Making a new set of custom D&D rules for BGI and II EE

LordSoverign

I was thinking of making a new set of custom D&D rules for BGI and II (when it comes out) EE, but I'm not sure if it's possible. Anyway here's the idea:

I would like to tinker with the basic stats. Divide them in to two groups:

I) Strength, dexterity, constitution - responsible for body health.

II) Intelligence, wisdom, charisma - responsible for mental strength/power.

Let's take dexterity for example. As a part of the general body health a high dexterity should contribute a little bit to total HP. Like if the char has Dex of 16 he/she would increase by a total of +1 HP per level along with it's standard bonus to AC. But at 18 Dex it would not increase. Instead it would add +1 attack per round (but the mastery of weapons would get a bit nerfed for balance). Or a Con at 18 would give the character immunity to diseases and 18 strength would make you immune to hold person spells.

Drow_Arrow

i like the concept would be an intriguing mod to see... i'd at least try it upon release if only to see how it turns out but i do like this idea very much

Draith012

And charisma will make you immune to charm spells... the only thing I don't care for is that this promotes people making dumb stats. Unless you'll balance it with penalties for the low and extremely low stats, you'll have a bunch of fighters with 3 for intelligence wisdom and charisma

LordSoverign

Well there's that and I also wanted charisma to make you more of a damage dealer. Something at the lines of: "Charisma represents your leadership abilities, the strength of your personality and your inner vigor in combat." So at Charisma of 18 you would gain +2 damage from all sources both magic and melee. Also you wouldn't be able to go below 8 in each stat or above 18. Get rid of those damn nonsense tomes.

You'd start with 08 in each stat and would have the same amount of points as Sarevok from BG2 + 1 (Also Sarevok would get that + 1 point to have just as much as the player character.

So he (or your character) could have stats like:

Strength: 18
Dexterity: 18
Constitution 18
Intelligence 18
Wisdom 10
Charisma 14

So you can feel pretty powerful without having to roll like mad, but forget about increasing your stats threw books and other such nonsense. Also I do believe there where much higher rolls achieved, but let's just have those 48 points to spend for everyone.

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But here's the problem.

I'd need to know if there are any tools that could help me. Since I'm sure as hell no programmer!

Drow_Arrow

@LordSoverign I see your dilemma yeah =ss might be an idea to try and enlist some help with it if there are no programs to help you with this task.

i like the idea behind charisma but i don't see how it would effect your magic damage per say..

for boost from magic damage maybe good intelligence/Wisdom with some kind of reasoning like being a devout caster you've come to respect what magic had done for you in your life and you put your heart/soul/willpower behind all your magic to really give it some oomph.... something like that anyway.

Drow_Arrow

to me high charisma just means you get along with others rather more elegantly than most and can talk your way out of most situations depending on the circumstances.

also for the leadership thing as you stated above which in turn could increase physical output but i don't see it affecting casting at all

Draith012

Actually, I think charisma is how people view you and how well you assert your will onto others. Enemies should be more likely to flee in the face of a high charisma character when the outcome doesn't look good. charisma may increase your chance to dominate opponents with enchantment spells, (which I'm not sure how you'll organize that).

Draith012

I view wisdom as more of your willpower and cleverness.

Draith012

plus, I always thought arcane casting (from books and scrolls) more of an art form and technical processes. How you 'feel' with your soul should be more of a sorcerer thing, not a wizard. It might take some wit and knowhow to cast a spell faster or stronger but your charisma can't force a typical arcane spell to work.

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franco

Thinking players have indulged in this type of thinking about cross pollination between the abilities for decades since D&D began. It's understandable because, in real life, each ability tends to affect the others to some degree, and usually more than one of the abilities is involved in performing various skills.

But D&D is a game, a distillation of real life type complexities into a few numbers that make you feel the essence of the game, that success does depend on experience, abilities and chance. D&D / BG do this very well, and the relative simplicity of the system causes it to be understood more quickly and gets you directly into the action. For example, the Hit Point (HP) is actually not completely realistic, but an abstraction. But it works faster and better than all the role playing games years ago that tried to compete with D&D by claiming to have more realistic systems.

I like the way D&D 3 (I believe) finally based the different possible saving throws more directly on the abilities like Dexterity, Constitution etc. These are much more intuitive, as opposed to "Paralysis/Poison/Death or Rod/Staff/Wands etc." That is a step in the right direction to eventually involve the abilities even more in the actions of the characters.

Draith012

There's a point where things get simplified and there's dumbed down. 4Edition really makes every class identical in progression.

LordSoverign

subtledoctor said:

Stat bonuses are hard-coded. You basically cannot do this. So don't spend too much energy on it...

So there's no way to change them and this was all just a waste of time?

franco

@LordSoverign. I don't think what you are doing here is a waste of time. Ideas and discussions are very important, and some of them work their way into future versions of these games.

LordSoverign

Well it would be nice knowing there's a possibility somewhere or some tools that could make it happen.

Drow_Arrow

aye would be nice to see sumin along these lines in the future.

AstroBryGuy

I think that changing the basic rules of the game is beyond what a mod can do. You're talking about re-writing the engine of the game.

There is an open source clone of the Infinity Engine - GemRB. I suppose you could use that to implement your custom rules.

http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start

zur312

3rd rules are what you are looking for
stats are important

Draith012

What I hate about 3rd stat rules is that half the numbers aren't relevant.

LordSoverign

I really want to make each stat important for the player character and NPC's. Even your charisma in battle - as in your vigor. Your personal vigor and the power of your will (Wisdom) are two separate things. You can be determined, but you can lack vigor (approach everything calmly instead of "I must win this fight! I must put as much power in to each attack as I can." = vigor/charisma). And since there's a limited amount of points you'll have to chose this over that.

In any case - every single statistic would start to matter and that's the point. I'm not planning on copying existing edition rules (IF actually changing any rules is possible). I want to make completely new ones. No more HP based on class. You get +2 for each class level and rely mostly on your physical attributes for HP. 16 Strength would get you +1, 18 Constitution would get you +10 and 16 Agility another +1. So you can get 12 in total +2 HP from any class. That way you get a maximum of 14HP per level - correct me if I'm wrong but that's just as much as before for warriors with 18 Constitution. Your melee damage and hit ratings would rely on Strength/Agility/Proficiency and so on and so on.

It's a system that rewards you based on your stats and skills not your class. With no retarded crap like not being able to achieve weapon mastery as a Paladin. A system that is fair, easy to understand and user friendly. A system where a heavy plate armor would rather add to it's user's resistance to damage rather then AC and a lather armor would make them light on their feet and hard to hit.

Aquadrizzt

@LordSoverign: If you want to design your own rules and system, I would suggest using gemRB. It's an open source port of the Infinity Engine that allows to define the entire rule system outside of the restrictions of BG/BGII/BGEE.

LordSoverign

So with that tool I could make a mod for BG:EE?

CoM_Solaufein

DLTCEP is basically the on updated tool to use on EE.

franco

I went through a phase of dissecting the game like this once. Note that there is more than one type of Dex (ability to move well, or manual manipulation). Similarly, thinking about the differences between Wisdom and Will or even Will and Charisma, or Charisma and Comeliness can lead to many interesting hours. And these are just the tip of the iceberg. I finally accepted the idea that a game needs to grasp well just the essence of each ability to give the player the right atmosphere and ease of play. The human mind will often do the rest.

But Designing and thinking of all the possibilities is something very creative and admirable and keeps our juices flowing. So, @LordSoverign I encourage you in your quest.

AstroBryGuy

LordSoverign said:

So with that tool I could make a mod for BG:EE?

GemRB isn't a tool to make a mod - its a open-source replacement for the Infinity Engine (the core code that implements AD&D 2e rules for BGEE). Since GemRB is open source, you could take the code and change the rules to fit your concepts.

LordSoverign

I'm a bit busy with exams to check it out right now, but... isn't it going to be written in some programming language? It's just a code right. So you'd actually need experience with this or some with experience to help. Am I right?

zur312

Draith012 said:

What I hate about 3rd stat rules is that half the numbers aren't relevant.

maybe it is not perfect but way more epic than baldur's gate conc str dex rest nax others 3 and you are good to go

even charisma intel and wisdom gives bonuses for a character