@ajwz. I still don't follow what you wrote here, but I'd really like to know what you mean because I think you have very much experience with the game. I think your saying at a level above 17 the game is Shit. Yet, you labeled lvls 6 and 12 the God Tier and lvls 2 3 5 10 11 the High Tier etc... It's fascinating, and I'd really love for you to expand on it. Please help me out.
17+ Is boring because you are too powerful for anything to be a challenge
15 and 16 you are approaching being too powerful and they are usually levels that a sped through anyway with the experience distribution being what it is. Level 9 is a stop gap since this is the level you normally are after Irenicus' dungeon, when you are woefully underequipped for your level and don't have many of your intended party members.
levels 13 and 14 the game is still challenging but you usually have enough in your arsenal to breeze by al but the hardest content. 7 and 8 are when you reach the end of Bg1, where your spell books only contain a few relevent spells at level, and you are often fighting content you have missed out of order, so the content often does not match your level. 4 is usually a stop gap level where you don't experience a huge leap in power over 3 and you are waiting on level 5. It's the first level where experience gain starts slowing down notably, but unless you look specifically for good xp spots, the xp gain from monsters and quests is still quite slow level 1 is quite fun, but often too random to really enjoy the fights, since a lot of enemies will 1shot you.
Levels 2 and 3 ar what level 1 should feel like. You still feel like every fight is a life or death challenge, but the element of randomness is taken a way and a skilled player should do well here Level 5 is normally the time you access 3rd level spells for the first time, which gives a very satisfying feeling of progression and your characters becoming stronger. Also the first level you'd think about tackling difficult content. Levels 10 and 11 are the levels where that game feels very balanced in bg2. You usually have a wide choice of content at this time, and you can also think about dual classing at these levels. Also when your class/kit features usually kick in in a serious manner.
Level 6 is the perfect level to tackle morederately difficult of difficult challenges in bg1. You should have 3rd level spells but no higher - however by this time you will be able to cast more than 1 or 2 of them a day, bringing spell duels with enemy mages into play. You should have unlocked baldurs gate city by now and thus have access to pretty much every area in the game. Level 12 is the perfect balanced level in bg2 which actually makes you feel powerful without being over the top. It's the level where mages and fighter type classes are typically on a par with each other in terms of usefulness. You should be able to pick and choose any content pre spellhold at this level, and you can even take on difficult challenges like dragons and liches to test yourself.
low levels are a bit lame simply because your party has little to no spells/abilities to use and rolls make up for too much of the combat,crits are devastating,if you miss the next attack is not going to come any time soon etc
@ajwz. I bow to the depth of your analysis and font of experience. Well.. well.. well done, and thank you. Your post is one that I will be sure to save and study often.
I'm now reacquainting myself with BG2 again after about a 5 year hiatus, and I have to say that it's kind of off-putting to me to go through Irenicus dungeon and find magic items to be almost raining from the sky. For me it tends to cheapen the aura of wonder to magic....
My thoughts exactly. I really wish they would consider altering the availability of generic magic items at least...
This could certainly be done in a mod. I would love that. It would also be consistent with canon for Amn in that period!
Canon:
There is a black market for magic items, but it is actually kind of dangerous socially to be outed as owning such things. And that is because tthe practice of arcane magic is actually reviled in Amn, according to the setting source book Lands of Intrigue.
That said, the government is also very corrupt, and officials can be bribed (though there is always a risk of the offer of a bribe resulting in arrest and incarceration). I.e., if one is discovered by the authorities to be in possession of an arcanely enchanted item. One might be able to pay a bribe in order to have it simply confiscated and avoid going to jail.
Mages do exist in Amn. But they are all underground. They are usually either members of evil organizations, or belong to the Cowled Wizards. In canon the Cowled Wizards is a secret society devoted to the preservation of the study and use of arcane magic, and which seeks to eventually legitimize its use in Amn again one day. Some Cowls have high positions in government. There's even one or two on the Council of Six. But it's a very, very secret society.
But anyway, only a fool would practice arcane magic openly in Amn according to canon. Anyone who does will either be incarcerated or banished from the nation. If the area is rural farmland dotted with villages,* the local authorities would likely administer their own justice, by capturing, and very possibly executing, the identified wizard.
In canon Amn is a highly civilized land of enormously wealthy merchants, not an untamed wilderness with lots of adventurers traipsing around in seek of treasure and excitement (a la the Sword Coast). Adventurers in Amn that are level 3+ must actually register with the government. It isn't spelled out beyond that (i.e., up to the DM to get creative with), but presumably they would have to regularly pay some sort of licensing fee. And the government would likely call on the party from time to time to perform services related to various intrigues. If the registered adventuring party isn't of use in some way, they would eventually be expelled from the nation. There is also a lot of intrigue between rival merchant families (very similar to the real life mafia, or Italy's medieval mercantile families, actually), that the DM would typically get the party embroiled in.
* Amn is the bread basket of Faerun, mostly deforested and quilted with rolling farms, orchards, and vineyards. It does have two mountain ranges for wilderness, though; including the foothills of the Small Teeth mountains, known as the Umar Hills, which are partly cultivated but also sees some roaming monsters sometimes venturing down from the mountains.
I know I'm in the minority here. I like reaching level 17 and being able to cast 9th level spells...most importantly, Time Stop! Everything just goes black and white...awesome! Irenicus, here I come! Oh wait, Time Stop won't work against you. Meh, it's still awesome nonetheless.;p
@ajwz said in her post where she deeply analyzed each level...
"Levels 2 and 3 are what level 1 should feel like. You still feel like every fight is a life or death challenge, but the element of randomness is taken a way and a skilled player should do well here."
I remember having a RPG some years ago, I think it was "Runequest", where the rules indicated that the starting HP = Constitution. Interesting idea, the start of the game felt more like playing at lvl 2 in D&D. But, overall I still love BG, and level 1 is still fun where for awhile the degree of Chance seems more important than skill. Then at level 2 you start to feel more of a balance between your abilities, your play and chance. A little bit more like real life.
I agree, there should be a mod like that. ! But, the development team probably decided to make things easier on players, for obvious reasons. I always get this very "unfriendly" feeling in Amn.
Comments
15 and 16 you are approaching being too powerful and they are usually levels that a sped through anyway with the experience distribution being what it is.
Level 9 is a stop gap since this is the level you normally are after Irenicus' dungeon, when you are woefully underequipped for your level and don't have many of your intended party members.
levels 13 and 14 the game is still challenging but you usually have enough in your arsenal to breeze by al but the hardest content.
7 and 8 are when you reach the end of Bg1, where your spell books only contain a few relevent spells at level, and you are often fighting content you have missed out of order, so the content often does not match your level.
4 is usually a stop gap level where you don't experience a huge leap in power over 3 and you are waiting on level 5. It's the first level where experience gain starts slowing down notably, but unless you look specifically for good xp spots, the xp gain from monsters and quests is still quite slow
level 1 is quite fun, but often too random to really enjoy the fights, since a lot of enemies will 1shot you.
Levels 2 and 3 ar what level 1 should feel like. You still feel like every fight is a life or death challenge, but the element of randomness is taken a way and a skilled player should do well here
Level 5 is normally the time you access 3rd level spells for the first time, which gives a very satisfying feeling of progression and your characters becoming stronger. Also the first level you'd think about tackling difficult content.
Levels 10 and 11 are the levels where that game feels very balanced in bg2. You usually have a wide choice of content at this time, and you can also think about dual classing at these levels. Also when your class/kit features usually kick in in a serious manner.
Level 6 is the perfect level to tackle morederately difficult of difficult challenges in bg1. You should have 3rd level spells but no higher - however by this time you will be able to cast more than 1 or 2 of them a day, bringing spell duels with enemy mages into play. You should have unlocked baldurs gate city by now and thus have access to pretty much every area in the game.
Level 12 is the perfect balanced level in bg2 which actually makes you feel powerful without being over the top. It's the level where mages and fighter type classes are typically on a par with each other in terms of usefulness. You should be able to pick and choose any content pre spellhold at this level, and you can even take on difficult challenges like dragons and liches to test yourself.
That's the reasoning behind my thinking anyway.
definately over 12 is my answer
Canon:
There is a black market for magic items, but it is actually kind of dangerous socially to be outed as owning such things. And that is because tthe practice of arcane magic is actually reviled in Amn, according to the setting source book Lands of Intrigue.
That said, the government is also very corrupt, and officials can be bribed (though there is always a risk of the offer of a bribe resulting in arrest and incarceration). I.e., if one is discovered by the authorities to be in possession of an arcanely enchanted item. One might be able to pay a bribe in order to have it simply confiscated and avoid going to jail.
Mages do exist in Amn. But they are all underground. They are usually either members of evil organizations, or belong to the Cowled Wizards. In canon the Cowled Wizards is a secret society devoted to the preservation of the study and use of arcane magic, and which seeks to eventually legitimize its use in Amn again one day. Some Cowls have high positions in government. There's even one or two on the Council of Six. But it's a very, very secret society.
But anyway, only a fool would practice arcane magic openly in Amn according to canon. Anyone who does will either be incarcerated or banished from the nation. If the area is rural farmland dotted with villages,* the local authorities would likely administer their own justice, by capturing, and very possibly executing, the identified wizard.
In canon Amn is a highly civilized land of enormously wealthy merchants, not an untamed wilderness with lots of adventurers traipsing around in seek of treasure and excitement (a la the Sword Coast). Adventurers in Amn that are level 3+ must actually register with the government. It isn't spelled out beyond that (i.e., up to the DM to get creative with), but presumably they would have to regularly pay some sort of licensing fee. And the government would likely call on the party from time to time to perform services related to various intrigues. If the registered adventuring party isn't of use in some way, they would eventually be expelled from the nation. There is also a lot of intrigue between rival merchant families (very similar to the real life mafia, or Italy's medieval mercantile families, actually), that the DM would typically get the party embroiled in.
* Amn is the bread basket of Faerun, mostly deforested and quilted with rolling farms, orchards, and vineyards. It does have two mountain ranges for wilderness, though; including the foothills of the Small Teeth mountains, known as the Umar Hills, which are partly cultivated but also sees some roaming monsters sometimes venturing down from the mountains.
"Levels 2 and 3 are what level 1 should feel like. You still feel like every fight is a life or death challenge, but the element of randomness is taken a way and a skilled player should do well here."
I remember having a RPG some years ago, I think it was "Runequest", where the rules indicated that the starting HP = Constitution. Interesting idea, the start of the game felt more like playing at lvl 2 in D&D. But, overall I still love BG, and level 1 is still fun where for awhile the degree of Chance seems more important than skill. Then at level 2 you start to feel more of a balance between your abilities, your play and chance. A little bit more like real life.