Do you feel that requests around difficulty are missing?
bill_zagoudis
Member Posts: 207
I'm really surprised by the fact that people are asking for all these trivial stuff,yet no talk about game difficulty, some months ago i made a thread myself with pretty medium success,so:
don't you people want a better and more meaningfull challenge in the combat part of the game?(not just extra monster damage,which can be countered by having multiclass mages tank with stoneskin/mirroirmage etc)
a 'heart of fury' mode would bring up extreme soloing challenge,will make multiplayer much more interesting and will bring veterans back into thinking 'how do i beat this guy'? something all of us old players have missed since anyone who has completed some playthroughs can beat anything the game has to offer
i know there are mods that make the game harder but it's not the same,it doesn't feel the same and it's tottally subjective as mods are the work of a few if not a single person
isn't better ai,more complicated tactics used by enemies,smarter dispel protection,more adds,tougher primary enemies and extra hard optional encounters with new rewards be something to hope for in BG2 EE?
don't you people want a better and more meaningfull challenge in the combat part of the game?(not just extra monster damage,which can be countered by having multiclass mages tank with stoneskin/mirroirmage etc)
a 'heart of fury' mode would bring up extreme soloing challenge,will make multiplayer much more interesting and will bring veterans back into thinking 'how do i beat this guy'? something all of us old players have missed since anyone who has completed some playthroughs can beat anything the game has to offer
i know there are mods that make the game harder but it's not the same,it doesn't feel the same and it's tottally subjective as mods are the work of a few if not a single person
isn't better ai,more complicated tactics used by enemies,smarter dispel protection,more adds,tougher primary enemies and extra hard optional encounters with new rewards be something to hope for in BG2 EE?
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You say that mods are subjective because they're made by only a few/a single person, but it's not like Overhaul is a terribly large group of people either. And I'm guessing mod creators get feedback from users which helps them improve the mod. SCS has been around a while, and likely gone through enough iterations to be considered 'objective'.
I'd prefer if the devs would focus on doing things that are difficult/impossible to do through mods.
there are 4 things the devs can do(by contract limitations): fix bugs, add side stories,minor cosmetic changes and improve combat/ai
bug fixing goes without saying and combat is the most important change,followed by adding side quests/companions
-Create new areas
-Add NPCs
-Add new kits
-Add new items
-Make the game more accessible to modders
I think it's a lot easier to simply say what they can't do, namely make any significant changes to existing story/quests/characters, rather than tyring to come up with a list of everything they can do.
Mods that allowed me to recuit NPCs earlier have always been of my favourites. Encouraging more creativity and not forcing you to abandon NPCs you've invested quite some time into outweigh the potential powergaming. Summoning ghasts and Dispel Magics as special abilities low-level is very imbalanced, I know.
Baldur's Gate is already a huge game. Adding new items to otherwise bland areas (like the halberd in the Gnoll Stronghold) that fill out the power gaps from the original is the best way to inject creativity into the player base and encourage them to re-explore every nook and cranny. I know I'd be more willing to re-roll an otherwise overlooked character class/combo if it suited a new item.
Here are some ideas:
-Add an Ioun Stone as a reward for defeating the Red Wizards
-A new Helmet or Belt as a reward for clearing the Basilisk Forest or the Shipwreck
-Change some of the cursed items in the game into items you may actually consider using. The Vampiric Sword should be something awesome considering what you go through to get it.
-A magical club that improves spaeshifted forms as a reward for returning a Wyveren head to the Temple
-Give a magic spear to the Flaming Fist soldier you can kill to save Samuel's life
-Cleric and/or Druid only wands
You can also always play a limited reload or no reload game if you want a challenge. Or no stat reroll on character creation
I'd rather Overhaul devote their limited time and resources to changes that modders can't provide. I've found the new NPCs to be vastly superior to the ones modded into BG and BG2 over the past decade in terms of writing and unique flavor, and additions like the Black Pits aren't something that modders can provide. Demanding that the developers provide us with difficulty enhancements would involve them putting forth many man-hours of testing and programming to accomplish a goal that has already been met by multiple third-parties.
Yeah you can even use workarounds to have proper different language (there is still no dubb, there was very big delays of text updates too[it wasn't translators' fall because they updated files on the forum]) but does it mean that everybody should use this bad and not proper solution to get what you expect from the game?
I don't mean to offend or stand against any mods but don't be silly when somebody asks for feature so that means only that the main game is lacking of proper AI and everybody would agree with it (You also agree with this sentence since you use SCS). And I can think about SCS as a workaround of the problem not a solution. It would be nice if they would invent their own AI system rather than implement SCS, but surely it will never happen, and implementing SCS is still only a possibility. Pretty sad story.
Edit: I had to correct my mistakes.
Also for those complaining about the difficulty level of the mods in question: I have rarely heard someone complain that a game was too hard to beat. Generally people just apply themselves more and appreciate the challenge. I have however heard countless of complaints from people saying games were too easy and they just breezed right through.
It is much better if it stays as mod, because that way everyone can choose exactly what to install. You can also add/remove components for different playthrough or even choose another mod.
How that's not better? Why some people are so afraid of mods?
Edit: I'm not afraid of new things, I just believe that these new things would be more flexible if implemented as mods.
Sounds like a tall order to me.
I'm not scared of change, and in a perfect world I'd love this request. But my primary want for Overhaul is for them to add new content to an already fantastic game and for the enhanced editions of that game to be more easily used than the originals.
If they have the time and the resources for this sort of thing, I'll completely change my answer. If a developer appears in this thread and mentions that they're thinking about this or have already begun it, I'll be excited. But I doubt that will happen, for two reasons, the first being that it sounds very difficult to do.
The second reason is that mods already fill this niche. And before you reiterate that "there are mods for everything", let me follow up with the fact that mods vary WILDLY in quality. Check out the massive hate threads for NPC mods like Saerileth or Chloe, and think about how lucky we are that we get Dorn instead. But SCS is extremely well-received, so why fix what isn't broken?
but mods and core game improvements are something different,mods are meant to add flavour to the game improvements are features that are simply superb to what we had before (if implementing SCS is the way too go i have no objection as long as it works smoothly and the devs make sure it will come timely)
currently the game ai is not that much of an opponent for anyone who has played his share of RPG's
and neither is difficulty for it's simply not difficult you just have to use the right spell at the right opponent, and like this any fight is trivialised (for instance Mind Flayers can be extremely diffucult unless you summon a couple of mordenkaiken's swords to cut the in pieces,while your party sits backs and watches,for beholders you pick shield of balduran and let them kill themselves,for vampires you just need a character immunue to level drain,for liches(demi or not) usually a spell immunity does the trick etc,
you get the idea
all these stuff were very interesting to think at first( i was pretty satisfied when i thought that these floating swords have no mind to affect) but now this excitement of discovery is gone and the fights are trivial if you know the tricks,playing sucky characters on purpose(such as the roll 75 challegne) or imposing other self-made restrictions is not the satisfiction someone who wants to combine RP and powergaming elements is looking for(for instance i will always built my fighter properly but i would never pick a half-orc), also soloing is not fun,why? cause i like my party and that's why i'm asking for a better challenge and i would appreciate if this was without having to w8 for mods to reach their final version or worry about their compatability and when finally bg2 ee comes out guess what? wait again some months for the tactics mod to be implemented in EE
also all those lovely additions to the game(items,NPCs,quests) make the vanilla game even easier
having Baeloth and Dorn are simply op in bg standards,also we find too many magical items now,for instance in the vanilla game only one of our fighters had the +1hit +2 damage gloves,now all of them do,
also we now have kits and some of them are too strong in BG
some extra difficulty is due at least to compensate for all the new toys and companions and XP we get
ps: if ai is that hard to implement then there is a simpler solution, increase number of nameless mobs in most fights,increase HP of 'bosses',give powerfull casters level 10 spells
Secondly, I never spoke specificly about SCS in any way, although the discussion was leaning in that direction. I was speaking in favor of a general AI improvement, and to improvements of the game in general. SCS could be one way to go, or just something to have in mind or do something else entirely. Either way I do believe an AI upgrade would benefit everyone. You could still change difficulties.
Thirdly to adress your counter of people being afraid of mods: I believe that a game, and especially a good game such as Baldur's gate, should feel complete on its own without relying heavily on third party content. The third parties in this case being people lovingly creating something for free in their spare time, which we are all grateful for don't get me wrong. But they are a) slower, b) in no way obliged to keep their mods up to date and c) more inclined to mess up your game than something created by the devs. If the devs create something, we can be fairly sure it's compatible with the rest of the content. Something we can never know with mods.
Lastly: most users don't want the inconvenience of messing about with mods if they can help it. They want to push the launch button and sit down and enjoy the magic. Not to spend their evenings installing and uninstalling things in the right orders to make it work. But they do still want new and improved content with the EE.
I am not saying mods shouldn't exist. But I think genuine improvements to the engine, game mechanics and UI etc should be dev territory. Mods should be for flavour such as additional romances, custom npcs, kits etc.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. And I am not flawless either
Just as I said earlier, I would like to have newly invented better than original BG AI-system.
How it would be implemented is totally different case, it can be SCS* or it can be fresh new Artificial Intelligence that rule them all - it is decision up to somebody else.
I have a dream that one day enemies will be the challenge and much better than SCS. I would like to encourage others to freely express their opinion!
Post Scriptum I also use mods but as bill_zagoudis and Stickan mentioned already mods are totally different case
Post Post Scriptum I never said SCS is bad and don't believe those who say otherwise!
Respectfully I disagree. You may find below my comments to your previous post. I wouldn't be against that in principle. The most important aspect for me is to be able to freely choose how to play the game, i.e whether vanilla (for people that like the game exactly as it is and as it was for the last 15 years) or modified in several ways. Whether this is achieved through mods or in-game option settings, it doesn't really matter to me. However, I still believe mods could provide more variety than any implementation of the in-game difficulty setting. I believe that the game as it is now already provides a very good base on which we can build using mods. Yes there are still few things that can be improved and cannot be modded, but difficulty it isn't IMHO one of them. I can assure you that a well designed WeiDU mod has a lower chance of causing problems than the standard BGEE version updates. Of course, there may be bad mods out there too, but it's not like the devs never make mistakes. Tethtoril, I'm talking to you
What really matters is that changes are implemented through well written code, it doesn't matters if the author is a modder or a developer. Besides, now most of the devs are modders and vice versa. Did you ever installed a WeiDU mod? It takes few seconds at most and the mods or their individual components can be easily switched on/off at any moment. You should really try, if you didn't already.
Granted for iPad users (and in lesser extent for Mac users too) it may be a bit more complicated, but things are progressing fast and this is likely bound to change soon. I agree with you only on the engine part. For game mechanics my previous comments on difficulty also apply. That UI can be and should be improved also by mods has been brilliantly demonstrated by @Archaic and his excellent mod.
I have played BG vanilla since it's release, in various states and in the BGT format and have made use of many different, and brilliant, mods (UB, Ascension, Tweakpacks, SCS, additional NPCs etc etc). I'm just saying that I think you'll find that the average user doesn't do that, and as such might miss out on a lot of what the game means to people who take certain mods for granted when playing the game.
I disagree with the opinion that people playing BG EE should have the possibility of playing the game just like it was in Vanilla BG (Vanilla BG is still out there for those who want it untouched, but of course not for all platforms), that is not the point of making an enhanced edition.
To clarify, when I said that BG should not be changed (if not through mods), I meant gameplay and content.
Of course, I'm OK with enhancements concerning engine code optimization and increased compatibility with modern Operative Systems and new Screen Resolutions.
Last but not least, BGEE is already easier to mod than vanilla BG. What the devs should really be doing IMHO, is making BGEE even easier to mod (e.g. removing hard coded restrictions, etc.).
I was going to type a book, but I'll spare you all. Basically, I'm for increased AI built into the game. Most of the people here are probably long-time fans, or above the age of 14. We've all beaten this game to death with and without mods. Tutu and vanilla. SCS and Tactics. A new challenge in an enhanced version of the game is perfectly reasonable, I think.