In terms of clerics or theives, the options for "low power" are kind of difficult to stem up. I suppose A shapeshifter druid would count as low power for cleric because they can't wear armor... and for the a theif... I want to say assassin... because early on they don't get much in the way of skill points to throw around, so the last two I would add in would be:
Assassin Shapeshifter
I wouldn't add in any type of ranger... even the beast master. Frankly, the beast master is hardly under powered, just fits a niche very tightly to the point where people who don't use him right, or want to use him in a certain manner, can't or don't, therefore seems weak. Then again, they don't gain their animal summoning until later.......
Maybe instead of the above two, try:
Cleric/theif beastmaster
both of which could be archers... or terrible meleers XD
Edit: @Lemernis I don't think a Diviner would be useless for that specific aspect considering only the main character can cast find familiar... I think because you lose Melf's acid arrow and Flame arrow, the specialist becomes gimped...
I have this group in Beregost now with about 1200 exp after clearing the maps from Candlkeep to FAI and down to Beregost as well as most of the first map south of Beregost. They have really not had any issues altho the WS died once when held by a ghast.
I'm starting to agree the Beastmaster is not low power enough so I am going to try swapping in a jester.
I dislike the shapeshifter too much to add one as I am already annoyed enough dealing with a monkey with no monkey gear available altho the biggest drawback to this crew is I called them the Underwhelmers and they are just not very underwhelming...
The rest of the group is at level 1 ((1.2K exp) and to give you an idea of how un-underwhelming they are we just got ambushed by 10 bandits with bows spread out in a circle around us and the only death was the DD - the monk used 2 heal potions and the Avenger used one and the DD was killed before she could get off a sleep spell so no CC either.
My conclusion is pretty much any classes in a reasonably "normal" party configuration can work out fine and the whole "low power" class concept is perhaps less about what works in the game and more about comparing "normal power" to "highest power" = "low power"...
I am probably going to abandon this group now that I see they work just fine together in favor of some of my more interesting campaigns... ;-)
I don't know about Avengers. Every spell slot has something useful in it and Sword Spider decimates Mages who rely on Stoneskin and Mirror Image. They gain all the power that Shapeshifters begin to lose after level 3.
I'm with @Tyranus. IMHO the Avenger is the strongest of the Druid options, not the weakest.
But does that hold true for BGEE or only for characters moving on to BG2? Seems to me they are relatively weak and restricted until they get their shapeshifting at level 8 say compared to a regular druid or even more so a fighter/druid multi or dual. (which is why I had him on the list)
I'm with @Tyranus. IMHO the Avenger is the strongest of the Druid options, not the weakest.
But does that hold true for BGEE or only for characters moving on to BG2? Seems to me they are relatively weak and restricted until they get their shapeshifting at level 8 say compared to a regular druid or even more so a fighter/druid multi or dual. (which is why I had him on the list)
Look at the default Druid spell list. See anything you're just itching to take as your 1st and 2nd level spells? Nope, me neither.
Now look at the spells Chromatic Orb and Web.
The Avenger improves the weakest part of the Druid: low-level spell options.
As only healer, level 1 spell would be Cure Minor Wounds, which isn't essential with potions, but at least an easy pick. The rest is pretty meh compared to cleric level 1. Level 2 has really nothing of value. So yeah, fully agree - the mage spells make a hell of a difference. Web on an Avenger is the only level 2 spell I ever use with a druid. Jaheira or Faldorn usually have "whatever" and never use it because I don't like leaving slots empty. Taking a not-Avenger druid instead of a cleric would be very gimped because you're wasting 2 spell levels with not-so-essential things and miss out on the good cleric stuff like Command.
I'm not seeing the addition of a single mage spell per level for 6 levels as making this kit the be all & end all of druidism myself - in fact the first thought that comes to mind is - if you want mage spells why not play a mage or mage/cleric?
I mean really - I should get excited about having the wondrous option of a chromatic orb which at level 1 does 1d4 damage and possibly blinds a victim if they fail a save vs spell with a +6 bonus? My typical choices for level 1 druid spells is cure minor wounds and maybe a doom both of which seem just as useful to a low level party as chromatic orb would be (if not even more so to me for the healing option since I tend to put off using potions unless absolutely necessary)
Yes I understand that chromatic orb gets better later on but that was my whole point originally that the avenger becomes a much better option in BG2 (which is what it was designed for) but I'm not seeing that for the low level play of BGEE myself.
As for web frankly I'm not a fan of either web or entangle since I like having both melee and ranged options in my teams and both spells pretty effectively take melee off the table particularly for the early chapters before any free action options appear and even after that for all but one or two characters one of which must have the proper proficiency to utilize it with any degree of success.
On the other hand dropping both str and con by 2 (-11%) (especially str) and restricting the avenger to the lowest armor level in the game seem like significant restrictions to me - especially compared to what I consider as the best druid option the fighter/druid multi or fighter/beserker>druid dual.
Yes I am also aware of the availablity of ankeg armor for avengers but wonder if that isn't actually a bug that will eventually be "fixed".
there are no worse warriors in bgee than the monks a shadowdancer can't be a party thief and an effective HIPS user, because of poor skill point distribution dragon disciple for the the lack of spells compared to other casters, the only thing worse would be a vanilla bard
The important part about Web vs Entangle is that Web also prevents enemies from casting or using ranged weapons, which Entangle does not. It just roots them in place and I fail to see the point of that spell. Hence even as a divine caster, this particular arcane version of the spell is better. Chromatic Orb isn't that awesome on low levels, but it does add an offensive spell. Druids are the more offensive divine casters. Avengers fit that even better due to this spell. Both adds to the ability to disable enemy casters - plus the druid spells like insects.
Maybe it's just my personal perception of what druids are/how I play them (if ever - Black Pits and occassionaly Faldorn). You could also say "if you want healing, why not play a cleric?" My reason to take a druid is to access divine offensive spells, not to heal. So the arcane spells Avengers get fit that concept.
The important part about Web vs Entangle is that Web also prevents enemies from casting or using ranged weapons, which Entangle does not. It just roots them in place and I fail to see the point of that spell. Hence even as a divine caster, this particular arcane version of the spell is better. Chromatic Orb isn't that awesome on low levels, but it does add an offensive spell. Druids are the more offensive divine casters. Avengers fit that even better due to this spell. Both adds to the ability to disable enemy casters - plus the druid spells like insects.
Maybe it's just my personal perception of what druids are/how I play them (if ever - Black Pits and occassionaly Faldorn). You could also say "if you want healing, why not play a cleric?" My reason to take a druid is to access divine offensive spells, not to heal. So the arcane spells Avengers get fit that concept.
I do in fact usually play a cleric - two clerics sometimes LOL but thats why a chose a druid for the healer of this "low level" group becuase I find them less powerful than clerics overall even when druids start to shine at higher levels. I would agree with others that the Shapeshifter is the lowest powered druid but I dislike them too much to play one in BGEE so I went with Avenger as the next least powerful (for BGEE).
Shapeshifter actually isn't that bad. For the first 3 levels, just run around as a werewolf all day and punch things. You're basically a very decent Fighter (19 Str, 2 attacks per round, AC -1).
At higher levels, don't enter melee: stay in the back, throw darts and cast spells.
You're a great tank for those low levels where tanks rule the earth, and after that you're just as good as any base class Druid spellcaster.
I ran one through the Black Pits, and it performed quite well.
One of my main problems with the shifter is an RP one when no one seems to notice when you shift into werewolf form - Oh Charname? He's always like that before his morning gruel...
I have the same issue with another form also
slayer in BG2
Re: early tanks - they are more like carts covered in sturdy cardboard LOL so I tend to go with the concept of ranged weapons ruling the earth in low levels as opposed to tanks - even more so for those of us who like to play minimal or no reload.
Comments
Jester
Transmuter
Wizard Slayer
In terms of clerics or theives, the options for "low power" are kind of difficult to stem up. I suppose A shapeshifter druid would count as low power for cleric because they can't wear armor... and for the a theif... I want to say assassin... because early on they don't get much in the way of skill points to throw around, so the last two I would add in would be:
Assassin
Shapeshifter
I wouldn't add in any type of ranger... even the beast master. Frankly, the beast master is hardly under powered, just fits a niche very tightly to the point where people who don't use him right, or want to use him in a certain manner, can't or don't, therefore seems weak. Then again, they don't gain their animal summoning until later.......
Maybe instead of the above two, try:
Cleric/theif
beastmaster
both of which could be archers... or terrible meleers XD
Edit: @Lemernis I don't think a Diviner would be useless for that specific aspect considering only the main character can cast find familiar... I think because you lose Melf's acid arrow and Flame arrow, the specialist becomes gimped...
SOMEWHAT... maybe...
Solari - Sun Soul Monkey - 18 - 18 - 18 - 10 - 10 - 16 \ *katana * single weapon style
Wee Willie Wizardbane - Halfling WS - 17 - 19 - 18 - 10 - 10 - 9 \ ** Short Sword * sling * S & S
Verili Vermillion - Elf Dragon Disciple - 14 - 19 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 15\ * dart
Arachna Human Avenger - 14 - 18 - 15 - 8 - 18 - 15 \ *spear *sling
Yellowhawk - Human Beastmaster 18/59 - 18 - 16 - 8 - 18 - 7 \ *club * sling ** SWS **TWS
Tinker Gnome Cleric/Thief - 18 - 18 - 16 - 10 - 17 - 10 / *Mace * sling
I'm starting to agree the Beastmaster is not low power enough so I am going to try swapping in a jester.
I dislike the shapeshifter too much to add one as I am already annoyed enough dealing with a monkey with no monkey gear available altho the biggest drawback to this crew is I called them the Underwhelmers and they are just not very underwhelming...
Jessie Half-elf CN Jester - 14 - 18 - 16 - 16 - 8 - 15 - *longbow *Two handed sword (level 2 2K exp)
The rest of the group is at level 1 ((1.2K exp) and to give you an idea of how un-underwhelming they are we just got ambushed by 10 bandits with bows spread out in a circle around us and the only death was the DD - the monk used 2 heal potions and the Avenger used one and the DD was killed before she could get off a sleep spell so no CC either.
My conclusion is pretty much any classes in a reasonably "normal" party configuration can work out fine and the whole "low power" class concept is perhaps less about what works in the game and more about comparing "normal power" to "highest power" = "low power"...
I am probably going to abandon this group now that I see they work just fine together in favor of some of my more interesting campaigns... ;-)
IMHO the Avenger is the strongest of the Druid options, not the weakest.
Now look at the spells Chromatic Orb and Web.
The Avenger improves the weakest part of the Druid: low-level spell options.
Taking a not-Avenger druid instead of a cleric would be very gimped because you're wasting 2 spell levels with not-so-essential things and miss out on the good cleric stuff like Command.
I mean really - I should get excited about having the wondrous option of a chromatic orb which at level 1 does 1d4 damage and possibly blinds a victim if they fail a save vs spell with a +6 bonus? My typical choices for level 1 druid spells is cure minor wounds and maybe a doom both of which seem just as useful to a low level party as chromatic orb would be (if not even more so to me for the healing option since I tend to put off using potions unless absolutely necessary)
Yes I understand that chromatic orb gets better later on but that was my whole point originally that the avenger becomes a much better option in BG2 (which is what it was designed for) but I'm not seeing that for the low level play of BGEE myself.
As for web frankly I'm not a fan of either web or entangle since I like having both melee and ranged options in my teams and both spells pretty effectively take melee off the table particularly for the early chapters before any free action options appear and even after that for all but one or two characters one of which must have the proper proficiency to utilize it with any degree of success.
On the other hand dropping both str and con by 2 (-11%) (especially str) and restricting the avenger to the lowest armor level in the game seem like significant restrictions to me - especially compared to what I consider as the best druid option the fighter/druid multi or fighter/beserker>druid dual.
Yes I am also aware of the availablity of ankeg armor for avengers but wonder if that isn't actually a bug that will eventually be "fixed".
6 monks, but if you want a 6 that follow a normal group format (3 warriors, 1 thief, 1 healer, 1 mage) then I'd go
3xmonks, 1xshadowdancer, 1xshapeshifter, 1xdragondisciple
there are no worse warriors in bgee than the monks
a shadowdancer can't be a party thief and an effective HIPS user, because of poor skill point distribution
dragon disciple for the the lack of spells compared to other casters, the only thing worse would be a vanilla bard
Chromatic Orb isn't that awesome on low levels, but it does add an offensive spell. Druids are the more offensive divine casters. Avengers fit that even better due to this spell. Both adds to the ability to disable enemy casters - plus the druid spells like insects.
Maybe it's just my personal perception of what druids are/how I play them (if ever - Black Pits and occassionaly Faldorn). You could also say "if you want healing, why not play a cleric?" My reason to take a druid is to access divine offensive spells, not to heal. So the arcane spells Avengers get fit that concept.
beastmaster, shifter and wizard slayer,
At higher levels, don't enter melee: stay in the back, throw darts and cast spells.
You're a great tank for those low levels where tanks rule the earth, and after that you're just as good as any base class Druid spellcaster.
I ran one through the Black Pits, and it performed quite well.
I have the same issue with another form also
Re: early tanks - they are more like carts covered in sturdy cardboard LOL so I tend to go with the concept of ranged weapons ruling the earth in low levels as opposed to tanks - even more so for those of us who like to play minimal or no reload.