What are the six least powerful classes/kits in BGEE you could construct a team from?

Wanderon

I'm thinking about a low power group for a minimal reload run (MP/solo) and would like some opinions on possible class/kit choices for it. I'd probably want to include at least one from each of the main classes (warrior, preist, mage, thief).

FinneousPJ

Hmm. Maybe something like this

Beastmaster OR Wizard Slayer
Shapeshifter
Invoker
Bard OR Bounty Hunter

If you want a six person party change OR to AND

Wanderon

FinneousPJ said:

Hmm. Maybe something like this

Beastmaster OR Wizard Slayer
Shapeshifter
Invoker
Bard OR Bounty Hunter

If you want a six person party change OR to AND

Haven't fooled with shapeshifter at all so I guess you're inferring they were gimped from BG2?

What about some sort of thief type?

atcDave

This is really an intriguing challenge. Make it a no re-roll challenge on character creation for bonus points! I can't really argue with Finneous' suggestions. Although I might add Undead Hunter or Inquisitor to the list, just because they don't really come into their own until BG2.
I think any party, well played, can beat the game. But this looks guaranteed to give you every disadvantage possible!

atcDave

Oh you could also a monk to the list! They seem very underpowered at this level.

ryuken87

WS, beastmaster, vanilla thief, vanilla cleric, vanilla druid/shapeshifter, vanilla bard and transmuter I'd say are the worst options.

FinneousPJ

Wanderon said:

Haven't fooled with shapeshifter at all so I guess you're inferring they were gimped from BG2?

What about some sort of thief type?

The werewolf form isn't that good and you can't wear any armor when unshifted. You don't get the greater werewolf at all in BGEE. For a thief I recommended the Bounty Hunter which isn't that amazing IMO.

Fardragon

6 wizard slayers.

Dragonfolk2000

I'm going to not mention the new kits since no one has really messed with them yet. I would say that any kind of druid would be low on the tier list since their spell list is poor and shapeshifting is useless (with Avenger being the best among them followed shortly by Totemist). I would also consider the fighter/druid combination poor (maybe more so than the Avenger) and a pure cleric is also a waste of time.

I am now putting forth the suggestion that we construct two tier lists for BG:EE. We should (as a community) discuss and vote on which classes and class combinations are the best. There would be two lists: one for party roles and one for soloing the game. We should consider all options, including whether or not comparable races are any good with them, items and options within the game, and the metagame of glitches that are currently in place (such as the shadowdancer's broken backstab or the cleric/ranger's ability to cast both druid and cleric spells). We should determine multiclass and dual class combinations separately as there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Does anyone want to put this together?

ryuken87

Not sure why people are saying BH over a vanilla thief. Special traps are really good and since you get some bonus points in set traps you only end up 30 points worse of by the end of the game (and in fact have more than a vanilla thief for the first few levels).

KidCarnival

I tried a Dragon Diciple and picked only melee spells (Shocking Grasp and Ghoul Touch as first spells). I don't know how useless it might be at higher levels or if there are enough "not so good" spells, but on lower levels, the AC bonus and fire resistance is no advantage, you have less spells than a sorcerer, can't wear any armor, have limited weapon choices and the breath weapon has one use a day and a good chance to also hurt your party. It's not a bad kit by default, but taking it as your only arcane caster would seriously gimp your party with a poor spell selection and no chance to learn more useful things from scrolls.

helmo1977

Dual class is the way to go if you want to powergaming.

Make a

Blade/fighter
Archer/wizard
Wizard slayer/thief
Berserker/cleric

Another dual class fighter and wizard of your choice

FinneousPJ

Did you even read the thread?

BTW, Blade/Fighter is, unfortunately, not possible in this game.

helmo1977

FinneousPJ said:

Did you even read the thread?

BTW, Blade/Fighter is, unfortunately, not possible in this game.

Oh, i missed the low power part. Sorry.

A pity blade/fighter is not possible. I have always thought it might be a great combo

Tyranus

PC- Shapeshifter
Wizard Slayer 1 -> Mage
Monk
Gnome Cleric/Thief
Fighter/Mage/Cleric
Dragon Disciple

Nifft

3 Monks (one of each kit)
Wizard Slayer
Beastmaster
... I dunno, Halfling Cleric?

wadce

If i were going to do this challenge i would probably go with

Fighter
Wizslayer - equipment restrictions should make this self explanatory.

Cleric
Fighter/mage/cleric - as the party cleric, it has too many classes with not enough complementary abilities. Also it's healing progression will be greatly slowed due to the split

Rogue
Shadowdancer - this came to me because of the idea that in order to make use of it's nifty new special abilities, it needs to actually be able to hide in shadows, but as the party thief, it needs to be able to pick locks and find traps. With a limited point pool, you will need to take every +% into account to make this guy work on both fields.

Mage
Dragon Disciple - The bonus con is worthless on a character with a cap to bonus hps. The limited spell selection is enough of a huge handicap, and you better be good at aiming with the breathweapon. Since your tank is a wizslayer, you'll have trouble getting his fire resistance high enough to not care.

Extra(s) *the first two are my personal picks*
Dualed Stalker/cleric - While the ranger/cleric is super cool, *I believe* the stalker cleric will have restricted armor lessening its tankability, have to use a club/staff if it wants to use its backstab killing either proficiencies in useful weapons or its dual wield abilities Also the stalker is more annoying to level up from my experience. I've actually really wanted to try this out for fun because its the fighter/cleric/thief I've always wanted!

Jester - Everyone says it sucks. I like having a bard and this is the "worst kit"

Druids - Pick a kit, everyone seems to say they all make the class worse anyways.

Dual classes into Fighter - While fighter classes dualing to anything else will work, many have problems going the other way.

Race/class combos that are counter intuitive stat wise. Example : Halfling fighters, Gnome pure cleric (no 21 wis for you!), etc.

Wanderon

Good suggestions - just finished a 12 hour work day will have to look at them all again in the morning when my brain is (hopefully ) working again...

Lemernis

Here's my list:

• Monk for sure.
• The much maligned Wizard Slayer because one can't use most magical items. I still want to see how one performs dual-wielding the two enchanted axes in BG:EE that are legal for a WS. (But when I try this out eventually I will be dualing mine to Thief to launch attacks by backstabbing with the Dagger of Venom, then switch to the axes.)
• Whatever is arguably the most gimped Specialist Mage. If you impose a self-limitation of casting *only* the spells from that specialization school, then my vote would go to Diviner (who can't scribe Find Familiar either, because Conjuration is off limits).
• Beastmaster, I suppose. (I've never actually tried one, myself.)
• Maybe a dwarven Thief of some kind? A clumsy Swashbuckler?
• An Archer that uses the sling? (That still might turn out to be a pretty effective character, though.)

Wanderon

After some more ..... experiments....

I am pretty satisfied with these four:

Solari - Sun Soul Monkey - 18 - 18 - 18 - 10 - 10 - 16 \ *katana * single weapon style

Wee Willie Wizardbane - Halfling WS - 17 - 19 - 18 - 10 - 10 - 9 \ ** Short Sword * sling * S & S

Verili Vermillion - Elf Dragon Disciple - 14 - 19 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 15\ * dart

Arachna Human Avenger - 14 - 18 - 15 - 8 - 18 - 15 \ *spear *sling



I am tentatively thinking about these two to fill the thief and misc slots left:

Silliani Shadeseeker - elf Shadowdancer - 16 - 19 - 16 - 11- 12 - 12 / * short bow * longsword

Yellowhawk - Human Beastmaster 18/59 - 18 - 16 - 8 - 18 - 7 \ *club * sling ** SWS **TWS



The reasoning behind the Shadowdancer is as the only party thief the nerf to thief points means stealth (the strength of the kit) will be essentially nerfed until locks and traps are filled out altho I'm a little concerned that may not end up being as much of a nerf as it seems.

I like playing with two preist types so Yellowhawk is scheduled for a dual to cleric either at level 2 or 3 - the only question I have about her is whether the beastmaster really nerfs the ranger/cleric enough to put it down in the low power category.

One option I am considering is swapping in a Cleric/thief or F/M/T for the SD to slow the thief progression as a nerf...

If I go with a cleric/thief then leaving Yellowhawk as a Beastmaster (no cleric dual) should make both work which is a nice easy fix for both.

If I go with F/M/T then I'm not sure if I should swap out Yellowhawk for a different preist type or let her stay as is.

I guess It's time for more.... experiments...


BTW I am not interested much in nerfing stats (intentionally) but I did decide from the start to limit stat rerolls to an even dozen.


Edit: Replaced the SD with a gnome Cleric/thief and will leave Yellowhawk as Beastmaster (no dual).

Tinker Gnome Cleric/Thief - 18 - 18 - 16 - 10 - 17 - 10 / *Mace * sling

Will probably journal their efforts in the Minimal reload thread once I'm certain I am going to stay with these 6.

DJKajuru

Six fighter/mage/thieves - they'll take ages to level up hahahaha!

atcDave

DJKajuru said:

Six fighter/mage/thieves - they'll take ages to level up hahahaha!

Make one of them a fighter/mage/cleric and I think you've got a winner!

Kaltzor

Weakest Party?

With the regular XP cap and no kits edited I suppose something along the lines of:

Wizard Slayer (Giving away the ability to use magical items for 1% magic resistance per level, totally worth it?)

Bounty Hunter (Because proficient in weapon for fighting is good right? And less thief skills is always good too right?)

Shapeshifter (I mean, they have such an awesomely powerful shapeshift that almost gets the abilities werewolves get...)

Fighter/Cleric/Mage (Ridiculous stat roll required, slow leveling since XP gets shared between 3 classes, being able to only cast one spell per turn... What's not dislike?)

Monk (Low level monks are like less impressive rangers due to their ability to try to stealth)

Beastmaster (Well, I suppose sitting in the back shooting a bow this might just be the most useful one in this party.)

bill_zagoudis

definately not the wizard slayer sorry for the bluntness but ignore the posts above,wz can shut down any enemy to only auto attacks in a single round with whirlwind(that includes beholders,liches,Irenicus,Melissan,dragons etc),the people who find him sucky try to play him with belm+critical and therefore he has an ac a bit better than kensai dies all the time etc(wz needs a shield as he can use magical shields too), that's how he ends up,but in BG there aren't really any noteweorthy magical items(except for the +1hit+1damage gloves,you'll live without them),also note wz can use tomes,pots,boots of haste,magical helmets,lastly throwing axes with whirlwind are just op if thrown from a wz,100% spell fail in one round without even getting close,what else do you want from 1/6 of your party? all spells and abilities shut down in a single round and forever+will end with 100% MR + he hits like a fighter+ d10 hp, as i have posted before Belm is just a backstab weapon...

underpowered in bg1 are: all triple classes,monks,dual classes that will spend like 3/4 of the game being level 1-3,jesters,bounty hunters also are more of a lategame thief

also the beastmaster's only real drawback is that they can't weare metal armor
the metal weapons prohibition is just flavour both in BG and later in BG2 there are great clubs and staves( in bg +2 in Tob Club of detonation and Staff of the Ram) and you can use all sorts of bows,not that the summon animal is that good of a bonus but he's not really worse than vanilla ranger, he's a guy that can shoot,fight and has some ok summons

Kenji

Assassins

Frosty

while I do understand the dislike of the Beastmaster it is not really a week kit. but the fammiler nurf did hurt it.

Wanderon

Frosty said:

while I do understand the dislike of the Beastmaster it is not really a week kit. but the fammiler nurf did hurt it.

It's not so much weak as it is restricted from using many of the high power items/armors out there - still one can embrace that concept and with a good roll it can certainly hold it's own using the things available to it - and dual class to cleric and it becomes quite powerful.

Xavioria

Are you looking for a low power team for this game only or for the entire trilogy?

Lemernis

@Wanderon How do you plan to approach reloading for this game?

Wanderon

Xavioria said:

Are you looking for a low power team for this game only or for the entire trilogy?

Tentative plan would be this game only - I have a crew assembled and started (see above) but I think they may need tweaking so further suggestions are welcome.

Wanderon

Lemernis said:

@Wanderon How do you plan to approach reloading for this game?

Minimal reload (only when Charname is killed) is pretty much standard fare for me altho I will of course attempt to keep it no reload as long as possible LOL.