Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Wizard Slayer led Anti-Arcane-Magic Party - custom party of six mage-killers (spoilers)

13

Comments

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    While doing the Ulcaster ruins I was a little surprised that the only thing that hit the vampiric wolf there was Karsum's special ability Seeking Sword (he's the Priest of Helm). So it was neat to actually get use out of that spell as such.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    Woot! I rolled a 3 on the other pair of Boots of Stealth. Yay-yuh. That means my WS 3/Thief can use them. That helps a bit.

    Btw, the weak link thus far is definitely the (pure class) Druid. There isn't much he can do with level 1 and 2 Druid spells. I wish there was a decent spear in the game available before BG city.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    So this is proving to be an interesting and entertaining game to play, although the tactical challenges resulting from having no arcane magic and (very!) limited magical item use really have not been all that great. At least not yet.

    Now still in chapter 3 with perhaps a little less than half the countryside side-questing done, I have both class skills active for both my two multis, i.e., the WS/Thief and the Assassin/Fighter.

    The WS/Thief now finally has the Dagger of Venom. I slowly but surely raised the cash for it by selling mundane gear and gems; although I did also sell a halberd +1 and flail + 1 according to the guidelines I've established. (Unless a magical item is described as divinely enchanted (or that may be easily surmised), or if I roll a 3 with a 1d3 for an item that could possibly be divinely enchanted, the party may not use or sell it.)

    Karhrk was disappointingly easy to defeat with Dispel and Silence. Stripped of his buffs and unable to spellcast the ogre-mage stubbornly chased CHARNAME around with his katana. All the while he ignored attacks from the other party members that I kept positioned between the PC and him. So the party basically just beat him down as the PC ran rodeo clown circles around him. (The Assassin/Fighter especially put the hurt on him with her darts.) So the combat scripting for Karhk should be really improved in a patch, eventually.

    The assassin band in Gullykin also had their spellcasting neutralized by Silence (although one caster did cast Rigid Thinking (? Dire Charm? whichever, he wandered off confused) on the protagonist.

    The Assassin/Fighter Grandmaster in Darts is a total killing machine, even just with regular nonpoisonous darts. She has 4 APR using darts.

    The half-orc Barbarian now with the Chelsey Crusher is regularly chunking enemies.

    And I can now begin to use the WS/Thief as planned: backstab with just Dagger of Venom, then switch to dual-wielded axes. So I expect that to be fun.

    I'm about to take on the four Red Wizards next to Pelvdale.

    Here's where each character is at:

    (Note: all wear regular helmets.)

    Dezrath - Wizard Slayer 3/Thief 4
    Axe +++
    Two-Weapon Style ++
    Dagger +
    Single Weapon Style +
    Telbar's studded leather +2, Boots of Stealth, two regular battles axes, Dagger of Venom

    Jeryll - Inquisitor 3 (about to level)
    Two-Handed Sword ++
    Two-Handed Weapon Style ++
    Long Sword +
    ankheg armor, regular greatsword, Varscona, Harrower

    Daresh - Barbarian 4
    Halberd ++
    Two-Handed Weapon Style ++
    Quarterstaff +
    splint mail, Senses of the Cat (boots), Chelsey Crusher

    Karsum - Cleric of Helm 4
    Flail/Morningstar +
    Sword and Shield Style +
    War Hammer +
    plate mail, large shield, Ashideena, Ring of Holiness

    Zalektra - Assassin 2/Fighter 3 (about to level)
    Dart +++++
    Shortbow +
    plate mail, large shield, regular darts, 14 Darts of Wounding

    Apothos - Druid 4
    Sling +
    Spear +
    Club +
    Protector of the Second studded leather +2, buckler, regular sling bullets, sling +1, Club +1

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    BelgarathMTH
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    The Red Wizards in the so-called 'Spider Wood' (AR3000) were easily defeated, once again using Silence. I'm not meta-gaming the combat encounters. So the first wizard got off a Horror spell that the Inquisitor failed to save against. But the Priest of Helm Silenced the Thayans. And that was all she wrote.

    I'm still sort of struggling to get the most out of the Druid. He can cast Charm Person or Animal, and that is honestly about as powerful an offensive spell as he's got as yet. When he eventually gets level 3 Druid spells, then hopefully he'll start coming into his own with Call Lightning, Dispel, Miscast Magic, Rigid Thinking, and Summon Insects.

    I intend to hit Durlag's early in order to get Bala's Axe for the WS/Thief. His Find Traps is at 70 and the Assassin/Fighter's Locks is at 70 as well. But I just remembered that with this anti-arcane-magic party, they can't use Potions of Master Thievery or Perception. That is, magical potions are off limits. So I will need to get at least one more level for the WS/Thief to take care of the traps there.

    BelgarathMTH
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    Wish you were taking video - would love to watch this.

    Are you planning to take the party through BG2 / BG2EE? I suspect the challenge would rise a bit there, given your guidelines.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    Oh yeah, the real challenge for this type of game concept/playthrough would be BG2(EE), without a doubt. Especially with SCSII(EE) installed! I think I might well do that.

    Because in vanilla BG:EE, while it's a fun departure it really isn't that challenging...

    Although, I have yet to attempt fighting some of the most difficult wizard enemies. Before this game is done I will try to defeat:

    Daer'Ragh
    Thalantyr
    Halbazzer Drin
    Shandalar
    Tethtoril
    Ulraunt
    (plus ? who am I leaving out...)

    and I wish I could have a prayer versus Elminster. But IIRC he has MR. And without being able to cast priest spells on him I think it's safe to say an assault on E. would basically be suicidal. For all I know it may be just as impossible to beat Shandalar, Tethtoril, and Ulraunt without any arcane magic. (I've never tired fighting them in any game, ever.)

    I don't expect too much trouble from the main fights for each chapter, Ice Island, etc.

    I suppose I could try having my rep drop low enough that I try battling Flaming Fist Enforcers (just for a while, then donate to improve rep at a temple).
    rdarken said:

    Are you planning to take the party through BG2 / BG2EE? I suspect the challenge would rise a bit there, given your guidelines.
    I've never made a video of the game. How do you do it?

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    I don't know how to make videos, sorry :(

    I think you should take a stab at Elminster, once you're done with the playthrough. Maybe that Wizard Slayer could turn the tides if he can land some hits!

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    It would be awesome if 10 hits on Elminster from the Wizard Slayer actually robbed the old buzzard of his spellcasting ability.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    funny thing
    wizard slayer9/mage12 can't use vecna a bug? he can use other robes but no vecna

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited June 2013
    RL has recently been intruding on my hobby time in a big way (pesky RL), but I've had a few short sessions where I've continued to side-quest with this party. In the Firewine ruins I got "spell failed" feedback for the ogre mage there after the Wizard Slayer hit him with his dual axes several times. So that was kind of gratifying to see.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    One thing that a mage killer party could potentially go for is an Abjurer Mage... Since they specialize in protection spells (protecting the group from spells from other mages) and removing protection spells from enemies, to make the job easier for the rest of the group...

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited June 2013
    That would add an interesting twist, it's a very neat idea. There's probably some interesting variations that could be done on the basic premise of 'mages must die'.

    For this particular RP concept I went with a party that hates arcane magic as the overriding motivation; and as an element of that they seek to kill all mages. So having a wizard within their own ranks would add a little weirdness. With this RP concept it would feel akin to dualing a WS to mage, heh!

    At least for this run I wanted to see what it would be like to use no arcane magic whatsoever. No wizard spells, no wizard scrolls, no wizard wands, and no arcane enchanted items (I'm using a 1d3 dice roll solution, i.e., 1 in 3 chance, for when an item description is vague about the type of enchantment: if I roll a 3 then the item was divinely enchanted and the party may use it).

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    The Fighter 5 that I dualed to Assassin, now at level 2... for some reason when I try to have her use her Lockpicking ability by clicking on the thief mask icon, it doesn't interact with the lock via the lock icon. The thieving icon doesn't get a red outline when I click on it for her. Is this a known bug? For dual-classed Fighter -> Assassin, I mean.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,287
    edited April 2014
    I never dualled a Fighter into an Assassin in BGEE, but did so once in BGT, where I had no problems.

    I like the concept, it's similar to a party I had with an h-orcish WS, Kagain, Gavin (Cleric) and Isra.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    Thanks. I got ahead on my studies and just needed some time to play without journaling, so I picked back up on this game for a little bit. One of the novel things in this concept that I'm remembering now is that they remove magic items of all kinds from the world by collecting them in a chest. So there's a lot less money available to buy stuff.

    This party is actually pretty darn badass. I really should have played this with SCS installed. They''re mowing down anyone who gets in their way. They waxed Thalantyr with no trouble whatsoever. They'll do the same to Bentley after returning from Cloakwood.

    In other news: After the bandit camp the PC (Wizard Slayer 3/Thief 5) got the special ability Horror. That's a bit problematic for this character concept (has a burning hatred for arcane magic). I guess I could imagine the Horror spell effect coming from a divine source, but it really is an arcane spell in PnP. So I changed it to Slow Poison.

    Didn't roll a 3 on any of the magical items from the bandit camp enchanted loot. (For magical items that might plausibly be divinely enchanted I roll a 1d3 where 3 = divinely enchanted.)

    Blackraven
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,287
    edited April 2014
    Lemernis said:

    Thanks. I got ahead on my studies and just needed some time to play without journaling, so I picked back up on this game for a little bit. One of the novel things in this concept that I'm remembering now is that they remove magic items of all kinds from the world by collecting them in a chest. So there's a lot less money available to buy stuff.

    This party is actually pretty darn badass. I really should have played this with SCS installed. They''re mowing down anyone who gets in their way. They waxed Thalantyr with no trouble whatsoever. They'll do the same to Bentley after returning from Cloakwood.

    In other news: After the bandit camp the PC (Wizard Slayer 3/Thief 5) got the special ability Horror. That's a bit problematic for this character concept (has a burning hatred for arcane magic). I guess I could imagine the Horror spell effect coming from a divine source, but it really is an arcane spell in PnP. So I changed it to Slow Poison.

    Didn't roll a 3 on any of the magical items from the bandit camp enchanted loot. (For magical items that might plausibly be divinely enchanted I roll a 1d3 where 3 = divinely enchanted.)

    Wow your party is more implacable than mine was. Poor Bentley. I think I'm too soft to kill him. Charname (and party leader) was LN. She would seek out mages but only put them to justice if she witnessed them practising the forbidden art (without provoking them, though I could see her slipping there as the game would advance). I never got to killing Thalantyr, though I think he does cast Oracle on SCS if a party member enters the High Hedge hidden in shadows. That could have been a good motive.

    Anyhow, glad you have some time to play :) And without asking you to journal your progress, I'd be very interested to read about any interesting findings or strategies. I still think a full party with no access to arcane magic is possibly the biggest challenge for SoA/ToB.

    Edit: the distintion between arcane/divine enchantments is a nice one.
    As to removing arcane items I roleplayed that my party would burn the more powerful items (such as Robes f the Archmagi). :D

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    Yeah, even with a concept like this it somehow doesn't seem right to kill Thalantyr and Bentley does it? I'm RPing that the Inquisitor has signed on to this crazy mission, but actually a paladin should actually Fall for something like that. (The game engine doesn't give that result.)

    Only with SCS installed would it actually pose a challenge, I'm finding. Thalantyr barely put up a fight.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    Maybe I should have the Inquisitor Fall via EE Keeper, now that I think about it.

    Blackraven
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,287
    Lemernis said:

    Yeah, even with a concept like this it somehow doesn't seem right to kill Thalantyr and Bentley does it?

    Well I'd say it depends a bit on the alignment you're playing, on charname's personality, and perhaps on the influence that certain party members exert on charname (in the same way Eldoth influences your Diviner).
    My LN charname Grynne abided by a strict personal code, but had little to no respect for the laws of the land so she was capable of going against the law. She saw arcane magic as a source of undesirably great, corruptive power for those who practise it. She would act against those wizards who, using their arcane talents, had become demonstrably dangerous. Thus she was highly suspicious of Thalantyr. She thought the many skeletons in the HH area might have been his work, and she was disturbed with his (composure after the) failed experiment at retransforming Melicamp. With Bentley otoh she had no reason to be suspicious.
    Lemernis said:


    I'm RPing that the the Inquisitor has signed on to this crazy mission, but actually a paladin should actually Fall for something like that. (The game engine doesn't give that result.)

    You mean Keldorn doesn't fall if the party reputation gets low enough (6 I think) for a charname paladin to fall? And Inquisitor doesn't fall either, because he isn't charname?
    Lemernis said:


    Only with SCS installed would it actually pose a challenge, I'm finding. Thalantyr barely put up a fight.

    I'm restarting a (rebalanced) WS run, on SCS, because I haven't fleshed out my Skald yet, and I wantg to play a bit. I remember that my first attempt (no-reload) in a party went pretty smoothly as well, even with SCS so I'd definitely recommend that mod. It was a very physical party that hacked and sleshed their way through the game, until Grynne passed out to Davaeorn's Stinking Clouds and got killed by his Battle Horrors.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    I love SCS, though I haven't played it in years, since well before EE. The thing for me now is I have the Let that Fates Decide game going, which is sans SCS; and realistically that might take me another year to complete. Again, it's been a long time since I used SCS: What happens to saved games that are currently in the directory after installing to SCS? Are they affected by its code?

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,287
    Lemernis said:

    What happens to saved games that are currently in the directory after installing to SCS? Are they affected by its code?

    I think they are but I can't test now. Had a crash last night, and will have to do a full new install of the game + mods one of these days.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    When I installed SCS it appeared that my old saved games also were effected - didn't really test it out but played a couple of them briefly and saw at least some of the SCS effects.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    It wasn't too difficult to defeat Davaeorn with this bunch. I'm never quite sure whether checking for traps in the hallway right before Davaeorn constitutes metagaming because it is reasonable to do; but on the other hand I'm not doing it every step of the way either, as that would be too tedious.

    But anyway I did remove the traps. Davaeorn saved against Silence. However the Avenger put Summon Insects on him. And the WS/Thief managed to backstab him with the dagger of venom. And that it think did hamper Davaeorn's subsequent spellcasting attempts. He only got off a monster summoning spell. So he was toast pretty quick.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    Blackraven
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    Thinking more on whether the Inquisitor would allow killing of innocent mages: well, no, of course she wouldn't if it was RPed. But since this is a tactical challenge I'm not going to worry about that. However without SCS I don't think taking on Bentley would be much fun, i.e., no real challenge. So they shall overlook that he is an Illusionist.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    Blackraven
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    In other news, for the Cloakwood mines cache of enchanted gear I rolled a few 3s (i.e., using 1d3; where if the item description as vague as to the type of enchantment a die roll of 3 = I RP that the item is divinely enchanted versus arcane, and it is then useable by this party). Spiderbane was one of those items, so the Inquisitor has a nice two-handed sword now. Davaeorn's bracers was another, but they don't benefit anyone, so they can be sold. All other arcane magic items get locked away in a chest. And I do pay to have them all identified.

    I will just observe at this point that, at least with vanilla BGEE, it's surprisingly easy to cruise through the game avoiding arcane magic with the party I have assembled. Really, between Silence, Summon Insects (and eventually Insect Plague and Poison), and WS/Thief backstabbing with the dagger of venom and the Assassin/Fighter's poisoned darts, the enemy mages are sitting ducks to begin with. I was hoping to see how well the following work: a) Miscast Magic from both the cleric and druid (it's a spell I don't often use), and b) whether the WS's dual-wielded axe attacks whittle down the target's casting ability.* But the mages are getting killed by virtue of other disabling attacks far quicker. The WS/Thief launches his assault with a backstab from the dagger of venom, and the ensuing poison damage usually interrupts the wizard's subsequent casting efforts anyway. As mentioned, at least with mage targets, they don't stand a chance with the other tactics mentioned above; so I haven't even used Hold Person on them yet which is normally be a staple spell for me with an arcane caster.

    I think I might complete the game for the fun value of the combination of classes or kits and the self-limiting strategy I devised. But unfortunately there's actually not a great deal of challenge.



    * Maybe a better test of this would have been to have a single class WS dual-wield clubs with SCS installed, so that the attacks are less likely to be fatal and I might actually see a reduction of spellcasting failure on the enemy wizard's part.

    JuliusBorisov
  • twillighttwillight Member Posts: 65
    Lemernis said:


    I've never made a video of the game. How do you do it?

    1) Get a video-recorder program. There are free versions of them if you need. I use "Debut Video Capture Software".
    2) Start the game.
    3) Start the recorder. When you switch to the game they usually auto-adjust the resolution, but check it with a 10 seconds recording just to be on the safe side.
    4) record
    5) upload the video and give link.

    JuliusBorisov
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,287
    Lemernis said:

    In other news, for the Cloakwood mines cache of enchanted gear I rolled a few 3s (i.e., using 1d3; where if the item description as vague as to the type of enchantment a die roll of 3 = I RP that the item is divinely enchanted versus arcane, and it is then useable by this party). Spiderbane was one of those items, so the Inquisitor has a nice two-handed sword now. Davaeorn's bracers was another, but they don't benefit anyone, so they can be sold. All other arcane magic items get locked away in a chest. And I do pay to have them all identified.

    I will just observe at this point that, at least with vanilla BGEE, it's surprisingly easy to cruise through the game avoiding arcane magic with the party I have assembled. Really, between Silence, Summon Insects (and eventually Insect Plague and Poison), and WS/Thief backstabbing with the dagger of venom and the Assassin/Fighter's poisoned darts, the enemy mages are sitting ducks to begin with. I was hoping to see how well the following work: a) Miscast Magic from both the cleric and druid (it's a spell I don't often use), and b) whether the WS's dual-wielded axe attacks whittle down the target's casting ability.* But the mages are getting killed by virtue of other disabling attacks far quicker. The WS/Thief launches his assault with a backstab from the dagger of venom, and the ensuing poison damage usually interrupts the wizard's subsequent casting efforts anyway. As mentioned, at least with mage targets, they don't stand a chance with the other tactics mentioned above; so I haven't even used Hold Person on them yet which is normally be a staple spell for me with an arcane caster.

    I think I might complete the game for the fun value of the combination of classes or kits and the self-limiting strategy I devised. But unfortunately there's actually not a great deal of challenge.



    * Maybe a better test of this would have been to have a single class WS dual-wield clubs with SCS installed, so that the attacks are less likely to be fatal and I might actually see a reduction of spellcasting failure on the enemy wizard's part.

    I checked yesterday. You could still install SCS, it will affect your current save.

    JuliusBorisov
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    The problem is I don't want it affecting the save of my Let the Fates Decide game. It affects all saved games right?

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,287
    edited April 2014
    It will.
    You would have to uninstall it again once you continue your LtFD playthrough, but I'd understand it if you can't be bothered with (un)installing SCS all the time...

    JuliusBorisov
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited April 2014
    Yeah, here uninstalling and reinstalling SCS isn't really worth the trouble. I think this challenge is actually better suited to BG2 with SCS installed. It would be most fun against BG2's high level mages when they are improved by SCS's AI. The concept is also more apropos lore-wise, since in canon Amn circa 1372 DR Amnian society is heavily prejudiced against arcane magic, believe it or not. Wizards are ostracized in canon Amn.

    Blackraven
Sign In or Register to comment.