is there an easy way to duel wield/bow

ChildofBhaal599

One thing that continues to annoy me is that i want to duel wield, but it makes using a bow also require going into the inventory and removing the second weapon. I am surprised that it wasn't made easier with enhanced edition, so maybe it is impossible, though I hear you could do this in icewind dale. Anyway, is there anything I don't know of that could make this easier, like hotkeys to remove the second weapon and equip bow? And please overhaul, if it can be done, include it in the next update.

Jalily

Nope, and as a consequence this is one of the most commonly requested features for the enhanced edition.

ChildofBhaal599

lol i had hoped there was some secret i guess what i will do is duel wield but if i get a bow out at some other time, i could still easily switch to a single weapon. but then i would need proficiencies in single and two weapon. i guess i have to continue to deal with it. have beamdog/overhaul been looking into the issue at least to include in an update? i know that it is something many of us are looking for.

Mokona

Still have no idea why they didn't copy Icewind Dale 2's solution of having multiple weapon configuration buttons so you can have a fighter equip all their gear instead of pausing and swapping it out in the inventory like a freakin' animal.

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ChildofBhaal599

subtledoctor said:

Or, a player could just make up his/her mind on what they want the character to wield, and deal with it. Switching out equipment like in IWD2 is super cheesy, IMHO.

It is a lot more fun to have more choices to fit the situation, and it isn't really cheesy. It is logical that I could have two swords at my side and a bow on my back and switch.

TJ_Hooker

subtledoctor said:

Or, a player could just make up his/her mind on what they want the character to wield, and deal with it. Switching out equipment like in IWD2 is super cheesy, IMHO.

With the way BG:EE currently works regarding auto-pausing in the inventory screen, adding weapon combination quickslots à la IWD2 would do nothing other than remove a needless inconvenience to the player.

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atcDave

I've always focused my characters on one or the other; missile or melee. Even in PNP. So I never found it THAT bothersome of a limitation. But there are a few such things in the engine, like spears are coded as two handed weapons, historically spear and shield is a VERY common style (possibly, THE most common style). And I'd love to see an option for javelin (or pylum) and shield where you could throw the javelin then automatically switch to melee weapon (what can I say, I'm really big on Roman infantry tactics). Actually, the way the engine currently treats running out of missiles comes very close to approximating that.
But these are all tweaks that will likely never get changed. Really, that's fine. Every engine will have its limitations and omissions.

secretmantra

@atcDave

I would also LOVE to see a spear-and-shield / javelin-and-shield functionality be made possible. It would enhance the functionality of spears, which I currently never use. And it would not be imbalancing, given that spears are already gimped damage-wise compared to other options.

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Calmar

subtledoctor said:

Or, a player could just make up his/her mind on what they want the character to wield, and deal with it. Switching out equipment like in IWD2 is super cheesy, IMHO.

Every character in every BG or IWD game is able to switch weapons at any time without any difficulty. It's just that in Icewind Dale II it isn't such a pain in the butt for the player.

the_spyder

::::thinks to self::::::

Dual wielding a bow? Um????

:::Wonders how you would hold two bows AND pull the strings on them?:::::

(it's a joke)

Eudaemonium

the_spyder said:

::::thinks to self::::::

Dual wielding a bow? Um????

:::Wonders how you would hold two bows AND pull the strings on them?:::::

(it's a joke)

With your toes and a liberal application of yoga.

the_spyder

@Eudaemonium - I was going to go a different direction, but OK. LOL

HeroicSpur

The reason why I don't see the feature requested by the OP as 'cheese', is that the game already allows you to do it, as @Calmar says.

Suppose I have a bow equipped, and want to switch to sword and shield. I can pause the game, take the bow down, and put the sword and shield up, with no loss or detriment. The feature request is simply that this cumbersome process, which can be achieved in several steps, be achievable in one.

And herein lies the flaw with the argument @subtledoctor advances. While I agree entirely that you SHOULDN'T be able to switch on the fly, in combat, at least without some kind of penalty, the fact is the game rules/engine already say that you CAN.

If the game already lets the player do something, then they should be able to do it with minimal fuss/inconvenience. Otherwise, if it's not intended, they should not allow the player to do it at all.

The fact is, that is clearly something that is intended to be permissible for the player (regardless of the gameplay effects on the viability of certain weapon styles). It can be seen most clearly when trying to change armour mid-battle, the game will not allow it. If that was possible, the game could well have prohibited equipping ranged weapons in combat - but it doesn't.

DreadKhan

the_spyder said:

@Eudaemonium - I was going to go a different direction, but OK. LOL

NSFW?

DreadKhan

HeroicSpur said:

The reason why I don't see the feature requested by the OP as 'cheese', is that the game already allows you to do it, as @Calmar says.

Suppose I have a bow equipped, and want to switch to sword and shield. I can pause the game, take the bow down, and put the sword and shield up, with no loss or detriment. The feature request is simply that this cumbersome process, which can be achieved in several steps, be achievable in one.

And herein lies the flaw with the argument @subtledoctor advances. While I agree entirely that you SHOULDN'T be able to switch on the fly, in combat, at least without some kind of penalty, the fact is the game rules/engine already say that you CAN.

If the game already lets the player do something, then they should be able to do it with minimal fuss/inconvenience. Otherwise, if it's not intended, they should not allow the player to do it at all.

The fact is, that is clearly something that is intended to be permissible for the player (regardless of the gameplay effects on the viability of certain weapon styles). It can be seen most clearly when trying to change armour mid-battle, the game will not allow it. If that was possible, the game could well have prohibited equipping ranged weapons in combat - but it doesn't.

In vanilla the game unpaused when you went to invetory... bg2 dropped this to make the game easier.

atcDave

DreadKhan said:

HeroicSpur said:

The reason why I don't see the feature requested by the OP as 'cheese', is that the game already allows you to do it, as @Calmar says.

Suppose I have a bow equipped, and want to switch to sword and shield. I can pause the game, take the bow down, and put the sword and shield up, with no loss or detriment. The feature request is simply that this cumbersome process, which can be achieved in several steps, be achievable in one.

And herein lies the flaw with the argument @subtledoctor advances. While I agree entirely that you SHOULDN'T be able to switch on the fly, in combat, at least without some kind of penalty, the fact is the game rules/engine already say that you CAN.

If the game already lets the player do something, then they should be able to do it with minimal fuss/inconvenience. Otherwise, if it's not intended, they should not allow the player to do it at all.

The fact is, that is clearly something that is intended to be permissible for the player (regardless of the gameplay effects on the viability of certain weapon styles). It can be seen most clearly when trying to change armour mid-battle, the game will not allow it. If that was possible, the game could well have prohibited equipping ranged weapons in combat - but it doesn't.

In vanilla the game unpaused when you went to invetory... bg2 dropped this to make the game easier.

Actually I think the origins are PNP. A melee round is supposed to be one full minute. I think Infinity Engine initially changed this for game play reasons, watching our animated characters thrust and parry with only one or two chances of maybe scoring a hit for a full minute would be tedious even for us PNP diehards! So in PNP, routine things like changing weapons should be no difficulty in a melee round. But swapping armor should not be possible. These distinctions are fairly easy for a DM to manage. BG addressed this by unpausing in inventory. But I think BGII reversed that decision because it was too difficult to change weapon combos or find a potion or scroll. Unless they added a special provision for armor, it will have to be one way or the other. And I like the current method, I would rarely swap around armor on battle anyway (although there's an obvious exploit for multi/dual class mages! It leaves it up to us to role play it well), but other changes are doable whenever I'm energetic enough to open inventory.

Eudaemonium

Can you actually swap armour in battle in BG? I thought it was impossible, unlike say, weapons.

the_spyder

@DreadKhan - A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man.

@atcDave - I agree with your assessment, though to be fair; in PnP the round is 'Supposed' to be 1 minute. In reality it lasts as long as it takes all of the players to roll dice (including the DM for monsters of course).

At the end of the day, I 'think' that the reason it was never 'Fixed' in BG was because the intent is to be tactical. I imagine that the developers figure that the level of inconvenience (which does exist) is on the small side of things since you are likely to be pausing a lot in games anyway. Not to say it shouldn't be fixed, just that it is pretty low on the 'needs' list.

atcDave

Yeah Eudaemonium it's pretty funny, with the BGII engine you can change armor as many times as you want in a single round!

Spyder I remember single PNP rounds going over an hour with a lot of players and enemies in a high level game. Even worse in a long running game, each player may have multiple characters. I remember one such, we had all started with two PCs (only three players when the game started, so the DM felt we needed more characters), and after several years I had three henchmen, one spouse, and two adult children in my "party" alone; one night we had eight players, and went up against a small army. Tons of fun, but we were playing until seven AM. Ahhhh, the joys of a misspent youth...

AHF

Eudaemonium said:

Can you actually swap armour in battle in BG? I thought it was impossible, unlike say, weapons.

You cannot swap armor so your memory is correct.

atcDave

AHF said:

Eudaemonium said:

Can you actually swap armour in battle in BG? I thought it was impossible, unlike say, weapons.

You cannot swap armor so your memory is correct.

My bad, you're right. I'm not sure what I was thinking of.

AHF

Everything else can be swapped. Maybe you were thinking of cloaks, belts, shields, and other protective gear.

the_spyder

@atcDave - I remember those days as well. Many a weekend we would have marathon gaming nights where we were up till dawn. And many were the times we would have complicated or convoluted turns such that they took a really long time to resolve.

Now the computer resolves things for you. In some ways that is better. In others it is worse. Ah, well. Life (and gaming) goes on.

TJ_Hooker

In vanilla BG1 it is definitely possible to swap armour during combat.

DreadKhan

atcDave said:

DreadKhan said:

HeroicSpur said:

The reason why I don't see the feature requested by the OP as 'cheese', is that the game already allows you to do it, as @Calmar says.

Suppose I have a bow equipped, and want to switch to sword and shield. I can pause the game, take the bow down, and put the sword and shield up, with no loss or detriment. The feature request is simply that this cumbersome process, which can be achieved in several steps, be achievable in one.

And herein lies the flaw with the argument @subtledoctor advances. While I agree entirely that you SHOULDN'T be able to switch on the fly, in combat, at least without some kind of penalty, the fact is the game rules/engine already say that you CAN.

If the game already lets the player do something, then they should be able to do it with minimal fuss/inconvenience. Otherwise, if it's not intended, they should not allow the player to do it at all.

The fact is, that is clearly something that is intended to be permissible for the player (regardless of the gameplay effects on the viability of certain weapon styles). It can be seen most clearly when trying to change armour mid-battle, the game will not allow it. If that was possible, the game could well have prohibited equipping ranged weapons in combat - but it doesn't.

In vanilla the game unpaused when you went to invetory... bg2 dropped this to make the game easier.

Actually I think the origins are PNP. A melee round is supposed to be one full minute. I think Infinity Engine initially changed this for game play reasons, watching our animated characters thrust and parry with only one or two chances of maybe scoring a hit for a full minute would be tedious even for us PNP diehards! So in PNP, routine things like changing weapons should be no difficulty in a melee round. But swapping armor should not be possible. These distinctions are fairly easy for a DM to manage. BG addressed this by unpausing in inventory. But I think BGII reversed that decision because it was too difficult to change weapon combos or find a potion or scroll. Unless they added a special provision for armor, it will have to be one way or the other. And I like the current method, I would rarely swap around armor on battle anyway (although there's an obvious exploit for multi/dual class mages! It leaves it up to us to role play it well), but other changes are doable whenever I'm energetic enough to open inventory.

You are correct that BG shortened what a round means, but even in proper 2nd ed you couldnt switch weapons, armour, shields willy nilly, but in non-vanilla it lets you backstab with shadow armour and switch to ankheg to melee for a f/t, and I dont like that. Changing armour is laborious, though quickslot weapons i will endure.

I mean seriously, dave, in 2nd you would change into fullplate in front of an opponent???

Edit: erm, i guess my issues were delt with.

atcDave

DreadKhan said:

atcDave said:

DreadKhan said:

HeroicSpur said:

The reason why I don't see the feature requested by the OP as 'cheese', is that the game already allows you to do it, as @Calmar says.

Suppose I have a bow equipped, and want to switch to sword and shield. I can pause the game, take the bow down, and put the sword and shield up, with no loss or detriment. The feature request is simply that this cumbersome process, which can be achieved in several steps, be achievable in one.

And herein lies the flaw with the argument @subtledoctor advances. While I agree entirely that you SHOULDN'T be able to switch on the fly, in combat, at least without some kind of penalty, the fact is the game rules/engine already say that you CAN.

If the game already lets the player do something, then they should be able to do it with minimal fuss/inconvenience. Otherwise, if it's not intended, they should not allow the player to do it at all.

The fact is, that is clearly something that is intended to be permissible for the player (regardless of the gameplay effects on the viability of certain weapon styles). It can be seen most clearly when trying to change armour mid-battle, the game will not allow it. If that was possible, the game could well have prohibited equipping ranged weapons in combat - but it doesn't.

In vanilla the game unpaused when you went to invetory... bg2 dropped this to make the game easier.

Actually I think the origins are PNP. A melee round is supposed to be one full minute. I think Infinity Engine initially changed this for game play reasons, watching our animated characters thrust and parry with only one or two chances of maybe scoring a hit for a full minute would be tedious even for us PNP diehards! So in PNP, routine things like changing weapons should be no difficulty in a melee round. But swapping armor should not be possible. These distinctions are fairly easy for a DM to manage. BG addressed this by unpausing in inventory. But I think BGII reversed that decision because it was too difficult to change weapon combos or find a potion or scroll. Unless they added a special provision for armor, it will have to be one way or the other. And I like the current method, I would rarely swap around armor on battle anyway (although there's an obvious exploit for multi/dual class mages! It leaves it up to us to role play it well), but other changes are doable whenever I'm energetic enough to open inventory.

You are correct that BG shortened what a round means, but even in proper 2nd ed you couldnt switch weapons, armour, shields willy nilly, but in non-vanilla it lets you backstab with shadow armour and switch to ankheg to melee for a f/t, and I dont like that. Changing armour is laborious, though quickslot weapons i will endure.

I mean seriously, dave, in 2nd you would change into fullplate in front of an opponent???

Edit: erm, i guess my issues were delt with.

I think you misunderstood me! In PNP its the DM who enforces such things, so no, unless your DM is a total moron you wouldn't change armor in a melee round. But changing weapons? Sure, why not. Use your bow until the enemies close, then switch to sword and shield, no problem. A switch might be disallowed if you did something dumb, but every DM I've played with allows routine swaps of gear in your possession, normally (an overbearing opponent or being partially immobilized might be exceptions).
I think it was vanilla BG that allowed swaps of armor during a melee if you were quick on the mouse. THAT's what I was saying was an obvious exploit. I know I've seen games that do allow it; but it is TERRIBLE role playing to change armor in battle, even if a game system allows it.

Erg

Eudaemonium said:

the_spyder said:

::::thinks to self::::::

Dual wielding a bow? Um????

:::Wonders how you would hold two bows AND pull the strings on them?:::::

(it's a joke)

With your toes and a liberal application of yoga.

Bercon

Being able to switch weapons in combat is clearly intended. Otherwise, why you have multiple primary weapon slots on the bottom bar in the first place? Not being able to switch two handed weapon with two single handed weapons is simply limitation of the engine. One that was actually already fixed in IWD2. I don't understand why there is a need for further discussion on this topic.