Keldorn, you're the man!
SionIV
Member Posts: 2,689
Just want to make a little topic to honor one of the best NPC's in Baldur's Gate 2, Keldorn!
With gauntlets of dexterity he got amazing stats :
17
18
17
12
16
18
He starts with a great Two handed sword + 2. That can deal 5 damage against targets with alot of damage reduction like kangaxx and adamantite golems once they hit him. His kit (Inquisitor) gives him immune to hold and charm spells, so he's a great and safe option to send him against undead and shadows (That doesn't level drain). Give him lilacor from the slums and he's also immune to confuse, and with those 3 the most frustrating spells and abilities in the game that make you lose out on control.
He's also got great saves thanks to being a paladin, and with an intelligence of 12 he'll survive well against mind flayers.
The swords he use should go like this :
Holy avenger (His own personal sword)
Lilacor
Carsomyr
Lilacor is very easy to get early in the game, and if you're prepared to reload or you're good at killing dragons then you can get carsomyr early aswell. Carsomyr is by far the best two handed sword in the game, and one of the best weapons all in all. If you don't play a paladin yourself Keldorn is the only one who can use it, and if you play a paladin then you still got the purifier in WK which is also a good sword for keldorn.
Not to forget his personal armor! He gets a full plate + 1 with free action right from the start. No character in the game gets as good personal items right of the bat as keldorn does. You can get him from the temple the first thing you do in the game, without having to fight anything other than goblins or kobolds.
Now for the grand finale, his special ability. His dispel magic is so immensly powerful that it almost breaks the game. Anything from vanilla to SCS he eats up pretty quick with his dispel magic. He's the only NPC in the game (Other than arcane casters) that can strip mages so reliably of their buffs. And then he can compete with a fighter in melee about the most damage. One of my favorite moments is fighting the clerics down in the beholder lair under the sewers. They have millions of buffs that make them very dangerouse in SCS, but with one dispel from keldorn it's all gone and you remove 50% of their bite, just leaving them with their bark.
And with the early acces to Carsomyr and putting a girdle on him (If you can spare) he'll even put Korgan in the dust as a melee fighter. Once korgan gets a pair of good axes it turns around again, but he still can't handle mages as good as keldorn can with his dispel magic + carsomyr. And 50% magic resistance is fantastic! Korgan is a great fighter, and end game he's the better damage dealer, and his rage makes him immune to the most frustrating things. But as a balanced all around character for a party, i feel that Keldorn does more for your party. But it's totally fine as one if evil and the other is good, a great balance when it comes to the fighter pool in BG2.
Keldorn will very rarely be the right level to turn undead, but if you're playing with a small party he can still do it decently effective.
He's got a great personality, many dialogues around the whole game and his quest with his wife is one of those that make you smile. Hes not a dragonslayer VII with arms like steel and long blonde hair, he is an old man with gray hair trying to make the world into a better place while being there for his family.
And it's totally worth bringing him with you do De'arnise keep just for his dialogue with Nalias aunt
Cheers for you Keldorn!
[Edited] : My Keldorn uses :
Helm : Helm of defense
Amulet : Amulet + 5 of magic resistance -> Amulet of seldarine (ToB)
Chest : Family armor
Ring : Ring of Gaxx
Ring : Ring of fire control
Boots : Boots of grounding
Belt : Any strenght enhancing belt.
Gloves : Gauntlets of Dexterity
Cloak : Cloak of Sewers
Weapon 1 : Carsomyr
Weapon 2 : Mace of disruption + 2
Shield : Balduran
This puts his resistance as the following
Fire : 70
Lightning : 70
Magic : 65
His saves are + 4 from items.
And his armor class is -7 with a two hander.
He is immune to : Poison, disease, hold, slow, charm. And he can improve haste himself.
And he regenerates 1HP / 3 seconds.
The reason i give ring of Gaxx to him is because it works well with his family armor as it's magical and he can't use a ring of protection +2.
Keldorn can work fine with lesser gear aswell. The only thing he requires to be powerful is gauntlets of dexterity.
With gauntlets of dexterity he got amazing stats :
17
18
17
12
16
18
He starts with a great Two handed sword + 2. That can deal 5 damage against targets with alot of damage reduction like kangaxx and adamantite golems once they hit him. His kit (Inquisitor) gives him immune to hold and charm spells, so he's a great and safe option to send him against undead and shadows (That doesn't level drain). Give him lilacor from the slums and he's also immune to confuse, and with those 3 the most frustrating spells and abilities in the game that make you lose out on control.
He's also got great saves thanks to being a paladin, and with an intelligence of 12 he'll survive well against mind flayers.
The swords he use should go like this :
Holy avenger (His own personal sword)
Lilacor
Carsomyr
Lilacor is very easy to get early in the game, and if you're prepared to reload or you're good at killing dragons then you can get carsomyr early aswell. Carsomyr is by far the best two handed sword in the game, and one of the best weapons all in all. If you don't play a paladin yourself Keldorn is the only one who can use it, and if you play a paladin then you still got the purifier in WK which is also a good sword for keldorn.
Not to forget his personal armor! He gets a full plate + 1 with free action right from the start. No character in the game gets as good personal items right of the bat as keldorn does. You can get him from the temple the first thing you do in the game, without having to fight anything other than goblins or kobolds.
Now for the grand finale, his special ability. His dispel magic is so immensly powerful that it almost breaks the game. Anything from vanilla to SCS he eats up pretty quick with his dispel magic. He's the only NPC in the game (Other than arcane casters) that can strip mages so reliably of their buffs. And then he can compete with a fighter in melee about the most damage. One of my favorite moments is fighting the clerics down in the beholder lair under the sewers. They have millions of buffs that make them very dangerouse in SCS, but with one dispel from keldorn it's all gone and you remove 50% of their bite, just leaving them with their bark.
And with the early acces to Carsomyr and putting a girdle on him (If you can spare) he'll even put Korgan in the dust as a melee fighter. Once korgan gets a pair of good axes it turns around again, but he still can't handle mages as good as keldorn can with his dispel magic + carsomyr. And 50% magic resistance is fantastic! Korgan is a great fighter, and end game he's the better damage dealer, and his rage makes him immune to the most frustrating things. But as a balanced all around character for a party, i feel that Keldorn does more for your party. But it's totally fine as one if evil and the other is good, a great balance when it comes to the fighter pool in BG2.
Keldorn will very rarely be the right level to turn undead, but if you're playing with a small party he can still do it decently effective.
He's got a great personality, many dialogues around the whole game and his quest with his wife is one of those that make you smile. Hes not a dragonslayer VII with arms like steel and long blonde hair, he is an old man with gray hair trying to make the world into a better place while being there for his family.
And it's totally worth bringing him with you do De'arnise keep just for his dialogue with Nalias aunt
Cheers for you Keldorn!
[Edited] : My Keldorn uses :
Helm : Helm of defense
Amulet : Amulet + 5 of magic resistance -> Amulet of seldarine (ToB)
Chest : Family armor
Ring : Ring of Gaxx
Ring : Ring of fire control
Boots : Boots of grounding
Belt : Any strenght enhancing belt.
Gloves : Gauntlets of Dexterity
Cloak : Cloak of Sewers
Weapon 1 : Carsomyr
Weapon 2 : Mace of disruption + 2
Shield : Balduran
This puts his resistance as the following
Fire : 70
Lightning : 70
Magic : 65
His saves are + 4 from items.
And his armor class is -7 with a two hander.
He is immune to : Poison, disease, hold, slow, charm. And he can improve haste himself.
And he regenerates 1HP / 3 seconds.
The reason i give ring of Gaxx to him is because it works well with his family armor as it's magical and he can't use a ring of protection +2.
Keldorn can work fine with lesser gear aswell. The only thing he requires to be powerful is gauntlets of dexterity.
Post edited by SionIV on
9
Comments
I forgot to mention Sarevok, so he would come behind Korgan and Sarevok.
Keldorn Vs Minsc : Keldorn has better stats, and carsomyr is better than any weapon minsc can get.
Keldorn Vs Valygar : Better stats than valygar, as a paladin he has better saves than valygar. His kit is alot better than stalker, and carsomyr wielding Keldorn will deal a little less damage than Valygar dual wielding, but he'll be alot more efficient in surviving and fighting mages which happen to be the hardest fights in BG2. He is also immune to alot of things that would shut Valygar down.
Keldorn Vs Mazzy : The fact that she uses short bow, short sword and got worse stats than Keldorn sadly makes her lose the fight. Even if you use NPC1 or shadowkeeper to move her prof's around she'll still be worse than him, and it's not exactly legit.
Anomen would win over Korgan and Sarevok if buffed up on clerical spells, so i'm not using him here. He's worse than all of he mentioned until he starts getting high levels and acces to his better spells.
If you were going to go through SoA and ToB with a team of 3 characters. Keldorn would do more for your team than any of the mentioned above, including sarevok unless you dual class him the moment you get him. When it comes to high level, the difference between the melee power houses is so little, that if you kill someone 110% or 130% the thing is still dead anyhow.
And i'm not saying Mazzy, Valygar or Minsc are bad. They are all great characters, and i love playing with Mazzy even though she is most of the time an underdog. Minsc got his great dialogues and just makes you laugh while playing. And valygar might be the silent brooding type, but give him two pair of swords and he'll cleave through most enemies and then chunk some with his backstab. His bonus spells are also great!
[Edited] : Minsc dual wielding FoA +5 and Foebane would deal more damage than Keldorn with carsomyr. But the moment you have FoA +5 and Foebane +5 you're so far into the game that that extra damage won't be nearly as useful as 65 magic resistance and the other goodies a paladin can get.
Also want to say that FoA is simply amazing weapon, slow + elemental damage to interrupt is great. And i would put it at the same level of destroying casters as Carsomyr.
But the argument with all the other warriors except Keldorn is that they will end up dual wielding, and Keldorn should always use carsomyr. And Two handed will be more efficient at an early level, but once you get end game not even a carsomyr wielding charname paladin with godlike stats will do more damage than someone dual wielding. Unless you include improved haste, greater whirlwind and the like.
Inquisitor immunities are ok, but nothing you can't give others with a couple of buffs.
PC paladins with spellcasting will be even better in melee due to DUHM. In BG2EE, Korgan and Sarevok will catch up a bit to the higher damage resistance classes due to the GM buff.
I also disagree that he's got better stats than the likes of Valygar. Valygar has the same strength, 1 less constitution and 18 natural dex so he can use another set of gloves. He can also stealth and backstab, something many seem to forget. And speaking of powerful starting gear Valygar has som nice items too. He also still has access to his priest spells so armor of faith, insect swarm etc. I feel Valygar is one of the most underrated NPCs in the series, I always include that badass ranger in my party.
FoA +5 and Defender of Easthaven is the best setup you can use if you want damage reduction and survivability against melee.
Why would you have to be a douche to keep him on your team? You can go talk to the guy in waukeen, and then give keldorn a day with his family and return after him. He'll tell them that it's the last time and he'll return to them. Yes you can tell him from the start to remain with his family, and you lose him for the rest of the game. But i believe that the best option for him as a person would be to honor his last mission. He does tell you that he will help you, and imagine if you left him behind he would probably end up thinking about what will happen to the Bhaalspawn and the world after he goes through it.
He's got alot better stats than Valygar. Not everything is focused around the 3 main : Strenght, Constitution, Dexterity.
Keldorn got a score of 98 with gauntlets of dexterity. Valygar can use another set of gloves (This would give him 1/2 APR) but he's still behind when fighting against mindflayers or doing a simple thing like trading (18 charisma, i play with randomized loot so i don't always get that charisma ring). A mind flayer will kill Valygar on the second hit, while keldorn will survive.
Backstabbing is great, i agree with this. But he's got only +3 and that's at a high level, so i'm happier about his haste from the stalker kit than his backstabbing. Also everything i want to backstab is either immune or has so many layers of stoneskin that i'm going to have to wait until christmas to deal any damage.
A ranger can only cast up to level 3 spells (Paladin can cast up to level 4) So he wouldn't have insect plague (Level 5 spell). Armor of faith is a nice ability, especially when you also use Defender of Easthaven. But you'll have to be very high level to reach a decent damage reduction.
Valygar has a +2 family weapon that is worse than Keldorns (Or more like.. different than Keldorns) and his armor is downright worse. A full plate mail + 1 with the +1 saves from having a ring of protection and free action ontop of that? Amazing!
Keldorn truly shines early and mid in the game, and later on in the game his dispel magic will destroy all the threats.
I have the feeling that people don't understand just how amazing his dispel magic is. It's so much better than anyone elses, and dispels at a much higher level. It makes the hardest fights in the game trivial. It's so good that even SCS have a component to nerf it and scale it down.
He could have the stats :
15 strenght
12 dexterity
14 constitution
12 intelligence
16 wisdom
18 charisma.
And his dispel magic would still put him up there with the best NPC's in the game. You lose out on Armor of Faith, Death ward and DUHM. But you can get all theese effects from others in your team, or by using gear / potions. While the dispel magic is something no one else even comes close to.
[Edited] :
Valygars armor -
Armor class 2
25% resistance to fire
25% resistance to acid
25% resistance to magical damage (Magic missile, abi, skulltrap)
Immune to charm.
Keldorns armor -
Armor class 0
Saving throws + 1 (Same as having a ring of protection with a full plate)
Free action -> Can't get slowed, hasted, stunned by spells like hold/Web/entangle or by mind flayers psionic blast.
Keldorn is already from the start immune to Charm.
So it's :
2 armor class, + 1 saving throw, free action Vs 25% resistance to Fire, Acid and Magic damage.
The only reason they gave him such a good armor, is because of his abyssmal dexterity of 9. Once you give him gauntlets of dexterity he's got a -4 armor right from the start with nothing but his armor on.
Keldorn is a great NPC.
I say this based almost entirely on his personality and interactions.
The problem is though, like a previous poster, I just don't feel right dragging him away from his family. Maybe the original poster can RP it that he wants to go, but I guarantee his wife and kids don't want him too. I feel like I'm destroying any chance he has at fixing his family by forcing him to stay with me.
Insect swarm (might be summon insects) is a lesser version of insect plague available at level 3, just so you know. He also has access to miscast magic
My PC always has at least 18 charisma (godchild, duh) so I wouldn't benefit from that, I can see that others would. Wisdom has about as much use as the lint in my pocket and for the mindflayer fights you can just use potions there as well - your own argument. And of course it matters that he has lower dex. You might have other characters that could benefit from the dex gloves, like say Anomen.
His dispel is indeed awesome, but it is also pretty much the only above average trait he has.
Edit: Delvarian took the words out of my mouth
2.) He can keep his promise to CHARNAME and do a last journey with him.
3.) [SPOILERS] If you read his epilogue, even if he didn't follow you, he would still have went up against the giants and died in the name of Torm. So he can either help my character save thousends of lifes, and be on a great journey to godhood. Or he can stay home with his family for a couple of years and then go fight the giants and die on a battlefield. I really can't see how it's selfish to give him a day with his family, have him uphold his last promise bound by honor. And then return him safely after i have declined or accepted godhood.
I never use the lesser version, as it's not very reliable so that's why i thought you meant the level 5 priest spell. Those gloves give more to Keldorn than Anomen. And Anomen being a fighter dual classed to cleric can use DUHM to boost his own dexterity and stats.
His dispel isn't just awesome. It's game breaking how good it is. You're dispelling at twice your level. When you're level 10 (600 000 experience) you dispel on the same level as a cleric on level 20 (2 700 000) and a Mage on level 20 (3 750 000). So you're dispelling liches before going to spellhold, while a mage or cleric has to be in ToB to do the same with dispel magic.
"But it's pretty much the only above average trait he has"
1.) He's a paladin, +2 saving throws.
2.) He has 98 in score with gauntlets of dexterity. And the gauntlets were taken from BG1 and used in BG2 with him in mind (You get them from the mission the order have him undertake).
3.) He can use Carsomyr.
4.) His dispel magic.
5.) Immunity to every single frustrating ability undeads can do except level drain.
6.) Best personal items in the game
7.) Easy to get hold of, no hard quest attached to him. (Haer'dalis, mazzy, valygar)
8.) You can get Carsomyr early (After you get out of the slums), which is the most powerful weapon in SoA and can easily hold up to the best in ToB once you upgrade it to +6. No other character except Sarevok can end up with an amazing weapon like this, that early. Celestial fury is great, but the fact that it's only +3 makes it useless end game. This is the reason there are many mods out there that upgrade it to +5 to keep it viable.
There are so many "Above average" things Keldorn has going for him. That when i look at the other fighters, doing the same. I just can't see what makes them even close to him.
Valygar :
1.) Backstab
2.) Haste and other useful mage spells
3.) up to level 3 cleric spells.
4.) Decent family armor and weapon, both will be replaced rather fast.
He has almost the same warrior stats (Str, Dex, Con) as the rest of the melee.
Minsc :
1.) A decent rage
2.) Nice strenght score without belt
3.) Up to level 3 cleric spells
4.) Boooo!
5.) You get him right from the start
Mazzy :
1.) Nice dexterity score if you use her as ranged.
2.) A nice sword that gives her immune to hold.
3.) Some amazing abilities that only she gets, STR 18, haste and lay on hands several times a day.
4.) Midget saving throws
Korgan :
1.) 19 constitution
2.) Nice strenght stat without belt
3.) Best rage in game.
4.) Pure fighter
5.) Midget saving throws
6.) You get him early on, and his quest is quite simple and not that hard.
Sarevok :
1.) Amazing stats, not as good as keldorn (If you give him dexterity gauntlets) but more defined where it matters for a fighter.
2.) Pure fighter
3.) Can dual class to mage or thief
4.) Deathbringer assault.
Sarevok has the highest natural stats at 95.
Keldorn comes in on a second place with 89 (98 with gauntlets)
Bored with vanilla BG2.
Install SCS.
Take Keldorn.
Play vanilla BG2.
So basically, you got smarter Mages pre-buffing in vain, and the only real difference is they'll kite you while waiting to try and get a MI or SS up, which will be down shortly thereafter.
Why not just not allow pre-buffing?
But outside of the dispel magic, hes really nothing special as a melee fighter - I'm not saying hes bad, just no better than the others. Carsomyr is a great weapon, but there are other great weapons too. It's pretty easy to get Full Plate +1 early on and a better sword than his starting gear.
Not that it matters a jot, as that's what Anomen is for (and he can dual-wield with FoA +5 and DoE). He makes a fantastic team with Keldorn doing that, especially if Anomen has a helm of charm protection and the Mace of Disruption +2 for any undead encounters - two uncharmable melee killing machines. True Sight and Dispel Magic utterly wreck any mages trying to spoil the party.
You can get lilacor which is better than his starting weapon unless you're fighting Iron/adamantite golems or kangaxx.
If you ignore watchers keep, there are no weapons even close in SoA before you get to underdark, which is past over half of the game. And it's the earliest you can get a +5 weapon in the game, not to mention it's one of the best weapons in the game.
Minsc, Valygar, Keldorn, Korgan are on about the same level when it comes to melee powerhouses. It's what they bring to the party outside of that which is importan. And his stat score, along with the inquisitor perk brings more to the party than the others do. I'm not putting Sarevok into the equation because his deathbringer assault is random and ridiculous.
My experience is that Keldorn's raw effectiveness in melee is roughly on a par with the other warrior NPCs, a little better at some points in the game and a little worse at other points (depending upon what equipment and so on is available at that point).
Adding in his extra-powered Dispel Magic and extra-fast True Sight, and the Magic Resistance and Dispel-on-hit from wielding Carsomyr, I agree with @SionIV that Keldorn has an edge because I find these features more frequently decisive in combat than the special features of any of the other warrior NPCs. However, that's probably dependent upon playing style, so YMMV.
Keldorn is awesome as a NPC persona
I am planing to play as my own CHARNAME version of Keldorn
same stats who slighty higher
if thwere is ever a Baldur's Gate movie
Keldorn should be in it and played by Russell Crowe
And i run the SCS component that change them to +2 so i had totally forgot about them. Thank you for refreshing my memory
His interactions and character are most interesting, and he get along surprisingly well with Haer' Dalis, Korgan and Sarevok.
I don't like him. He's a prejudiced zealot who puts his duty before his family. And that's coming from a guy who has never done an evil playthrough.
It's funny how the other member of the Order of the Radiant Heart you can recruit also has a flawed personality.
With SCS, I don't find Kheldorn's dispel magic even remotely gamebreaking against powerful mages.