Impressions of BGEE.
SionIV
Member Posts: 2,689
Well yesterday i started playing BGEE and had some questions that got answered. I ended up fixing some of the problems i had with the game, but some of them still remain. Anyway, i'm a bit dissapointed with this game. I don't regret speding money on it, as i think it's money well spent. But in the form the game is right now i don't feel that it can stand up to the hype, and neither that it can stand up to Trilogy.
1.) The interface looks odd, it's hard getting used to it after so many years of Baldur's Gate 2 interface. It's not bad in anyway, it's just different and in this case different isn't what i'm looking for. They could have touched up the BG2 one instead of making a new one with that hideous blue colour (Opinion).
2.) I love the way the large shield looks in BGEE, but i wish they had taken more from the original Baldur's gate. My full plate still looks like someone molded metal onto a rock, and i wish they had taken the avatars from Baldur's gate I. This might not be possible but it would have been great if they atleast had done something with the plate look.
3.) The new NPC's are nice enough, but they just don't fit into the game for me. I can't put my finger on it, but they don't have that feel to it that the old ones have. And yes the old ones barely have any dialogue, but they still get me to smile and laugh. The new NPC's are a little bit like having a brand new radio in a antique(?) shop.
4.) Black pit. Alright this is a thing i love and hate at the same time. First of all i enjoyed the black pit custom scenario. I played first through it with a party of three, and everything went smooth. There were certain things that were frustrating and you had to have meta knowledge beforehand (Clay golems, trolls, etc) to beat. But you could always load and get the items you needed for the fight. The second time i played through as a solo blade, it was enjoyable and it reminds me a little bit of IWD, it has that nice feeling to it of gloom and doom. Baelokh(?) had a nice voice and felt very much alive.
Now for the negative about Black pit, and the one thing that ruins it for me completely. You can't enter it from inside the original game. Now i know that the experience would make it so that the rest of BG1 was a cakewalk. But i'm sure they could have done something inbetween. Call it a black pit 'lite' or something that you can get into from the original game. Cut the XP rewards to 100-500 XP for the early ones, and 3-5K for the last ones. Also put some of those nifty items in the shop that you can't get from outside the game. Sure keep the +1 swords or armors and such, but then remove the unique items (from the original, boots of talos etc) and make your own 5-7 unique items to put in the shop. You can even make it so that you can only buy theese after you completed the black pit. Also make it as the frozen iceland so you can't return before you have done it all, and put a level requirement of 5 onto entering The black pit.
So much more could have done to make this a part of the game, instead of an arena scenario. Would have LOVED to go to this place before or after durlag's for some extra hours of fun. Especially with the NPC's from the original game (I'm not going to edit them in).
5.) Many small things like the zoom and such are nice enough ideas, but could have spent time on other things instead of them. There were some bugs (Firebead) that wasn't there in the original that they could have fixed aswell.
Ofcourse there were many nice additons aswell, but i feel right now that the bad overweight the good.
I'm going to keep my eyes open for any new updates and such, and i'll probably complete the game i got running now (No reload, so would like to get it done and not put it on hold) . But even without mods, i feel that trilogy is the better edition.
1.) The interface looks odd, it's hard getting used to it after so many years of Baldur's Gate 2 interface. It's not bad in anyway, it's just different and in this case different isn't what i'm looking for. They could have touched up the BG2 one instead of making a new one with that hideous blue colour (Opinion).
2.) I love the way the large shield looks in BGEE, but i wish they had taken more from the original Baldur's gate. My full plate still looks like someone molded metal onto a rock, and i wish they had taken the avatars from Baldur's gate I. This might not be possible but it would have been great if they atleast had done something with the plate look.
3.) The new NPC's are nice enough, but they just don't fit into the game for me. I can't put my finger on it, but they don't have that feel to it that the old ones have. And yes the old ones barely have any dialogue, but they still get me to smile and laugh. The new NPC's are a little bit like having a brand new radio in a antique(?) shop.
4.) Black pit. Alright this is a thing i love and hate at the same time. First of all i enjoyed the black pit custom scenario. I played first through it with a party of three, and everything went smooth. There were certain things that were frustrating and you had to have meta knowledge beforehand (Clay golems, trolls, etc) to beat. But you could always load and get the items you needed for the fight. The second time i played through as a solo blade, it was enjoyable and it reminds me a little bit of IWD, it has that nice feeling to it of gloom and doom. Baelokh(?) had a nice voice and felt very much alive.
Now for the negative about Black pit, and the one thing that ruins it for me completely. You can't enter it from inside the original game. Now i know that the experience would make it so that the rest of BG1 was a cakewalk. But i'm sure they could have done something inbetween. Call it a black pit 'lite' or something that you can get into from the original game. Cut the XP rewards to 100-500 XP for the early ones, and 3-5K for the last ones. Also put some of those nifty items in the shop that you can't get from outside the game. Sure keep the +1 swords or armors and such, but then remove the unique items (from the original, boots of talos etc) and make your own 5-7 unique items to put in the shop. You can even make it so that you can only buy theese after you completed the black pit. Also make it as the frozen iceland so you can't return before you have done it all, and put a level requirement of 5 onto entering The black pit.
So much more could have done to make this a part of the game, instead of an arena scenario. Would have LOVED to go to this place before or after durlag's for some extra hours of fun. Especially with the NPC's from the original game (I'm not going to edit them in).
5.) Many small things like the zoom and such are nice enough ideas, but could have spent time on other things instead of them. There were some bugs (Firebead) that wasn't there in the original that they could have fixed aswell.
Ofcourse there were many nice additons aswell, but i feel right now that the bad overweight the good.
I'm going to keep my eyes open for any new updates and such, and i'll probably complete the game i got running now (No reload, so would like to get it done and not put it on hold) . But even without mods, i feel that trilogy is the better edition.
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Comments
What greatly disappointed me initially about the EE is what I still find least impressive - the new artwork. The three new NPC portraits are alright (just passable for Neera), but the new player portraits are downright terrible and not something I would ever use. Find the old artist and offer him a large pot of gold please. Also the new cutscenes - generally not good. While the intro has been improved since release - many are still awful - most especially the one when entering the bandit camp. The ending also grates on me and feels worse. There are parts which are very good, like the painted pictures for the beginnings of Chapters 6, and 5 I think is especially good - whatever depicts the Cloakwood.
The new NPC's - fine. No complaints, however to partially agree with the OP I will say that they feel much more like BG2 NPC's than BG1 - perhaps that's what he couldn't put his finger on. Plus bonus points for making the evil half-orc way better than the goody-goody-two-shoes monk. Anyway overall I welcome them. And Baeloth is awesome.
The interface is alright and doesn't offend me - I wasn't all that impressed at first but it has definitely grown on me.
The engine changes are downright awesome. Everything works and works great. I love the additions and alterations that have been made to the core game that were probably included in the original but only now fixed/unlocked/completed.
The Black Pits I have limited experience with as I got bored. That's not a good sign. I would rather the pits be accessible from the main campaign however there was probably a licensing issue there.
Overall 7.5 / 10
(8.0 when they fix the bugs, 9.5 if someone awesome redoes the new art..)
I do agree with you on the black pits, while I found them entertaining at first, I quickly lost interest. Again though, some others may love the idea.
Those 5 points make it worse than Trilogy for me.
And i honestly can't think of anything it does better. Oh yea, less lag and a tiny bit better graphics.
I wont spoil to much, but the black pits DOES integrate in the main story, albeit loosely
At launch I played it at a friends and considered it unfit for purpose so I only bought it after one of the more recent patches (the one that fixed the apr bug). I like the new NPCs, they are more akin to BG2 style which I prefer. The Black Pits was fun but a bit too easy. I really like the new kits as well, I'm already planning what to do with them in BG2. The superficial features like the zoom, journal and interface all seem pointless with the exception of the stat total at character creation being shown.
It's still worse for me because.
1) No Level1NPCs mod yet, my favourite mod.
2) Bugs. When you encounter a bug within the first 60 seconds of play (Firebeard/Tethoril) it makes you question how extensively the game was tested.
I've been told Trilogy is the best. I've been told Tutu is the best. Yet neither of them fit the bill, not for me. The installation process. The installation order. The patches. The mods and their compatibility issues. The limitations and instability - I had bugs crop up in both, and a corrupt save file in one - of these layer upon layer programs resulted in my turning away from Baldur's Gate, from sheer frustration. There always seemed to be the need for one more modification to smooth the experience. Then there is the inferiority complex bestowed on those of us who encounter such problems, by those who are computer programmers in their spare time. It's akin to someone who is clueless about car mechanics screwing up something as simple as changing the oil. It's only simple if you know how to do it.
This Enhanced Edition, which I often see revered to as the inferior choice is the option I have had the most ease of use with, the least amount of troubleshooting with, and the most enjoyment with. I measure that enjoyment in terms of in-game time verses installation and troubleshooting time, where the Enhanced Edition is way out ahead. Also, it's the (optional) extras that come with the Enhanced Edition (out of the box) only. The new kits. The new NPC's. The new art work. The new portraits. The new voice sets. The new game mode. The new explorable areas. The new visual effects. The zoomable camera. These are mostly optional. They need only be part of a users experience if they choose to include them. This cannot be considered a negative.
I personally do not care for a few of the new portraits, but then the choice for custom portraits remains. I happen to love the zoomable camera for those times I want to zoom right in when in-doors, and those times I want to zoom right out while in the wilderness. Other times I don't touch the zoom option and play for hours at the same setting. It is fantastic to have the choice.
1' Plentiness of dialogue options in comparison to the rest of living humanoids habitat. Their lines are unpleasantly long. Especially Neera's. Brr, painful character.
2' Über-useful items as starting inventory.
I recall how great was finding out that Jaheira has had a Potion of Invisibility, Imoen - Magical Rod and Oil of Speed, Kagain - unique looking Golden Helmet (with casual statistics), Minsc - his quick slot item jammed. Simple, but fun things like Boo's squeaking sound. Most of them useful, but not necessary to break your vision of game-play or role-play. Well, I have enjoyed taunting Ajantis that after several words was to walk away just to never be seen again - and without unnecessary reloading because of lost belongings.
Like in Zelda series, you're glad even if you find an empty bottle.
The two details I lacked in EE was the Golden Helmet and Boo. And why does Imoen's arrows still are divided to several slots is a still mystery to me. It feels like the shadow of outdated stacking system is still covering the EE bliss.
The time-saving Gem Bag is gold as Kagain's helmet thogh. No Neera means significant logistics problem. Why simple purse has to be so rare?
3' Quests. It is not possible to completely ignore these characters (and tell them to go away) due to their over-scaled, naive stories and lot of content lost that occurs due to ignoring them.
I find minimal flavor changes like not-being attacked by Wizards of Tay while Edwin's in party a sufficient idea of underlining person's past.
The new NPCs are designed to entertain the player with their fancy stories. The impact goes from subtle developing Child of Bhaal Story to quite naive new scenarios. Additional heroes aren't rather coy inhabitants of Realms, of low importance, of great story only to be experienced as a fabulous members of CHARNAME's party as Imoen, Minsc or K&J themselves.
I think that the problem of adding new things to a whole is the difficulty to blend them into original structure in the most coherent and creative way possible. The way of implementing these new chars may be good, but certainly not masterful as the original game itself.
The games not perfect. It needs work. I still hope to play some multiplayer. I'm having fun though.
b) I would have thought it obvious to anyone reading a forum post on the internet that, within the post, I am merely stating my opinion, and not stating inarguable facts. Forgive me for not surrounding my opinions/posts with the bleeding obvious, by which I mean constant disclaimers that they are in fact merely my opinion and not the proclamations of god.
1) better graphics - I've recently tried to load my previous Throne save and you know, the difference in graphics is so huge I'll hardly play the vanilla game in future
2) detailed, explicit information about character's THACO, armor's AC against different kind of weapons, etc all available in the inventory page - playing the vanilla game I couldn't see everything and although I tried to undestand this game's basics it was much harder than now
3) new NPCs - I hesitated to play as a wild mage and a monk as the main character (especially in BG1 while playing BGT) but always wanted to try them in my party, now I have this possibility and gladly use it. Also I've always wanted to have an option for a gay romance in this game - hooray!
4) new kits - that's what I'd like to mention separately. A Shadowdancer kit has completly taken my heart - it has brought me an experience I'd never had before. A Blackguard kit, especially with a seperate character I can take into my party, shines too. Overall, bringing new kits to this game is a very strong move by the devs.
5) renewed interest to this great game - now we have this actual, active, great forum where we can discuss our favourite game, find out something new about it (yes, even after all these years I find out some secrets every day due to this forum), share our feelings and discoveries, make friends etc...
Moreover, it gives me a confidence we'll see BG3 one day!
Сheers!
The latest patch even made me contemplate running around with a custom party made only of new kits. Blackguard, Dwarven Defender, Dragon Disciple, Shadowdancer and one of the new Monk kits.
Bring on a new Cleric kit and I can have all bases covered.
Other than that, I've only played BG1EE for an hour or two, so I can't really pass judgement. Overall, I'm satisfied so far, though it's disappointing to encounter a bug in the first few minutes of playing (Firebead).
- four new professionally voiced, well written NPCs (with more presumably to follow via DLC)
- Blackguard kit
- new magic weapons
- the zoom feature
- new UI
- new soundsets
The movies have actually grown on me too. Despite initially feeling underwhelmed by them, I think I actually like them better now. The graphic novel style is sort of neat. I think they could be improved a bit. But I kind of like the graphic novel angle a lot.
Is all that "better" than BGT or Tutu? Sadly, I'm probably never going properly measure that out. I lack the motivation to go back and install the BG1 and BG2 from disks, and load up the gazillion mods I used to play with. That just feels like too much of a chore. (That's just me, of course.)
I don't know how many of the mods will ever get refurbished for BG:EE. I saw @Miloch comment that he just doesn't have time for now to tackle Level 1 NPCs, which I do miss with EE. There probably aren't that many people with the skills willing to take something like that on.*
But over time I'm looking forward to the modding communities' adaptations of existing mods to EE and to Beamdog's DLCs. And I'm mostly interested now in supporting the effort to get BG3 made via the success of the EEs. That's the 'bigger picture' to all this, in my view.
* We don't have L1 NPCs, but has changing NPC classes via EEKeeper been proving stable for the game?