Right or left?
Aristillius
Member Posts: 873
Okay, since I am very interested in politics I am curious about which side Baldur's Gate people associate with on the political spectrum.
Inherent in the question is that "Right" and "Left" are two very broad entities, so your overall affiliation is what you answer here. So Americans who sometimes vote both Democrat and Republican, just have to make a choice about where your preferaces lie overall. (And I like simple polls).
And yes, there's not "third way" or "I do not know" option. So if you think I am creating a artifical divide, tell me why. Also, IMHO people have an obligation to get some sort of idea where they stand if you live in a democratic society. And if you do not, maybe you have an idea anayway
Answers are anonymous, so people do not have to be associated with anarchists or laissez faire liberalists if the discussion goes that way.
EDIT: Forgot to add that it would be very interesting if you would say something about why you think what you think
Inherent in the question is that "Right" and "Left" are two very broad entities, so your overall affiliation is what you answer here. So Americans who sometimes vote both Democrat and Republican, just have to make a choice about where your preferaces lie overall. (And I like simple polls).
And yes, there's not "third way" or "I do not know" option. So if you think I am creating a artifical divide, tell me why. Also, IMHO people have an obligation to get some sort of idea where they stand if you live in a democratic society. And if you do not, maybe you have an idea anayway
Answers are anonymous, so people do not have to be associated with anarchists or laissez faire liberalists if the discussion goes that way.
EDIT: Forgot to add that it would be very interesting if you would say something about why you think what you think
- Right or left?64 votes
- Right37.50%
- Left62.50%
1
Comments
On the Right, Lincoln supported civil rights before it was cool.
Conservative icon Reagan amnestied illegal immigrants and raised the deficit by cutting social programs but spending more than he cut on defense. So after making a big deal about how he cut taxes he then passed the largest peacetime tax increase in history along with tripling the national debt in his eight years in office. His policy of cutting taxes to give more money to the rich in order to trickle down to the poor didn't pan out but that didn't stop Mitt Romney from trying to run with the same platform.
Teddy Roosevelt was quite impressive. A man's man who supported progressive ideas of streamlining government. He ditched the Republican party in the end to form his own independent party when ideology started going away from streamlining government and doing things the "best" way.
Just kidding, if you dont think you can answer, dont answer
@smeagolheart Yeah, it is supposed to be a broad poll, would be impossible to go into different issues. Hence, "right" or "left" doesnt go into any except what you yourself think about it.
So, left obviously.
So while you can say that the current incarnation of the American Democrats represents the left and the American Republicans represents the right, things aren't so binary over here. Instead we have two and a half dominant political parties with a fair portion of independents.
Where the Liberal and National coalition political party represents the Center-Right with neo-liberalism values kinda like the American Republicans and the Labor party represents a Centrist position that traditionally had strong union values but today is a mix of business forces with the old union base, kinda like the American Democrats. Since the late 70s, we've also had a third party that often holds the deciding votes in the upper chamber. It started with a Center-Left party called the Australian Democrats but they died last decade making way for a Left party called the Australian Greens.
Since about 2007 until just recently the Greens sided with the Labor government to create a temporary Center-Left coalition to balance out the Center-Right Liberal and National coalition that had dominated the late 90s and early 00s. That era was extremely partisan but the Greens have since broken off again.
If we didn't have the Australian Greens to offset the dominance of the major political parties then we probably would end up mirroring the American government more closely. The Greens were originally an environmental movement founded in the 80s to protest the building of massive dam in a national park, but have since worked their work up to a strong political force. In Australia we are largely ambivalent to political deals unless it involves the environment and immigration. In the last election, we had a hung parliament where the votes where split down the middle, Labor ended up governing because they convinced the Greens and a number of rural independents to support them. The Green's influence encouraged Labor to put through a Carbon Tax and a Mining Resources Rent Tax that drove the right crazy. But the Greens have since distanced themselves from Labor after they decided to start up offshore processing of refugees to try and cater the more right leaning portion of their base. The Carbon Tax is our equivalent of Obamacare when it comes to the level of partisanship. The Greens want it to go further in taxing polluters while right wing politicians and media want it scrapped. As for the refugee crisis, it pales in comparison to the number of immigrants entering America through unofficial channels but there is pressure for the government to intercept the so called "boat people" and deport them or put them in detention centers to process them. Not to mention that we take well below the number of refugees than other western countries.
My personal approach to Australian politics is to impose the sustainability concept of the Triple Bottom Line. So the Liberals would be largely focused on Economy first, Labor would be Social first and the Greens would be Environmental first. I'm no fan of the Liberals, but I believe that all three major parties need to be viable for the political sustainability of our government. It's not perfect but it's the most simplistic way to see things other than in a binary fashion.
That's pretty much a brief description of our political environment. But there's many things that we don't have that shapes our understanding of left versus right. For example the American concept of State's Rights differs here, we have state governments that do create their own laws but they are subject to federal oversight. Generally we'll prefer to enforce a federal law over individual state laws. Just right now the government is trying to unify the nation's school system away from a state run system to a federal system, it's far from a done deal due to monetary issues but there's nowhere near the level of vitriol that Obamacare received. Speaking of socialized medicine, it's pretty much an accepted norm here, our free-market enthusiasts wouldn't dare to suggest the complete privatizing of such a system. They've tried to do things like strip workers of their bargaining rights and lost resoundingly at the polls for it.
Also if you ask the average Australian about our constitution, they wouldn't be able to recite a single phrase or line. We don't really have such things like the first, second, etc... amendments in our political discourse. We don't even have the right to free speech in any declaration of rights, except for a 1992 court ruling for the right to free political speech. Instead it's treated as an accepted norm. Not to mention that if you asked Australians about the American concept of liberty or the American libertarian movement, we wouldn't understand it. In the 90s when we banned the carrying and use of firearms everywhere outside of shooting ranges (shortly after a mass shooting), there wasn't really any strong outcry of liberty or any potent force like the NRA to stop it. We have a thing called the Shooters and Fishers Party but they are treated like a novelty, just like the Australian Sex Party and the Family First Party.
Another thing that may be shocking... Most Australians don't even know the name of our first political leader. You'd be extremely lucky to find someone who could name over 5 Australian political leaders. Our version of the Founding Fathers is just over a century old yet barely anyone cares or knows anything about them.
I voted left myself, I think @Son_of_Imoen summed up the reasoning behind this very well.
@franco I have always had great respect for liberalists and a vehement principal defence for personal freedom, but what I really disagree with is the liberalist conception of freedom. Because, freedom is only freedom when it does not limit the freedom of others.
Everybody loves low taxes because it allows you the freedom to use the money in ways you yourself think is best. However, if this also means that people with low-paying jobs are unable to get their children into good schools, or severly limit their health because of inferior health services, it clearly *limit* people's freedom to get a good job or live fulfilling lives.
Financial stats tell me that when people have more disposable income, they can spend more and they invest more and businesses can hire and create more jobs. The economy expands. When they have less income, they cut back, they hire fewer workers and they even have to cut staff for their business to survive. People then have fewer jobs.
Financial data has always shown that if you increase the Capital Gains Tax (which has to do with investments) you actually start to receive less government revenue and a more sluggish economy. This can't go very far to finance the good things you have posted above. The US corporate tax is already the highest in the world making it difficult for our economy now to compete with the rest of the world.
As a libertarian I do want the most good for the most people. The only way I can see that is to grow the economy, don't impede it, and to make more jobs available to more people.
"The problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples' money". That is the reason why European economies are now on the brink and the US with its ever increasing massive debt is racing to join them.
Let's hope we all get through these difficult times to the sunnier side of the hill.
I am not an expert on US economy, but maybe a way to help business is to lower corporate tax if it is so high and to tax big earners/estate higher instead?
Yey, big interesting post from @typo_tilly
Hell, I'd be a communist if I thought us humans could make it work.
It would be hard for anyone to make choice between facist and commies.