Chelsey Crusher Halberd

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Tresset

It is in the one area directly east of the gnoll fortress (area with the waterfall and the dead cat). A fella named Ingot holds it. He doesn't start hostile and will either run away or attack you depending on a dialog choice.

You may have missed it.

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Gallowglass

Not quite, @Tresset:-

Ingot doesn't start hostile if you haven't yet been to the Gnoll Stronghold to rescue Dynaheir. However, if you've already done that quest before meeting Ingot, then he does start hostile.

Therefore, @Bhaaldog:-

The advantageous (and in my opinion natural) strategy for Lawful Good is to rescue Dynaheir early, which "coincidentally" means that Ingot will be immediately hostile instead of entering a dialogue, so you don't have any roleplaying problem about killing him and getting the Chesley Crusher.

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Tresset

I actually think that it is a wonderful halberd on the right kind of character. A bard, for instance, will never get more than 1 APR with a halberd anyway (knowing the level cap) and the huge bonus to damage really cuts through the enemies.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

I know of +1 Halberd found in a cave somewhere in the Early Game. How does it compare with Chelsey Crusher??

Tresset

Funny you mention that @Eadwyn_G8keeper. The cave with the +1 halberd is in the same place as chelsey crusher. As for the comparison the chelsey crusher is +2 thac0 with 1d10+6 damage but it forces only one attack per round. The +1 halberd is fairly standard issue with +1 thac0 and 1d10+1 damage.

secretmantra

@Tresset

Funny you should mention that. This halberd would be perfect for a Blade (with halberd prof.) in my current run. I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.

Tresset

@secretmantra I may have said haste boosted the APR... well I was wrong apparently. But offensive spin does boost the APR to 2. This may be a bug though...

Tresset

@Jalily is that a bug? I could make a report if it is.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

1d10+6 is comparable to 2 attacks with a 1d10+1 weapon, excluding bonus factors, so the APR limit is negligible compared to 1.5APR with the Cavern Halberd, which leaves the +2Thaco vs +1Thaco. Is it feasible to alternate with a quick Dart [3APR] in between Chelsea Crusher attacks?? Perhaps that would allow Opponent to Engage in Close Melee that would disadvantage Halberd as I am thinking it requires a certain distance for effective functioning. Is that true--re Halberd requiring some space for best Thaco??

Gallowglass

Yes indeed, @secretmantra, the Chesley Crusher is an excellent Bard weapon.

However, because of its special limitation to 1 APR even for characters who normally get >1 APR, it's not a good choice for Halberd-wielding warriors (except perhaps early on, if they haven't yet gained any bonus APR). No-one except warrior classes and Bards can wield Halberds anyway, so the Chesley Crusher is basically a Bard weapon.

The natural development for a Blade is dual-wielding, but the high damage of the Chesley Crusher gives Blades a reasonable two-handed alternative. For any other Bard or Bard-kit, getting the Chesley Crusher makes Halberd and Two-Handed Style the natural development.

Jalily

@Tresset It's a bug. I've reported it.

Gallowglass

Tresset said:

@Jalily is that a bug? I could make a report if it is.

No doubt she'll respond in due course, but I reckon it's the intended behaviour.

Tresset

@Gallowglass look up. You got ninja'd.

Gallowglass

@Tresset: yep.

Oxford_Guy

Gallowglass said:

Yes indeed, @secretmantra, the Chesley Crusher is an excellent Bard weapon.

Unless you're a Blade (assuming bug is fixed), though this isn't just because of the APR limitation, but because Blades are best used for dual-wielding - they're the only Bard kit that can put points into dual-wield, so it's worth making the most of this, though dual-wield only really comes into it's own in BG2, where you can benefit much more from the special abilities of the magic weapons this has (e.g. extra attacks/spells/resistances)

So why does this matter for BGEE? Given the limited number of proficiency points that Bards get, I think it's worth Blades putting as many points as possible into dual-wield in BGEE, so that you can start BG2 with full capabilities. My current Blade build plan is:

EDIT: Proficiency levels corrected

Level 1:
Scimitars+ (dual-wield Drizzt's +3 Icing Death, and the +2 Rashad's Talon - assume alignment of CN or Evil, as would be highly dubious RP-wise to pickpocket Drizzt otherwise, so can't use Twinkle. Can use the +1 Wakazashi early on, before getting the other weapons).
Dual wield +

Level 4:
Dual wield ++ (can start dual-wielding without penalty from this point - worth it for offensive spins, at least, though may wish to use a buckler still when not)

Level 8:
Dual wield +++ (might as well dual-wield all the time from this point)

No ranged weapon proficiency, but non-proficiency penalty is more than compensated for if you use the +5 THAC0 Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy, which is devastating with offensive spin (2APR, 14 damage each hit)

The Chesley Crusher is great for other Bards, though. especially more melee-oriented ones like a Skald, though it's also worth having the normal +2 Halberd in you inventory too, for when you want to get Hasted.

Gallowglass

Oxford_Guy said:

Unless you're a Blade (assuming bug is fixed) ...

Yes, I described the Chesley Crusher as a reasonable alternative to dual-wielding for a Blade on the assumption that it was intended behaviour that Offensive Spin hasted this halberd.

Now that @Jalily has told us that this is a bug, I agree that the Chesley Crusher is not a sensible Blade option, and Blades are always more sensibly developed for dual-wielding.

Thus the Chesley Crusher (if this bug is fixed) is a sensible weapon for non-Blade Bards and no-one else.

@Jalily: even if it wasn't intended that Offensive Spin should haste the Chesley Crusher, I reckon it's not a bad idea for a Blade to have a reasonable two-handed alternative to the ubiquitous dual-wielding build. Therefore I think this is a serendipitous bug, an actual improvement on the original intent. Would it be possible to ask the devs to change their intended mechanic and declare this bug to be an intended feature instead of fixing it?

@Oxford_Guy: I agree that that's a sensible proficiency plan for a Blade (although obviously you meant to refer to levels 1/4/8, not 1/2/3). As an alternative, since the gain from the third point in dual-wield is not as great as the gain from the first two points, it wouldn't be absurd to use 1 point for a ranged weapon instead of the third in dual-wield (although the third in dual-wield would then certainly be the priority for next proficiency once you're in BG2). As another alternative, proficiency in either Axes or Daggers would give you a weapon which is both dual-wieldable and throwable, so that'd be quite a sensible plan too - I'm planning to try out an Axe-wielding Blade in my run-after-next.

Oxford_Guy

@Oxford_Guy: I agree that that's a sensible proficiency plan for a Blade (although obviously you meant to refer to levels 1/4/8, not 1/2/3).

Oops! Yes, that's what I meant, now corrected...

As an alternative, since the gain from the third point in dual-wield is not as great as the gain from the first two points, it wouldn't be absurd to use 1 point for a ranged weapon instead of the third in dual-wield (although the third in dual-wield would then certainly be the priority for next proficiency once you're in BG2). As another alternative, proficiency in either Axes or Daggers would give you a weapon which is both dual-wieldable and throwable, so that'd be quite a sensible plan too - I'm planning to try out an Axe-wielding Blade in my run-after-next.

Yes, that could be fun, though there is no +3 axe in BGEE and no +2 one early on either. The lack of ranged weapon proficiency is really not a major issue if playing in a party, especially once you can get the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy, though. Another benefit of going scimitars, is that there are plenty of good scimitars in BG2...

franco

I've usually given the magic halberds in BGEE to Kivan, since he should always carry a longbow. He stands just behind the major tank with the lowest AC and he deals out a large amount of damage.

Gallowglass

franco said:

I've usually given the magic halberds in BGEE to Kivan, since he should always carry a longbow. He stands just behind the major tank with the lowest AC and he deals out a large amount of damage.

Yes, that's a sensible use for Halberds in general.

If Kivan has neither an extra 1/2 APR for reaching level 7 nor an extra 1/2 APR for a second point in Halberds, and if he isn't Hasted, then the Chesley Crusher is the best Halberd to give him.

However, if Kivan has either (or both) APR bonuses or if he's Hasted, then you might want to give him a magical Halberd which doesn't restrict him to only 1 APR. By the time he reaches level 7, he's almost certainly better off with the ordinary +2 Halberd (which you've probably found by then) and multiple attacks, rather than the Chesley Crusher and one attack.

zur312

halabers and others 2handed
why are they so bad?
scimitar +3 has medium 7,5 dmg
halaberd +2 7,5
and dual wielding is more more apr(can't dualwield halabards)

ConjurerDragon

I just found the Cesley Crusher and wonder about it´s description as "slow and unwieldy". Sure it´s heavy. But it´s speed factor is 7 compared to a normal Halberds 9 and the Halberd +1´s 8.
Shouldn´t it be slower than those other Halberds?

Griboe

ConjurerDragon said:

I just found the Cesley Crusher and wonder about it´s description as "slow and unwieldy". Sure it´s heavy. But it´s speed factor is 7 compared to a normal Halberds 9 and the Halberd +1´s 8.
Shouldn´t it be slower than those other Halberds?

"Slow" is in regards to it's permanent 1 Attack Per Round. No matter what class or how proficient the wielder may be in Halberds. It's a good choice for Bards as they never rise above 1APR.

Speed "controls" how soon into a Round (6seconds. 10 Rounds make a Turn.) you get to attack.