Why do thieves receive the "Use Any Item Skill" UAI

[Deleted User]

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The_Shairs_Handbook

ehum.... if I remember it right most epic stuff you get in epic lvl (lvl 20+) is taken from 3rd edition of dnd and has nothing to do with 2nd edition... some of the skill are even made up for the game purpose only ...

Aasimar069

Samus said:

Why do thieves receive the "Use Any Item Skill" UAI

Why not ?

Southpaw

I would say, that because thieves' mindset is that of a trickster. Thieves do not sling magic around, cannot use holy power to heal and are not as deft in combat as the warriors. They have to survive with...other means. Using traps, poisons, stealth and guise, where others use magic or brutal power.
They are the jacks-of-all trades and have to learn a lot from other bits just to make ends meet.

That's the reason they get the UseAnyItem HLA. Because they specialize less, but get wider variety of skills ... and items. 3rd edition and upwards rewarded thief with a lot more skill points than other classes. In BG1, they are the only ones to be able to pick locks and disarm traps. And backstab.
Bards are similar, just that they focus less on actual thievery and dabble more into magic.

...and besides. I would say, that it's to try to give them some more power to be able to keep up with Mages. (Who get 9-10th level spells and shit). Warriors get Whirlwinds, Thieves UAI and Spike trap.

franco

@Samus. I think this occurred because D&D originally only had four basic classes. The thief was often everything that wasn't warrior, mage or cleric. He often had a high intelligence and cunning, so things such as the keen understanding of the value and use of all sorts of items were originally associated with him. The Bard became a separate class later. Yet, she was partially derived from the roguish ways of the thief, but now carried more developed lore and wisdom and the ability to identify items.

I think you're right. It could be time to transfer the Use Any Item ability to the Bard. I think that the thief because of his other abilities is already essential to the game. However, I notice that there no longer seems to be an Intelligence level requirement for thieves when you roll up. How about retaining the UAI ability but only for thieves with INT above15 or 16. It makes some sense. I know a number of players sometimes enjoy running a thief solo, and taking away UAI altogether could really affect their experience.

smeagolheart

This is the description from the game: "Rogues take pride in their ability to adapt and make clever use of whatever is at hand. This ability is an extension of that basic skill. Once learned, the effect is permanent. The ability allows the rogue to use any item, even items that are typically restricted to one class. This allows the rogue to use everything from wands and scrolls to mighty weapons that none but a fighter could otherwise use."

As mentioned, thieves are adaptable.

[Deleted User]

It might be extrapolated from the "Use Magic Device" skill from 3.X, which thieves and bards were the main classes with access to. UMD allowed you, with a high enough skill check, to do things like activate items without the proper command word and to fake various prerequisites, such as race, class, alignment, etc. By epic levels, it was easy to have a skill modifier high enough to reliably use just about any item you fancied.

lunar

I agree that UAI is fitting for a 'rogue' class, and rogue classes are bards and thieves.

I think you'd be better of asking why bards suddenly get awesome trap HLAs whereas they have never dealt with one. (Being on the receiving end of a trap does not count!)

Loremaster

I can think of two reasons for this.

1. Thieves are adapt in using devises, such as traps and locks. I guess the devs started from this this when they developed the HLAs.

2. The devs was probably in a rush to finish ToB in time. This means they didn’t have time to develop the HLAs properly.

I like HLAs as they allow characters to develop at a stage where levels do not matter as much as with lower levels. Although, I think the whole HLA system needs an overhaul as some HLAs fits awkwardly to some classes. Alchemy and scribe scrolls fit mages and priests better than rouges and, as said by @lunar, the trap abilities does not rime well with bards. I think there should be some more abilities tied to the classes and kits, separating themselves from each other. We can hope the devs addresses the HLAs in BG II.

Anduin

Thieves get 'Use Any Item' But it's a far cry from actually using any item well...

In my games they just use the kit sort a left over, that the rest of the team cant use due to lack of slots. Wands, scrolls and magic items all sort of come under this category.

Think about it...

UAI lets a thief use any weapon in the game... But really they still want the one that does the most backstab damage... Honest... (Which will still be somekind of staff a thief can use...)

Wanderon

They figured if thieves didn't get it they would just steal it anyway...

DreadKhan

I don't have my really old high level books in hand ATM, but I thought that they had something like this even in the older editions. Eh, I could look it up.

IkMarc

Lets not forget the argument that it is a really really cool ability in the game and a sole reason to play a thief by itself.

DreadKhan

IkMarc said:

Lets not forget the argument that it is a really really cool ability in the game and a sole reason to play a thief by itself.

I like the ability to backstab everything without having a party get in the way. Thief is the most fun to solo IMO, since you don't need as much cheese. Well some people think backstab spam is cheese, but I see it as good sense for a thief... You'd have to have crummy intelligence and wisdom to not make use of a strategy like the ol runaround backstab strat.

DJKajuru

I'd suggest a new chart for their High level abilities

Bard
Use any Item
Write scroll
Magic flute
Enhanced bard song

Both
Create Potion
(improved) Evasion

Rogue
Special traps
Assassination
Crippling stike