Sad Day for Rhinoceroses

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Son_of_Imoen

Real sad indeed. Leaves me silent...

ajwz

What do you expect - they are worth 975xp each, and their horns can be sold in china for 500gp or turned into rhino hide platemail

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reedmilfam

Samus said:

ajwz said:

What do you expect - they are worth 975xp each, and their horns can be sold in china for 500gp or turned into rhino hide platemail

Loss of life (particularly a critically endangered species) should not be material for jokes @ajwz

I disagree. Humor is a way that people diffuse tension. Regardless, the joke (or lack thereof) will not erase what is done.

CoM_Solaufein

The day will come when humans will be on that list. If I am around at that time, I won't shed a tear. We deserve whatever is coming to us for what we have done to ourselves and the planet.

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DJKajuru

Animals (of all species) will continuously be abused unless people stop spending money on it. That includes rhino horns, fur or leather , meat ... the government allows most of it because it makes money.

Coutelier

I find it doubly sad. Not just that creatures like these are hunted to extinction, but it's for something that's complete BS anyway; so called 'Chinese Medicine'.

Rhino horn is not an aphrodisiac or a cure for a cancer. Even if it was, do you know what it's made of? Hair. That's right; eat your own hair. I guarantee it'll work just as well.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

Samus said:

ajwz said:

What do you expect - they are worth 975xp each, and their horns can be sold in china for 500gp or turned into rhino hide platemail

Loss of life (particularly a critically endangered species) should not be material for jokes @ajwz

I agree with @Samus. Sometimes you just gotta take into account that a joke on a certain subject can be inappropriate.

O_Bruce

Hence I often like animals more than humans. You don't see them [animals] killing other species for goddamn profit. Only humans do that.

Chow

I think it was a fun joke, even if the news itself is sad.

I just wish people were more considerate about the nature and what surrounds them, because if we're not, it will eventually spell our own doom as well.

TJ_Hooker

ZelgadisGW said:

Hence I often like animals more than humans. You don't see them [animals] killing other species without a thought for goddamn profit.

So you're saying that when animals kill other animals, they're always sure to keep profit in mind?

O_Bruce

@TJ_Hooker
Now that I look at it, I made a terrible mistake, because the message of this post is too different from what I intented to say.

Basicaly, I have meant that animals are killing each others for survival, instead of profit or sport. In that area, animals are way better than humans.

Sorry for my parody of an english.

franco

ZelgadisGW said:

Hence I often like animals more than humans. You don't see them [animals] killing other species for goddamn profit. Only humans do that.

I don't see humans (especially in the west) killing each other for profit. Those who make profits need to have markets and so need to have many people alive and consuming. The human on human killing I see in the world is coming from hatred, envy or from fanatical beliefs.

But I do see humans still killing animals for profit. But hopefully that may be changing, albeit not soon enough.
I remember years ago that animals were just considered inferior creatures without reason, and so their lives were not considered worth anything. After living with some for awhile you get to realize that there is a real person with real love there, and the only reason they can't speak basic thoughts is because they don't have the vocal apparatus to do so. But their feelings and thoughts do get through to you.

DJKajuru

Some people will say that animals are meant to serve humans, that animals have no soul, that animals don't care ... a century ago society would say the same thing about their human slaves. Progress of mankind occurs when we learn to respect all living beings.

TJ_Hooker

ZelgadisGW said:

Basicaly, I have meant that animals are killing each others for survival, instead of profit or sport. In that area, animals are way better than humans.

Animals kill for other reasons than survival too. Dolphins sometimes kill baby porpoises for no apparent reason. A cat will kill rodents or small birds and then just play with them a while before losing interest. I don't know where people get the idea that humans are the only species capable of violence and cruelty.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@TJ_Hooker: I was just about to say that! Dolphins are actually bastards. They rape females of their species as they please, kill tortoises for fun and are actually quite violent. Orca's show the same violent behaviour, btw. Then there are lions who will kill a female lion's kids if they get into the way of him mating with her, or when the kids are getting into the way of their food. There's LOADS of cruelty between animals as well. The only difference is that human are often more conscious, more aware of their actions than animals are, because humans have a better developed intelligence.

O_Bruce

I don't know about dolphins, but cats are playing with they prey before eating it (at least my cat was about to do that). I don't quite get the evolutionary idea behind this behaviour, but I suppose young cats, by playing with their prey, are learning something about hunting. Lions, for example, often just wound a young antylope, so that their offspring can practice hunting on weak prey. But us, humans, can kill for no other reason than "just because", even thought killing on a whim is not a norm in majority of human societies.

That is not to say that animals aren't capable of cruelity. Cruelity between animals often happens in more intelligent species, such as prime monkeys, who are most similar to us. Saying all that, I still don't believe in animals killing for such pathetic reasons as "money", "sport", "nationality", "religion", "politics". That's all human's area.

smeagolheart

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

@TJ_Hooker: I was just about to say that! Dolphins are actually bastards. They rape females of their species as they please, kill tortoises for fun and are actually quite violent. Orca's show the same violent behaviour, btw. Then there are lions who will kill a female lion's kids if they get into the way of him mating with her, or when the kids are getting into the way of their food. There's LOADS of cruelty between animals as well. The only difference is that human are often more conscious, more aware of their actions than animals are, because humans have a better developed intelligence.

That's Nature. Animals don't have the capability to communicate as we humans do - verbally and written. We can write laws and feature a structured society giving people jobs to enforce the laws and protect children. And even then there are still people who rape females (india) or kill kids.

franco

ZelgadisGW said:

That is not to say that animals aren't capable of cruelity. Cruelity between animals often happens in more intelligent species, such as prime monkeys, who are most similar to us. Saying all that, I still don't believe in animals killing for such pathetic reasons as "money", "sport", "nationality", "religion", "politics". That's all human's area.

@ZelgadisGW. Although I think you've made some very interesting points and I agree with some of what you said, I don't think animals can even conceive of reasons such as "money", "sport", "nationality", "religion", "politics". So we are not likely to see them kill for such pathetic reasons anytime soon.

O_Bruce

Of course animals doesn't have that capabilities. That kind of imperfections are kind of beautiful, in it's own way.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@ZelgadisGW: Even old cats still play with their prey, though at such an age, you'd expect them to know enough about hunting. I once saw my cat chase a mouse, catch, then let it free and hop around a bit while she was quietly relaxing in the grass. As soon as the mouse would go too far, she'd jump at it and chase it again. She really looked like it was just a game for her. If she truly was 'learning', she would have been more focused and concentrated, which she absolutely wasn't. But then it is hard to correctly interpret the behaviour of animals, so yeah...Not completely sure. Still doesn't negate the points I made in my previous post, though. Also, 'money', 'politics' and so on are concepts which don't exist in the world of animals, so I don't exactly see how you can make a comparison on those grounds with animals. Analysing the behaviour of animals in itself is quite tough. Even up to today scientists are still quite unsure if the purring of a cat truly indicates 'happiness', or if it's just something we interpret as humans.

Coutelier

I think domestic cats aren't really 'tame' the same way dogs are. They still have their instinct to hunt and keep their hunting skills sharp... trouble is, when they do catch things, they're rarely hungry enough to just kill and eat it.

But yeah, a lot of violent behavior goes on in the animal world. Rape, infanticide and cannibalism are all quite common, even what might be described as 'wars' over territory between primate groups, wolf packs, prides, even any colonies. It's another aspect of New Age drivel that does my head in; the idea that everything natural is good and we should back to nature... er, no thanks.

DJKajuru

@Coutelier I agree that we humans have our own way of living , and we are indeed distant from nature. But the principle of empathy is important , the same way we don't want our children to go through pain, torture or unecessary death, we should wish the same for animals.

Starlily

Coutelier said:

I think domestic cats aren't really 'tame' the same way dogs are. They still have their instinct to hunt and keep their hunting skills sharp... trouble is, when they do catch things, they're rarely hungry enough to just kill and eat it.

You must not know many out doors cats. All of ours (outdoor ones) killed and ate most of their catch. They'd leave tail & gallbladder on the kitchen step where I'd step down to get the paper. Husband has found rabbit ears and bits of fur in the backyard from some escaped bunnies a few doors down. My mother-in-law had a cat bring in a jackrabbit and left the head and innerds in the shower. Big surprise. Some of my cats liked to share their catch. They'd come to the door and give a muffled meow to come in. Until I was alert to that, they'd come in set the poor wet mouse at my feet and watch to see if I ate it! Got miffed when I didn't when I threw it in the garbage can.

Coutelier

DJKajuru said:

@Coutelier I agree that we humans have our own way of living , and we are indeed distant from nature. But the principle of empathy is important , the same way we don't want our children to go through pain, torture or unecessary death, we should wish the same for animals.

Indeed. But on Earth at least, its only human beings who can develop morality like that. Of course, it's also only human beings who can invent new age medicine and have a totally made up reason to hunt a lot of endangered animals... but I do think it's our responsibility as intelligent beings to take care of our world and extend our empathy to animals, even if they're not capable of it themselves.

Starlily said:

Coutelier said:

I think domestic cats aren't really 'tame' the same way dogs are. They still have their instinct to hunt and keep their hunting skills sharp... trouble is, when they do catch things, they're rarely hungry enough to just kill and eat it.

You must not know many out doors cats. All of ours (outdoor ones) killed and ate most of their catch. They'd leave tail & gallbladder on the kitchen step where I'd step down to get the paper. Husband has found rabbit ears and bits of fur in the backyard from some escaped bunnies a few doors down. My mother-in-law had a cat bring in a jackrabbit and left the head and innerds in the shower. Big surprise. Some of my cats liked to share their catch. They'd come to the door and give a muffled meow to come in. Until I was alert to that, they'd come in set the poor wet mouse at my feet and watch to see if I ate it! Got miffed when I didn't when I threw it in the garbage can.

No, we don't get many rabbits roaming around here. The odd rodent, that tends to still be wriggling when the cat drags them inside. But I don't think that cat wanted you to eat the mouse... I think it wanted you to skin it, cook it, and serve it with wine and caviar.

O_Bruce

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud
I can make a comparison while using the fact that biologicaly, we are also animals, too. What differs us from the rest of this world is our greater mental copabilities and that's pretty much it. If you ask me, I'll say that we have evolved in uniqe way.

(Oh, by the way. I'm accepting now that cats are able to behave in uneccesary violent way.)

While those concepts you mentioned doesn't exist in "animals world", it still doesn't negate point of my last post: that those imperfections are beautiful in their own way. At least for me.

Other thing is, that humans still remains the most (self-)destructive beings on this planet. That is to say, we are capable of good and selfless behaviours, it's just that those becoming more rare, I think.

Chow

On the contrary, good and selfless behavior is far more common than it has ever been.

O_Bruce

It used to be rare in the past, then it became more common, and now it's decreasing again. It's up to person if he/she decides to see it or not.

Chow

I disagree: I think it's still becoming more common, and even the discussion we are having right now is a point to that. Rhinos have been poached for a long time, after all, but only now we are noticing.

We are, slowly but surely, getting better.