4 man evil run from bg1-tob
Lateralus
Member Posts: 903
There are not a whole lot of Bg2 npcs of evil alignment at this point in time, and none of them are thieves. So I will take Viconia and Edwin. Dorn in BG1 (possibly 2 if they add him in EE) and the battle mad dwarf in bg2.
Sooo....looks like my main needs to be a thief. Should I dual, multi, or single class thief?
Sooo....looks like my main needs to be a thief. Should I dual, multi, or single class thief?
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I should add that they are (probably) adding a new thief to BG2EE.
I you wanted to play only BGEE, a Fighter dualled to Thief at lvl 7 is better than the Swashbuckler in terms of fighting power, but worse as a thief (2 thief levels less). but into BG2, Swashbucklers start to shine and ultimately hit harder than fighters at levels 20+.
I wrote in some other thread on how to build a good Swashbuckler in BG1. Alternative (non-evil) setup could have Minsc, Dynaheir and Branwen/Jaheira. (Khalid will have a little accident...]:-> )
@Mortianna nothing would please me more than see Shar-Teel and other BG NPCs in BG2, i doubt that will happen for probally some excuse or another but, from the BG NPCs, the ones that doesn't have any appearance in BG2 are the ones with the better chance to move there as joinable NPCs (Alora, Yeslick, Kivan, Xan, Brawen, Skie/Eldoth, Kagain and Shar-Teel)
About the introduction of old NPCs of BG in BG2, by contract binds there's no limitation.
The BG NPCs that aren't used in BG2 doesn't have any content related to them at BG2 period. The assignment of rights meant that is forbidden change on the NPCs, and you can only change what already exist, therefore any change in BG EE of the old NPCs would harm the assignment of rights.
However in BG 2 EE, those NPCs will not appear or even be referred at all, therefore is not change, no old content will be touched to add them, it will be extention of content.
We already know that content extentions are able to be done, otherwise, the banters of old NPCs with Rasaad, Neera, Dorn and Baeloth would be already an harm of the assignment of rights. What we intent for BG 2 EE is an large scale extention of content, nothing more, nothing less.
Any NPC that has a single or even small part in BG2 EE could too be introduced as joinable, but a lot more caution would be needed to do that, cos they would have to play their entire scripts without change before any new content is added, and even then, change their ends could be seen as an infraction of the agreement with some few exception. So the best to do is to not change any BG NPC that has any activity in BG 2 as:
-Ajantis that die at Main char hand in Windspear Hills by the plot of Firkgaark.
-Coran (see Safana for explanation).
-Faldorn that is the main enemy of the druid stronghold quest line.
-Garrick that court an lady paladin on Radiant Heart and finish later marring a barmaid of an tavern.
-Quayle that became the foster father of Aerie (in which time that happen i have NO idea)
-Safana that married Coran and settled a trap for the party in the Forest area of BG 2 (the one where is the entrance of Suldanesselar), if the quest is pursued she dies but you have a slim chance of save Coran, who doesn't join the party anyway (and i don't know why cos Safana didn't die at the party hand neither Coran has anything else to do now that his wife died).
-Montaron/Xzar that die at the Harper quest.
-Tiax that is trapped in spellhold for being an insane magic user (ooo what a surprise!!!) and dies at the confront with irenicus there).
Obs: the only exception here would be Quayle and Coran in my view, any other of those NPCs would have to change something important as death or content stated in game banters.
But i don't fool myself, the probally course of the devs. will probally be ignore all the old NPCs, a shame.
Proficiency points: The swashbuckler has 3 ranks in 2wf, 2 ranks with scimitars, and 1 rank with darts, for a total of 6. The fighter also has 3 ranks in 2wf, but 5 ranks with scimitars, for a total of 8.
The raw combat numbers (no str or magic):
Thac0: Fighter wins, 4 to 8. A level 16 swashbuckler has better bonuses to hit but not enough to overcome the base thac0 and weapon mastery of a pure fighter. That's impressive, for a thief to be that close, however this number will continue to favor the fighter as they enter epic levels.
Damage Bonus : Swashbuckler wins +6 to +5. Pretty even, but the gap will slowly grow wider in favor of the rogue as they progress.
Attacks: Fighter wins 3/1 to 1.5/1. The fighter gets double the attacks with his main weapon, not even close in this category.
Intangibles: The swashbuckler. The swashbuckler has a +4 to AC at this level. So if he's wearing none magical elven chain, he's got the same AC as a fighter in full plate before magic and dexterity are factored in. The fighter-as if he wasn't already faster-has a -3 to speed factor with those blades. The tipping point are the rogue skills, the fighter does it's one trick better but the rogue pony is way more resourceful with traps and pre combat thefts that can render an opponent weaponless on rare occasions.
The verdict: I would choose to play a swashbuckler over a fighter or a fighter thief, but I really like having some extra arcane magic in a small party. A Blade or a thief/mage might be a better option. Also, the absence of back stabbing is a huge bummer, kind of makes having all those ranks in stealth meaningless.
Ultimately, I would find it very creative to program the game to allow for one or two NPCs of the players choosing to be found in one of those cages at the beginning of the game. It's okay with me that Khalid and Dynaheir were killed off, but a list of available NPCs that could be chosen by the player before the game is launched, would be pretty amazing. That list could include Dorn, Kagain, Kivan, Alora, Neera (makes perfect sense considering her "research" value), and more. This would serve as a link to promote a seamless transition from one story to the next. Because I mean, I NEVER party with Jaheira or Minsc.
1. Not sure if technically possible.
2. Not sure if it's too time consuming/costly to create.
Dorn never mentioning a random woman who challenged him is a minor thing compared to that. Dorn was probably challenged more than once; it's a "to him, it was Tuesday" case.
Such things are all over BG2. Pretty much any NPC you meet in BG2 could have been killed in BG1, but is magically alive and mentions with no word that they died. It's no stretch to assume that Shar-Teel met Dorn while neither was in the party and challenged him. If they were in your party, you just happened to witness it.
Hmmm I rolled a 92, so my stats are superb. I think I will put 2 ranks in two-handed weapon style, 1 into quarterstaff and...for a missile weapon...how about...longbow.
The same doesn't hold true for variations of Shar-Teel and Dorn: there's only one specific configuration of events in which the player would actually understand what was happening. For anyone else, "random woman shows up to duel your party member" is an inherently meaningless scenario and certainly wouldn't satisfy players who actually wanted Shar-Teel back.
The scenario about hunting down Dorn to challenge him would be meaningless, but it would accomplish the goal: Get a beloved NPC back, with a meaningless, but not senseless connection from BG1. Plus, "people who want Shar-Teel back" likely had her in the BG1 party and there is a very good chance they did witness the original challenge. People who didn't have her in BG1 and don't want her (back) could just chalk it up as a random encounter with no consequences and move on.
That and bring Xzar back.
Don't forget to make Eldoth a Diresinger.
About the reasons why the NPCs in the dungeon are there - Minsc's ties to charname are minimal if they never met before and didn't travel together. Irenicus isn't stupid, he would have noticed very very soon that Minsc has no knowledge of any value. His only connection is Dynaheir, who was already killed. Irenicus has no reason to keep Minsc alive or assume he has knowledge of relevance. By the same logic, Edwin could be in that cage; his mission was to hunt and kill Dynaheir. From an outside perspective, that seems more relevant than Minsc being her bodyguard. Minsc's role is that of a sellsword; Edwin's mission is to interfere with Dynaheir's investigation. He is less a bystander than Minsc.
And there is also disconiutity with the NPCs not in the dungeon. Quayle didn't have the time to adopt and raise Aerie between the games, and he could have been a party member that died in BG1. Just like Garrick, Ajantis, Safana, Coran, Faldorn, Tiax, Edwin, Viconia, Xzar, Montaron. Sure, you'd have the same situation if Shar-Teel showed up to challenge Dorn - but it's the same with every single cameo. That's no point to say she can't logically do that.
yes, losing backstab can be a big flaw, if you like them. but then...go f/t multiclass and you will get lower levels. Assassin can be very powerful, but the 15% skills/level only do hurt.
Go dualclass F->T and become a worse fighter than a pure fighter or swashbuckler...
That's the beauty and curse of Baldur's Gate. There is no perfect class.
You will have to sacrifice something in the run.
Have fun with your half-orc. also a very powerful and viable option.
In the long run F/T has better chances to hit than SBs do, and with backstabbing I like F/T much better. So far it's been fun.
Mod is something accessory, it should suply the lack of content when it's not possible to obtain it by official means or to reflect an game opinion of a modder, people should stop of invert the means with the end, it's not only directed to you this reply @zur312, but to a lot of people in this forum also.