Tips for being Chaotic Evil?
snowofthrones
Member Posts: 3
Hi, I'm a newcomer to the Baldur's Gate series but I've thoroughly enjoyed my last two playthroughs in the Enhanced Edition; once as a Chaotic Good char, another as a Neutral Evil one.
However I found that due to the many restrictions based on a low reputation (store prices, Neutral characters leaving, Flaming Fist etc.), I've had to play my Neutral Evil character pretty much the same way as a Chaotic Good or Neutral one, albeit with a touch of deviousness behind every action. When I first set out to create him, I envisioned a social Darwinist, a Nietzschean ubermensch, someone who took what he wanted, when he wanted it. He was a Libertarian, and wouldn't stand the Flaming Fist telling him what he could or could not do. He was also contemptuous of the Gods, so no donations, no Talos, Helm or Umberlee bullcrap.
I could deal with the lowered store prices, Jaheira leaving, but the defining obstacle was definitely the Flaming Fist routing me at every turn, especially at early levels when they're hasted and I haven't even encountered the damned spell scroll. So in the end, I had to play it, at the best, in more or less the same way as a Neutral Character. I ended up going out of my way to "help people", just to get those government agents off my back. It was... unsatisfying to say the least.
So I'm looking to start my latest playthrough as a pure Chaotic Evil character, someone who can realise the aspirations I set out for my original Evil character. I'm simply looking for ways to circumvent the Flaming Fist; are there any mods out there specifically for this? Is there any way I can use Shadowkeeper to do something, perhaps to nerf the Flaming Fist enforcers by some measure? Can I alter the reputation at which Flaming Fist dogs jump me? Any console commands that would be helpful?
I strongly believe that Baldur's Gate has the narrative depth to pursue this kind of rewarding role-playing experience. I simple have a small problem with its gameplay mechanics. Any help is appreciated
In case of "tl;dr": I hate the Flaming Fist. How do I get rid of them?
However I found that due to the many restrictions based on a low reputation (store prices, Neutral characters leaving, Flaming Fist etc.), I've had to play my Neutral Evil character pretty much the same way as a Chaotic Good or Neutral one, albeit with a touch of deviousness behind every action. When I first set out to create him, I envisioned a social Darwinist, a Nietzschean ubermensch, someone who took what he wanted, when he wanted it. He was a Libertarian, and wouldn't stand the Flaming Fist telling him what he could or could not do. He was also contemptuous of the Gods, so no donations, no Talos, Helm or Umberlee bullcrap.
I could deal with the lowered store prices, Jaheira leaving, but the defining obstacle was definitely the Flaming Fist routing me at every turn, especially at early levels when they're hasted and I haven't even encountered the damned spell scroll. So in the end, I had to play it, at the best, in more or less the same way as a Neutral Character. I ended up going out of my way to "help people", just to get those government agents off my back. It was... unsatisfying to say the least.
So I'm looking to start my latest playthrough as a pure Chaotic Evil character, someone who can realise the aspirations I set out for my original Evil character. I'm simply looking for ways to circumvent the Flaming Fist; are there any mods out there specifically for this? Is there any way I can use Shadowkeeper to do something, perhaps to nerf the Flaming Fist enforcers by some measure? Can I alter the reputation at which Flaming Fist dogs jump me? Any console commands that would be helpful?
I strongly believe that Baldur's Gate has the narrative depth to pursue this kind of rewarding role-playing experience. I simple have a small problem with its gameplay mechanics. Any help is appreciated
In case of "tl;dr": I hate the Flaming Fist. How do I get rid of them?
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Comments
On a side note, if you're going to play a chaotic evil character I'd recommend getting the low reputation gives a discount tweak from the tweak pack. Instead of storekeeps who are universally near paragons of virtues, you have ones that look at a heavily armed party famed for slaughter of countless innocents (several of which included purveyors of goods who weren't too keen on purveying to aforementioned criminals), and decide that a sale might be best in the interest of their continued longevity.
If I was a chaotic evil character (I haven't tried it yet), I'd just deal with the Flaming Fist as any other bandit scum or roll a chaotic evil character with a lot of intelligence (such as a mage) and temper some of the super dumb random acts of violence with the foresight of their consequences (of course, I'd still do a lot of random killing and kill just about anyone who talks shit...though killing Hull would make things difficult from the get go).
I'd just bribe the churches a lot
Now that's a reason, why I never play CE, but like to play Lawful Evil. Pragmatic, methodical evil with a (some sort of) moral code, who does not think twice on hurting someone. Especially when they've wronged him.
Killing Flaming Fist guards? That's what being evil means to you? That's not evil. Any berserker can do that with half the brain size than me or you mate.
Let me tell you how to play evil.
Does the concept of "Villain with good publicity" ring a bell? Look at your half-brother, Sarevok. Cold, manipulative, ruthless, plotting to be the new God of Murder...but after all - almost successful. Did Baldur's Gate think, he was evil? NO! Was he? Hell yes!
When you play evil, you want the power. You want the Bhaal essence to fuel your ascend to godhood. You want to sow chaos along your path, because power breeds power. You want to be the calculating mastermind working on plans behind what their simple minds can't grasp.
They want you to do something for them? No problem. We know ... the path to victory is not easy mate. We can run their tiresome petty errands, but they better pay up. Doing things for free? Who do they think we are? Fools?
The don't want to pay us enough? No problem. We will take, what is ours. Either from their pockets, or from their cold hands. Between you and me mate, they can spew their tales about your bravery. It will only do you good to get the simpletons to trust you. When they trust you, they turn their backs to you easily. The brave knight who just got my precious, precious ring and got a few coppers for it won't rob me blind, would he?
Let them think, they have fooled you. Let them think they got upper hand on you and tricked you into doing their dirty work for them. And then, when they feel secure...walking away with a smug smile... let them feel your wrath. Stab your blade into their unsuspecting backs. Silently whisper in their ears as they drop to the ground. Let them squirm and slowly die of poison, knowing their last fault was to cross you. Let them walk into your trap or meet your lackey elemental just behind the corner.
That annoying druid, trying to patronize you? Let her think, she is in the lead. Wait. A smart man plans, only fools act. And when your time comes and she will find herself trapped in a cell, down below the Cloakwood... listening to the sound of water. Knowing that you put her there. Knowing she is going to die.
Distill your rage and your wrath into careful small drops. Kill those that deserve it and let the others live.
For now. Because, you and me mate, we both know they are going to die...
TL;DR - just read it if you want to play evil even though the game is designed for foolish do-gooders.
[and as you can guess, my best playtrough was with a LE Assasin. Kept my reputation in mid-range, but robbed cheapskates blind, killed fools who tried to scam me and kept the body count quite high with small, but intense acts of mayhem and violence.]
What I am saying is that they are posting that right out of the gate at level 1-3, the Flaming fist are going to harass them for basically killing everyone and everything that has something they want. Um..... Yeah. That will happen. And it should happen. Being petty and selfish will draw consequences. If you can't deal with them, then you don't act that way.
I find that their comment about being a Darwinist is quite appropriate. It is Quite the Darwinist that will quickly realize that raping and pillaging when you aren't more powerful than the local guards ISN'T a good idea. Wait till you are powerful enough to pulverize the competition, THEN do all of that.
I mean, play the game as you see fit, but understand that you aren't asking to 'Fix' an inequity. You are asking to break a logical game mechanic. Which is fine. And I am not saying that the way 'Evil' is implemented in the game isn't deeply and significantly flawed, just saying that wanting those who are there to stop bandits to not harass someone who is acting very much like a bandit seems counter-intuitive. All in my opinion only.
Let me explain. Add randomness. A coin can do this. A gold crown, surely based on what is locally referred to as a nugget round my parts, the humble 1 pound sterling.
On meeting the poor peasantry, the political pion, or distressed damsel, take your coin.
Toss it. Catch it. Slap it onto the back of the wrist.
If it shows the tails of the lion, rip into them with tooth and claw. Savor the blood and the screams as you would a fine wine and venison.
If it shows Queen Bess, let them live, hear them out, knowing their feeble lives are yours if THE COIN decides it... If the coin, wishes it.
Keep the coin. Caress the coin. Love the coin. It is shiny. Look at the coin.
The coin sparkles because it loves you. The coin commands you. The coin will look after you, If you look after it.
The coin is a jealous coin. It refuses to share it's purse with others. Leave other coins at temples, so the coin can enjoy it's isolated splendor... A heavy purse would only drag you down. An unneeded burden. Thoughts are a burden. Let the coin help. Let it take the strain. Let it decide.
Why risk making your own foolish decisions? Why gamble?
And if the coin lands on it's edge...
The coin gives you permission to roll with it...
Sod that fates crap.
See, I had some fun being "Smart Evil" with my Neutral Evil character (pretty much the Villain With Good publicity, being cautious and calculating, but never truly compassionate), but not as much fun as I thought I could have. Would I say my NE character was evil? Definitely. But no one would have posited that the was a Bhaalspawn monster (zero empathy, low intelligence, more creature than man). Which was the point of this newest playthrough: to have a fresh evil experience, with less attention to rep management.
I contemplated using Near Infinity to nerf the Flaming Fist but it felt... wrong, and takes away from the role-playing experience. Echoing "The_Spyder"'s sentiment, I figured that in the early levels, yeah, it'd be pretty foolish of CHARNAME to slaughter and pillage any community I come across, because the Flaming Fist is pretty much going to outright put me down. If I wanted to be a Darwinist, I'd have to be strong enough to do so. I'd have to survive first. This is where early-level rep management comes in.
Right now, I'm in the Level 5-6 Range where I can match most Flaming Fist encounters (using some tactics mentioned here), and I can safely allow Rep points to fall below 4 or 5. Recently killed the FF mercenary (the one looking for Samuel the deserter) who wanted to "teach me a lesson", and it was IMMENSELY satisfying. This is pretty much an example of the kind of fun I was hoping to have as a CE character. My "Smart Evil" char would never have done this, considering the rep point hit it would have cost.
I also implemented the discount tweak for evil characters, as per the advice above, seeing as it makes a lot of role-playing sense. Merchants must be out of their minds to up prices by 1000% to the villain who brutalised the town guard outside his window.
If you go around killing innocent people or stealing then I think the Flaming Fist should start attacking you regardless of your reputation.
On the other hand, if you get a bad reputation simply by travelling with Viconia/Dorn and generally not helping people then you haven't comitted any crimes and so shouldn't get attacked.
Unfortunately it's not an aspect of the game that can be easily fixed. It would be a lot of work to put in a proper system of legal accountability for various actions. That's why BG takes an approximate shortcut by just using reputation.