Is there a mod for persistent bard song (and undead turning) while fighting?

Wowo

So the way I always understood Bard Song to work in PnP was that while you were using bard song you could take basic actions such as moving and fighting but if you used any special abilities then the bard song would cease to function.

Currently this is possible via intense micromanagement but it's too much of a headache to be bothered with.

Is there a mod which achieves this desired functionality? Basically to be able to fight and sing but as soon as an ability (ie, offensive spin), item (ie, wand or potion) or spell is used then the song is turned off?

Making Turn Undead more user friendly is an option too ...

Copastetic1985

I'd like this implemented as well. I mean seriously...I can't sing and swing a sword or shoot an arrow? It's not like they're busting out an electric guitar. They're singing. I sing in the shower, sing on the toilet, sing while working, sing while cooking...you get the idea. Why can't they?

As it stands, even though I love playing my Skalds, I feel like 90% of the time my party's carrying around a radio. Sure, I can chain casting spells or attacking a few times before the round is over, but it's kind of a hassle I wish I didn't have to deal with.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Wowo

subtledoctor said:

Well, I don't know that fighting for your life as a huge monster tries to cleave you apart with a razor-sharp weapon counts as a "basic action." Certainly if I was in that situation, I think I would shut up and focus on the fight.

And this would be kind of incredibly overpowered. Especially for a skald - he would basically have a permanent double-strength Bless + Defensive Harmony, stackable with the spells. Thst's just crazy. Yes you can kind of do it now by super-micromanaging his every action... but it's kind of like in the old days of analogue cable when you could catch glimpses of soft-porn by clicking very quickly between two channels. A pain in the ass, yes; but if 13-year-old me had asked my mother to just let me watch porn so I didn't have to do it, the answer would have been 'no.' Appropriately so.

On the other hand, it would be nice if there was some progression between the vanilla song and the HLA lingering song. Maybe songs should linger for one round (basically, vanilla) and then one extra round for every five levels you gain.

Singing while fighting is just as difficult as any other task that has to be done on the battlefield from blowing signal horns, binding wounds, bearing a standard, holding a line, casting a spell, fumbling in your pack for a potion ... Sure, perhaps the song could be disrupted for a round if you take too much damage and obviously the song stops if you do anything other than basic attacking but as it stands I just don't see it as realistic that a professional musician couldn't maintain his concentration in a difficult situation.

LordsDarkKnight185

Copastetic1985 said:

I'd like this implemented as well. I mean seriously...I can't sing and swing a sword or shoot an arrow? It's not like they're busting out an electric guitar. They're singing. I sing in the shower, sing on the toilet, sing while working, sing while cooking...you get the idea. Why can't they?

Actually it is insinuated that you are using an instrument. the simple model doesn't show an instrument, but If i remember correctly when using bard song you are required to play an instrument to use the effect.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Nifft

I'm working on a mod to split songs into Passive and Active effects.

Passive will be on all the time, Active will preclude other activities (except walking around).

TJ_Hooker

Wowo said:

So the way I always understood Bard Song to work in PnP was that while you were using bard song you could take basic actions such as moving and fighting but if you used any special abilities then the bard song would cease to function.

I was under the impression that in P&P the bard song functioned as an activated ability, rather than a toggled mode. So you'd spend a round or whatever singing your song (and taking no other action), and then the bonus from that song would last the next X number of rounds, during which you could perform actions as you nomally would. That's just based on what I remember from some posts made by some P&Pers on this site from a while back, I've never actually played P&P myself.

Copastetic1985 said:

I'd like this implemented as well. I mean seriously...I can't sing and swing a sword or shoot an arrow? It's not like they're busting out an electric guitar. They're singing. I sing in the shower, sing on the toilet, sing while working, sing while cooking...you get the idea. Why can't they?

You find sitting on the can to be on par with fighting for your life? You may want to get that checked out.

Copastetic1985

@TJ_Hooker

lol I'm just saying. But...sometimes after some Mexican or Viet food...

Wowo

@subtledoctor I did put singing and casting a spell in the same list. I put them in the list of things that can be done in battle but that doesn't mean they aren't exclusive of each other. As I made clear, the only thing you should be able to do while having your bard song active is moving and attacking.

I don't see a balance issue. The only bard character that can put out significant damage is a blade and their song is rubbish and it would be exclusive with the blade abilities anyway. A skald song can add from 12 to, say, 26 damage/round in BG1; adding an attack rotation for a skald isn't going to break the game.

In BG2 the additional damage the skald song adds is going to make any melee or ranged contribution pale in comparison when you consider other characters using whirlwinds and having 6+ attacks/round already.

It's really just about fun factor. Is it fun to have your character stand around doing nothing with an ability active? No.

If there is a balance issue I'd be fine with some drawback like the song being active setting your attacks/round to 1 which could fit.

Merengue

TJ_Hooker said:

I was under the impression that in P&P the bard song functioned as an activated ability, rather than a toggled mode. So you'd spend a round or whatever singing your song (and taking no other action), and then the bonus from that song would last the next X number of rounds, during which you could perform actions as you nomally would. That's just based on what I remember from some posts made by some P&Pers on this site from a while back, I've never actually played P&P myself.

Not sure which edition, but the one I remember had you basically recite/sing an epic to inspire your allies for a few minutes, and the benefit lasted for a short duration after that. It was basically only usable if you knew exactly when combat was going to happen and had ample time to prep.

leeho730

It may be possible for Jester and Skald, since their bard songs have SPL files so modder can change timing and duration. For example, Jester bard song is treated as spell with duration of 7 seconds, and one can simply increase the duration to 601 seconds so that it would last 10 turns.
For skald, just change the timing mode from "instant/limited (ticks)" to "instant/limited" at Near Infinity and change the duration to your heart's desire.

I'm not sure how one can make so that using special abilities can turn those effects off.... May need some clever scripting.

Jaeldyn

Or it could be done by giving the bard the Lingering Song HLA from the RR mod at lvl 1 (which should be doable by tweaking the 2da of the kit once you have the HLAs installed from the mod).
I think it is doable since HLA are basically spells, so you just need to find the name of the HLA, and give it to the kit with a GA_xxxxxxx at level 1
If I recall correctly, it does give you what you want, a song that last longer than one round.

Wowo

Jaeldyn said:

Or it could be done by giving the bard the Lingering Song HLA from the RR mod at lvl 1 (which should be doable by tweaking the 2da of the kit once you have the HLAs installed from the mod).
I think it is doable since HLA are basically spells, so you just need to find the name of the HLA, and give it to the kit with a GA_xxxxxxx at level 1
If I recall correctly, it does give you what you want, a song that last longer than one round.

An important component is that the Song will stop if any other action is taken besides fighting or moving.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Copastetic1985

@subtledoctor

Detect Traps can be used while attacking.

AHF

Wowo said:

Jaeldyn said:

Or it could be done by giving the bard the Lingering Song HLA from the RR mod at lvl 1 (which should be doable by tweaking the 2da of the kit once you have the HLAs installed from the mod).
I think it is doable since HLA are basically spells, so you just need to find the name of the HLA, and give it to the kit with a GA_xxxxxxx at level 1
If I recall correctly, it does give you what you want, a song that last longer than one round.

An important component is that the Song will stop if any other action is taken besides fighting or moving.

I want the opposite mod - one where I can be sure the character won't stop doing whatever function is selected (turning undead for example) until that stops. I have yet to have success with this even with AI off or the 'control their every move' behavior selected.

I just don't like riding the character searching for traps, turning undead, playing the bard song, etc. to make sure they don't break off and attack someone.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

AHF

You can detect traps and fight in BG2 by clicking to attack and then clicking to detect. The character continues moving to attack. If you click to detect and then attack, it will break off the trap finding. Not sure if that is possible in BG:EE as I haven't tried it.

TJ_Hooker

AHF said:

You can detect traps and fight in BG2 by clicking to attack and then clicking to detect. The character continues moving to attack. If you click to detect and then attack, it will break off the trap finding. Not sure if that is possible in BG:EE as I haven't tried it.

It works the same way in BG:EE.

Copastetic1985

Just as TJ_Hooker said. It works. I wouldn't have said it if it didn't still. lol

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Pecca

You could also create an innate ability with the song effect and use it instead of the actual bard song.

AstroBryGuy

I know this is a long dormant thread, but I saw it and it piqued my interest. I pulled out my Complete Bard's Handbook (2e) and the basic "bard song" ability, called "Rally Allies" requires 3 rounds to complete, after which it lasts for 1 round per level of the bard. Also, the effect of the ability ONE of the following (as chosen by the bard):
* +1 to attack rolls
* +1 to saving
* +2 to morale

Also, from the CBH - "it is impossible to rally allies who are actively battling opponents." I guess its assumed they aren't going to be listening to the bard while fighting for their lives ;-).

So, I'd say that the bard song as implemented in BG:EE is pretty good compared to PnP - it does more than +2 to morale: increases morale to 10, removes fear, and adds protection from fear, doesn't take 3 rounds to cast (i.e., goes into effect right away), and can be started in the middle of combat.

If you wanted to implement PnP bard song, you could make an innate ability with three subspells to choose from, an 18 second casting time, and a duration of 6 seconds per level of the bard. Perhaps worth it for a 10th level bard as a pre-battle buff. Don't know how you'd implement the restriction on not working on allies engaged in active combat, but what are the odds you'd want to use it in the middle of combat with an 18 second casting time?