e. Edwin as Red Wizard of Thay and make at least SOME spells of their school mandatory. Have them have all spells of their school in their book, one must be memorized per level. That would make the mages feel more like specialists, rather than "bleh, can't cast Identify/Fireball/Invisibility/younameit".
There are a few options, but a few really REALLY stick out in my mind.
Faldorn--Avenger: seems pretty obvious why, it would explain her suckish stats and her fanaticism.
Minsc--Berserker: this would make me use him as he would be better in combat, and it makes more sense to me.
Branwen--Fighter dualed to cleric: yes she is short on stats, but a 2 point bump to strength and a 1 point bump to wisdom at her crap levels wouldn't matter, and it would make her "warrior-prest" background have some more merit given she sucks in combat.
Plenty of others listed previously, and mine aren't original. Just my thoughts.
Safana spins tale upon tale involving fantastic liaisons with pirate captains, nobles, and royalty of all shapes and sizes.
I actually think Berserker fits Shar-Teel perfectly. She is so violent. Plus, its the same class as she is now, except she can only become proficient in a Missile Wep. That's actually a bit of a nerf for her, given her dex, and I'm fine with that because like you said she's so versatile already. I'd love to have her dual-wielding longswords and go Enrage.
There's no way Kagain's a Dwarven Defender. Doesn't fit him at all really.
Coran is fine as is, I agree with your second point there.
Yeah just best to leave Yeslick alone
Montaron as an Fighter/Assassin - What a *kick ass* idea. My inner AD&D 1st Edition screams with approval! LOL.
Yeah - More priest-kits of specific deities would be *awesome*. They could take many of the abilities right out of Faiths and Avatars. You should record that as a feature request man.
Kivan - Stalker because it's more of a track and hunt Ranger which fits better Kivan's mission of revenge. I think he should also be Chaotic Neutral having lost his way a bit and worshipping Sheverash but that's entirely personal preference.
Minsc - Barbarian. Beserker is described as having a very controlled type of rage. Minsc is just unstable.
Faldorn - Avenger, kit description seems to fit best a Shadow Druid.
Skie - Swashbuckler, if we want to keep her a thief, due to her acrobats.
Alora - plain Thief, don't really see anything better for her.
Montaron - Fighter/Thief or Fighter/Assassin. He's quite obviously Xzar's bodyguard and probably works as an Assassin since he's a self designated loner killer. I don't think a pure Assassin would be appropriate to work as a bodyguard.
Xan - Fighter/Mage or Fighter/Enchanter. Apart from making sense to utilise his Moonblade best, it would be ironic that poor depressed Xan has to train to be a warrior despite his sucky constitution and only wanting to study magic, due to the responsibilites of being a Greycloak Moonblade-wielder.
3/4 of the suggestions in this thread just don't fit and are changes just for the sake of it.
Just shows the potentially detrimental effect of making kits more powerful than base classes.
I think people are eager to suggest kits for the NPCs because it gives them more definition and personality, or builds on the little they already have. In BG2, where NPCs have more personality and banters, it's not so important anymore. In BG1, the NPCs are mostly limited to a few banter lines and a mini quest - and there is a legion of them. Giving some of them kits would help to set them apart from other, same-class NPCs, both for roleplay concepts and for more fine tuning in party composition.
For example, Skie isn't a bad thief, but there is absolutely nothing that justifies jumping through all the loops to get her. You can have Safana, another neutral aligned decent thief, much earlier, without taking another NPC along - and Safana comes with the quite useful charm ability. You also get Imoen and Montaron right away - your thief needs are already covered; both are very strong and flexible NPCs. You can also dual Shar-Teel and there's your 4th option. If Skie had a kit with a clear focus on a strategy and would suit a party type much better than the non-kitted thieves, she might be worth the trouble.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15188/kitting-the-npcs
Ajantis - Inquisitor
Ajantis was sent by Keldorn and is in Keldorn's order. HELM YEAH!
Kivan - Archer
Yes. One point in Halberds, one point in Two-Handed Weapon Style, and two points in Longbow.
Garrick - NG Skald
Edolth - NE Jester
Notice how Garrick is a white knight who sticks up for abused girls and tells everyone how glorious life can be? He's not a bright knight, true, but he seems rather Good to me, since he is all about saving others and gaining glory. When he discovers he was being tricked by Silke, he immediately tries to make amends by serving CHARNAME. Why Skald? Two reasons: first off, the aforementioned "glory" stuff. Very skaldish. The second reason is that being a Skald makes him useful in combat.
Eldoth sees other people as idiots ("you're so dumb"), and the power granted to Jesters makes enemies act like idiots. He would be all over that kit like blood on Bhaal.
Khalid - Fighter / Diviner (illegal)
Someone in the earlier thread pointed out that Khalid's Intelligence was high because he was originally intended to be a F/M multiclass. Not wearing armor is a great reason for him to chicken out in melee.
Rasasad - Sun Soul Monk
He's going to be a poor choice no matter which kit he gets.
Minsc - Ranger
He's a Ranger with one special power.
Faldorn - Avenger
Yep, her stats sure look like those of an Avenger.
Shar-Teel - Berserker
Give her a two-handed weapon proficiency, too.
Kagain - Fighter
Since so many other Fighters got kits, keeping some vanilla adds to the variety.
Rogue Round-Up
There are a lot of thieves in BG1. There are way more Thieves than kits. We can get around that limitation by illegally multi-classing some of the kits.
Montaron - Fighter / Assassin (illegal)
Monty is much too evil to be a mere thief, he just screams Assassin or Bounty Hunter to me, and all the throat-slitting he talks about pushes him farther into Assassin.
Imoen - Swashbuckler
My mental model of Imoen is not very back-stabby, but otherwise she's a great generalist.
Safana - Half-Elf Fighter/Swashbuckler (illegal)
This kit combo would be blatantly over-powered by the end of SoA, but for BG1 levels it's pretty reasonable, and fits Safana's backstory quite well. She could also go Human Fighter 2 > Swashbuckler 2 (which is why she wants your help, she's at the painful part of dual classing).
Skie - Shadowdancer
Her backstory is that she's a dancer, and "Shadowdancer" has "dancer" right in the kit name. I don't take her usually so I can't justify the kit better than that.
Alora - Thief
By the time we meet her, Imoen is probably a dual-class mage, so having a vanilla Thief with good skill allocation is a boon.
Why else would you take Safana if Imoen does all the same stuff, but Imoen is your (in-character) friend since forever and Safana is just some stranger you met in the woods?
Is that a trick question?
I edited my post up top really factoring in your list as well as some key input from others...tell me what you think?
Faldorn - Avenger. Militant force of nature. This has been discussed already by several others.
Kivan - Archer. Duh.
Kagain - Dwarven Defender. No real rationale here besides variety, although considering how sturdy he is, I would say having this kind of special training fits, and kind of suggests an interesting backstory.
These threads are interesting, as long as people discuss the reasons for their choices. For example, I didn't discuss Coran because IMHO he's already interesting as an (illegal) Fighter/Thief, but if I did change him, it would be to make him a Fighter/Bounty Hunter with the same illegal Bows *** proficiency and 20 Dexterity. But he's fine as-is, so it's not really important.
Now I kind of want to play a game with Coran, Safana, Imoen and some kind of rogue-ish CHARNAME... we'd pick-pocket our way across the Sword Coast.
Montaron - Assassin (Single Classed, fits his demeanor / mission more, like he was sent to kill the harpers)
Absolutely not. He is Xzar's bodyguard (if he likes it or not), therefore he needs the fighter side to make sense.
Alora - Blade (Make her a clepto Bard who can fight a bit scrappy maybe? She's a pickpocket...not a great singer...and not really a murdering ruffian thief type either...plus it'd make her more interesting)
With 8 strength, a fighter type bard? She's also a burglar more than anything, and there's no kit for that.
Branwen - Cleric of Lathander (Fits her alignment and character)
Contradicts everything. Priest of Lathander must be good aligned; she's neutral. Oh, and she's a Priest of Tempus.
But who says an Assassin couldn't be sent to guard Xzar and dispose of him afterward. =P
Alora is up in the air, I just never use her. *shrug*
Oh I like that art! Are there any more by that artist of the BG cast?