Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Keldorn, you're the man!

2»

Comments

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Kilivitz said:

    Keldorn is a decent warrior and a well-written NPC with an interesting story and nice interactions. However...

    I don't like him. He's a prejudiced zealot who puts his duty before his family. And that's coming from a guy who has never done an evil playthrough.

    It's funny how the other member of the Order of the Radiant Heart you can recruit also has a flawed personality.

    What makes you a good man, is not "not having flaws in your heart", but being strong enough to prevent them to guide your actions ;-)

    ... complete opposite of evil characters that will let these kind of thoughts, emotions and so on guide their ways...

    Mortianna
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    edited March 2013
    SionIV said:


    Dual wielding is better until the point you can use Improved haste. Improved haste + Greater whirlwind is the same amount of APR with a Two hander as you get from dual wielding. Using belm or kundane is great early on in the game, but shouldn't be used late unless you're a blade or swasbhuckler. Having one of your swords deal 0 damage (Many things are immune to +2) will put your damage under a two hander.


    Backstabbing is great, i agree with this. But he's got only +3 and that's at a high level, so i'm happier about his haste from the stalker kit than his backstabbing. Also everything i want to backstab is either immune or has so many layers of stoneskin that i'm going to have to wait until christmas to deal any damage.

    How is dual wielding better until you get Improved Haste? Dual wielding is better before since it does more damage, and becomes even better after you get Improved Haste. If a 2H character does 8 damage per round, and a dual-wielder 10 (a difference of 2) then once Improved Haste is applied that difference doubles (i.e. 4).

    Once you get GWW 2H weapons catch up to a degree, but then dual-wielders get Critical Strike (which yes, doesn't affect everything but does affect most). I'm not sure why you would combine IH and GWW.

    Belm and Kundane are equally great throughout because, as you know, thei extra attack goes to the main hand and while some things require +3 or greater to hit, the vast majority don't.

    I don't understand what you mean when you say 'he's only got +3'. If you mean Stalkers only get a x3 backstab multiplier then they infact get x4 at level 17 (the original description was wrong). If you mean he only gets a +3 weapon (i.e. Celestial Fury) then he gets whatever you decide to spend proficiency points in (and I'd put Celestial Fury as best/joint best weapon in SoA anyway).

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited March 2013
    ryuken87 said:

    SionIV said:


    Dual wielding is better until the point you can use Improved haste. Improved haste + Greater whirlwind is the same amount of APR with a Two hander as you get from dual wielding. Using belm or kundane is great early on in the game, but shouldn't be used late unless you're a blade or swasbhuckler. Having one of your swords deal 0 damage (Many things are immune to +2) will put your damage under a two hander.


    Backstabbing is great, i agree with this. But he's got only +3 and that's at a high level, so i'm happier about his haste from the stalker kit than his backstabbing. Also everything i want to backstab is either immune or has so many layers of stoneskin that i'm going to have to wait until christmas to deal any damage.

    How is dual wielding better until you get Improved Haste? Dual wielding is better before since it does more damage, and becomes even better after you get Improved Haste. If a 2H character does 8 damage per round, and a dual-wielder 10 (a difference of 2) then once Improved Haste is applied that difference doubles (i.e. 4).

    Once you get GWW 2H weapons catch up to a degree, but then dual-wielders get Critical Strike (which yes, doesn't affect everything but does affect most). I'm not sure why you would combine IH and GWW.

    Belm and Kundane are equally great throughout because, as you know, thei extra attack goes to the main hand and while some things require +3 or greater to hit, the vast majority don't.

    I don't understand what you mean when you say 'he's only got +3'. If you mean Stalkers only get a x3 backstab multiplier then they infact get x4 at level 17 (the original description was wrong). If you mean he only gets a +3 weapon (i.e. Celestial Fury) then he gets whatever you decide to spend proficiency points in (and I'd put Celestial Fury as best/joint best weapon in SoA anyway).
    Two handing is better at the start because of Thac0, and that you'll have to sacrifice less prof points unless you're a ranger to get good at it. And while two handed weapon style is a bonus, you don't have to get it to be decent, if you don't get two weapon style you're so gimped with your Thac0 that you won't be able to hit anything.

    2* long sword
    3* dual wield

    2* two handed sword
    2* halberd
    1* two handed weapon style.

    Carsomyr is much better than anything you get can get to dual wield for a very long time when you start the game (FoA comes closest). You can also pick up some great halberds early on, and Ravager +6 is without doubt the best weapon in the game.

    Belm and Kundane are good at the start - early mid game, and mostly for blades and swashbuckler because they have a hard time to get up their APR otherwise. Both Belm and Kundane do pitiful damage, and they won't be able to hit some of the enemies. (Kundane is also piercing, so can say goodbye to golems, sadly the same goes for halbers). Yes the charm with them is that the extra APR you get is with your main hand, but you're still swinging your of hand aswell.

    Celestial fury is far from the best weapon in SoA. FoA +3 is better than it, and if you get the upgrade from watcher's keep its much better. I would also put Dragons Breath +4 over celestial fury, it's got the +4 and the extra elemental damage works like FoA.

    GW with carsomyr +6, or crtical with Foebane +5 and FoA +5 is going to overkill anything you fight anyway. So you'll have to look at what they bring to the table other than damage, and carsomyr does more for your paladin than dual wielding any two weapons would.

    FoA is the golden grail when it comes to dual wielding, it's insanely good and can fight mages just as well as carsomyr can.

    I haven't played a stalker for a long time, and its one of my least favorite classes, so i have to admit that i just looked at the manual. I'm glad that you corrected me :)

    GW Ravager +6 is better than anything you can dual wield in the game. Closest you'll get to it is Axe of the unyielding, and that axe isn't even as good as the ravager.

    [Edited] : The reason i said that dual wielding is better until you get improved haste, is because those early APR are god sent. But once you get improved haste and you're talking about 5+ APR, you got such a good damage that you won't have to worry about killing someone.

    I rather pick FoA + Belm (4½ APR) than Carsomyr (2½ APR) when i'm fighting a dragon or golem. But once you get past that 5APR with improved haste you're starting to reliably overkill things with your weapon and thats when i look at what they give other than damage.

    Also i would rather dual wield FoA and Defender of Easthaven than use belm or kundane for extra APR. I put 20% damage reduction over 1 APR.

    So my argument in short words : There is nothing in this game that Carsomyr +5/+6 won't kill quickly once you got improved haste on him. When you put in GW and Critical you're going to overkill anything that doesn't have stoneskin or PFMW/Mantle. And when you hit a stoneskin it doesn't matter if you're making a critical or not.

    Carsomyrs extra abilities -> Everything else.

    Weapons that are better than celestial fury in SoA. (My opinion)

    Flail of Ages +3
    Dragon's Breath +4
    Halberd +4 'The Wave' (15% - 15 damage VS 10% - 20 damage. I rate the ability to hit as +4 over the stun)
    Blackrazor +3 (Had to mention it, but i dislike it and you get it late game)
    Carsomyr +5

    Things you can get from WK. Theese weapons are still in SoA, but are ToB standard and some of them hard to get.

    Flail of Ages +4
    Axe of the unyielding +3
    Foebane +3
    Purifier +4
    Angurvadale +4
    Spectral brand +4

    Post edited by SionIV on
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,461
    Stickan said:

    Prejudice against a clearly still evil drow, preaching about her evil godess, is sort of motivated though being a paladin and all. Just saying ;)

    I guess, but he still gets on my nerves. I'll admit, though, that maybe there's a little irony in what I've said.

    What makes you a good man, is not "not having flaws in your heart", but being strong enough to prevent them to guide your actions ;-)

    ... complete opposite of evil characters that will let these kind of thoughts, emotions and so on guide their ways...

    I agree. And I think it's cool that regarding his family, he eventually sees the error of his ways and tries to make amends (unless, of course, you keep him around).

    But still... he gets on my nerves. Whenever I feel like having a Paladin around, I tend to roll one myself.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2013
    SionIV said:

    AHF said:

    I'm not sure I understand this.

    Bored with vanilla BG2.
    Install SCS.
    Take Keldorn.
    Play vanilla BG2.

    So basically, you got smarter Mages pre-buffing in vain, and the only real difference is they'll kite you while waiting to try and get a MI or SS up, which will be down shortly thereafter.

    Why not just not allow pre-buffing?

    SCS is highly versatile. While I didn't expressly intend for this, every mage seems to pre-buff or shoot off a contingency, etc. with protection from abjuration in which case Kheldorn's dispel magic is useless until that spell is gone.

    With SCS, I don't find Kheldorn's dispel magic even remotely gamebreaking against powerful mages.
    It's still game breaking enough with SCS, that they put in a component to nerf it. SCS mages are protected quite well against it (High level ones) but every single cleric / druid group in the game can't do anything but watch their spells get stripped.
    It is a matter of opinion and mine is that it isn't gamebreaking. Given that the entire point of the Inquisitor class is the ability to take down evil magic users, it doesn't hurt my head. There are tons of evil mages in BG2/TOB. It is hard to name a single cleric / druid of any consequence that Kheldorn can fight. (The one druid of any consequence is not fightable by him during a normal run). Without the powerful dispel magic, an inquistor doesn't have much to recommend it which some people may like from a balancing perspective but I don't think the spellcasters in BG2 need any more boosting relative to paladins given their default level of power. (Which is why the fact that you can use SCS to improve them by smarter AI rather than cheats or nerfs is great).

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,129
    He's powerful, but I never use have him in the party. I don't believe he would help me do tasks for the shadow thieves, disguise himself as a drow, apply for work at the unseeing eye's base...

  • DarrylsonDarrylson Member Posts: 87
    DJKajuru said:

    He's powerful, but I never use have him in the party. I don't believe he would help me do tasks for the shadow thieves, disguise himself as a drow, apply for work at the unseeing eye's base...

    He would probably take on the drow disguise and then start killing every drow in a 10 mile radius as soon as you got your hands on the Dragon Eggs (thats how I play it anyway.) He probably also understands that your work for the Unseeing Eye Cult is strictly undercover, and nothing about what they have you do violates his Lawful Good morality.

    The Shadow Thieves thing, yeah I can agree with you there, unless you consider the fact that he might see the Vampire Guild as a much greater threat that warrants working with them momentarily, and he does say that he'll be visiting the Shadow Thief guild hall "later on his own" when you go there with him.

  • ICNICN Member Posts: 61
    SionIV said:

    snip

    Well yes, overkilling is kind of the point. All that extra damage can be used to kill the next thing as well before the round is over. That's not to say that Carsomyr isn't good, It's just that there's no one 'best' way for every situation.

Sign In or Register to comment.