Freedom in relationships: how much is too much?

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

Hello everyone,

As I was surfing the net, which I ocassionally do when I'm bored, I stumbled upon a discussion about freedom in relationships. Now there was this one comment about a guy not minding his girlfriend kissing or 'sexting' (sending others intimate messages with sexual content) others, even though they were in a relationship. It got me thinking about freedom in relationships. How far would you let your other half go with others? What do you consider as 'cheating'? In other words, how much is too much for you? Please discuss! To the mods: if this topic is somehow inappropriate, feel free to remove it.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

I will start: I admit, I am a very traditional and, yes, jealous person. My partner is mine, I do not like to 'share'. This may sound selfish, but it just shows how deep my love for my partner goes. Of course I will not 'cage' them, take their freedom away (god no!), but I am quickly irked when it comes to contacts with (especiqlly attractive) girls. This mainly has to do with my own low self value image. I also was cheated on and manipulated in a previous relationship, so yeah, that didn't really help my trust issues either. Luckily I am in a happy relationship now. Anyway, hope this topic doesn't come over as too 'teenage girlish' (I'm 23 and way past that period already anyway ).

EntropyXII

Cheating is cheating. It can be forgiven under the right circumstances, for example: I would be pretty angry if 'sexting' was going on, but I could forgive it. Anything involving any kind of physical intimacy is an instant goodbye for me.

I've been cheated on before as well - it sucks I know. Don't let it get to you. In the end it's their loss, your gain. Some people cheat - and they will most likely cheat on whoever they are with.

That's my opinion on the matter anyway. I won't judge anybody here with an alternative view.

God

There is, you see, a Goddess. What separates us from Chaos is the division between us, the division that connects us. There is two that is one.
Oh, wait. I was not supposed to spoil the mysteries of the universe, was I?

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@EntropyXII: I agree. I am not a supporter of 'sexual liberalism', where partners are supposedly together, but at the same time also flirt with others. Even though 'sexting' only implies actions, it still happens in the imagination of both parties. You're mentally there, doing certain sexual acts with another which is not your partner. So in a sense, I consider it as cheating. the argument the guy I mentioned earlier used, was that if it (involvement with others) makes his partner happy, he had no issues with it. This lead me to believe he was either extremely tolerant or quite naive and idealistic.

demented

Weird as it sounds, I don't experience jealousy. That's not to say I'm ok with my partner cheating, I would certainly have a problem if they were kissing (I don't mean just a friendly kiss) and sexting other people. It would mean she doesn't respect me and I would most likely end the relationship.

Magnus_Grelich

I am unsure what my thoughts/feelings are on this. I have only ever had three relationships, although I always like to think of myself as understanding and tolerant, I wonder how I would feel if my significant other was flirting with someone else. Would I know them well enough to know they wouldn't take it too far? Would I be insanely jealous and confront them about it? It's a difficult thing to gauge for me. My last gf would get jealous of my other female friends and worry that I would cheat on her. I never did, but when someone has it in their mind so strongly that you would do that, it causes a lot of arguments. Both of us were going through a very bad time as people, though. We didn't exactly have our heads on straight.

Tresset

I have had 0 relationships. Yay...

franco

I think there are two types of people you can have a relationship with. These are ..1) Nourishing or 2) Toxic.
A Toxic person is just that, someone who doesn't make you feel good. You may think you love/desire/like them, but their actions often add to your stress and dissatisfaction with your situation. Believe me, life actually goes by too rapidly for you to invest yours in someone who doesn't bring you a feeling of well being. Toxic partners, as well as friends, should be ditched to give you the precious time to meet the persons who will nourish you. You might even live longer.

You can still think about your partner's actions, and discuss it with them. But in the end, if it still leaves you with a feeling of stress and dissatisfaction, or a feeling of being dishonored, then it is far better in the long run to eliminate the situation and seek or accept only friends or partners who help nourish your life. I've been there.

O_Bruce

Bluntly speaking: cheating is cheating and no circumstance can change that fact. Certain circumstances can make me forgive it, yes, but what's done is done. Personally, I think I will never do something like "sexting" or cheating on my girlfriend by having sex with random girl.

I might sound selfish and jealous, but I don't care: I will not never find cheating on someone OK. If I am faithful and dedicated to my girlfriend, then I require and trust her to do the same. If girl and boy aren't faithful and dedicated to themselves, then there is no relationship, to be honest.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@franco: I'd give you an Insightful for that were I not on my phone again. I'll make sure to do so soon on my PC. According to your logic, my previous relationship indeed was a toxic one. I had just started my firs year of university and was already stressed enough as it is. I thought my relationship would relieve some of that stress. It only got worse. He would get mad at me if I came online on the chat too late (it also was a long-distance relationship) and try to warp my vision on my family, telling me how I should get away from them ASAP. Thinking back on it only gives me a sour taste in the mouth. We had our good moments, some of which I fondly remember...But all of that got overshadowed when I discovered his web of lies and cheating. He was a manipulator, one whom I'd almost married. *shivers*
@ZelgadisGW: We may not agree on some things, but here I agree with you fully.

franco

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud. Thanks for sharing with me. You're going to be ok. You're learning things much earlier than I did.

State_Lemming

I'm going to be the boring poster in this thread, but this is the sort of thing best discussed with your partner, preferably before doing anything rash.

franco

@State_Lemming. I agree with the boring poster. The partners should definitely discuss these things. How well those discussions go and how much understanding there is should help to determine what would be best for you.

DJKajuru

It's hard to be romantic and be in an open relationship at the same time...

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

I agree, @DJKajuru. I just don't se how it is possible to just accept your partner to openly flirt with others like that. How can you still take love seriously then?

Aristillius

I sometimes meet people who claim that they arent jealous, and even allows a free rein, allowing their girlfriend/boyfriend to sex around. I guess if they prefer that, then by all means, go wild.

Myself, I get easily jealous, I dont even think its selfish, its only because I love someone very much when I fall in love. However, I also trust any gf a lot, so they could go on vacation without me and party if they want to. Although I would not be happy if they went on a vacation with another guy, that would only be under veeeery special circumstances.

State_Lemming

DJKajuru said:

It's hard to be romantic and be in an open relationship at the same time...

I've seen it work...and I have scene it crash and burn.

DJKajuru

Well, @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud , I believe that flirting is something healthy. But for me flirting is starring at someone you find attractive , telling a friend that he or she is sexy on those clothes... that's healthy, but I wouldn't do it in front of my boyfriend, because if I he kept doing the same in front of me I'd be really jealous.

I have seen some couples do that, and I've seen couples have a really open relationship, but it usually happens because one of them really enjoys total freedom, and found someone who allows it.

As I said before, no matter how much I enjoy freedom and flirting, I'm romantic and I it is important for me to feel that we are special to each other.

Southpaw

...I'd agree with the boring poster - this is something that every person sees differently.
I am not a very jealous person.
I don't have a problem if my prettier half flirts with someone, or looks at other guys. I am under the impression that it would be worse, if she had not.
Even a light touch would be OK, but a kiss or anything more ... and I'm out.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

Well, I just read how the couple mentioned in my OP pretty much broke up. Oddly enough the guy the girl was sexting with disappeared too. Says enough, doesn't it.

State_Lemming

While I am supportive of people in polyamorous and/or open relationships, I do confess to not seeing the appeal of it, I assume it takes a level of maturity and self confidence that I don't think most people have, including myself.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@State_Lemming: I don't think it's about maturity or self-confidence. It's a matter of trust. Trust in the unconditional love of the other for you. But as I said before, how can you love another when you blatantly flirt with others right in their face? There's something there that doesn't add up, and I don't like that. The point is: if you can't handle a relationship and be serious anout your lover, don't have a relationship at all. At some point this 'openness' only becomes an obstacle.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

*about

Drugar

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

@State_Lemming: I don't think it's about maturity or self-confidence. It's a matter of trust. Trust in the unconditional love of the other for you. But as I said before, how can you love another when you blatantly flirt with others right in their face? There's something there that doesn't add up, and I don't like that. The point is: if you can't handle a relationship and be serious anout your lover, don't have a relationship at all. At some point this 'openness' only becomes an obstacle.

To me, this comes across as contradictory. You say love is a matter of trust but apparently you can't trust anyone who flirts with someone else. Then do you call that love?

Jealousy is all about insecurity and lack of trust. The fear that your significant other might be interested in someone else because you're not good enough and lacking the trust that he or she will love you anyway.
Whether or not flirting is a problem is something that a couple needs to decide in a relationship for themselves. If one party is uncomfortable with it, they both shouldn't be doing it. Same goes for sexting or hugging others or whatever.

I trust my girlfriend completely. She's a sweetheart of a girl who's totally in love with me. Likewise, I really love her and when we're together we're sickeningly cute. We're both free to flirt with whoever we want. I don't mind when she does it, it's good for her ego (which is good for me because she'll feel better) and I know that she won't go astray. Likewise, she knows that me noticing a pretty lady is on the same level as me noticing that they have massive Lego Star Destroyers now (both awesome, but I shouldn't get one).
She knows I think she's the prettiest (I do, she is smokin') and I know she thinks I'm the prettiest (I am).
Whether or not we do any sexual stuff with other people (we don't) is not so much that we wouldn't trust our love for eachother, but a simple preference that it's something only we share.

Coming from several relationships where I wasn't allowed to even look at (and I literally mean "visually percieve", not stare lecherously) other women because my girlfriend would automaticly assume that any women I laid eyes on would trigger a reaction in me which'd cause me to mount her like a lion, it's a refreshingly relaxed, open and in my mind, mature way of dealing with a relationship.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@Drugar: Hmm, now that you mention it, it was quite a contradictory remark indeed. Of course I don't want to imply that neither party can't even glimpse at other people of the opposite sex. My main point was that I dislike the whole 'let's flirt with everybody right in front of my boy/girlfriend!' mindset, which such people then label as 'being open-minded, liberal' and other kinds of bs, while they just come across as immature, careless and ignorant. But dare call them out on it. Because as soon as you do, you're 'old-fashioned' and 'narrow-minded'. Well, that certainly explains the huge increase in divorces in some Western countries as off lately, heh. Sometimes I get the impression people have become so self-centred that love has lost its true meaning.

franco

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud. I know. If you oppose an open (basically promiscuous) relationship, they call you 'old-fashioned' and 'narrow-minded'. But they're the ones who ultimately will be missing something and never be happy. Just go out and insist on a relationship that makes you feel good about it, and don't take anymore cat-litter from anybody.

ajwz

State_Lemming said:

I'm going to be the boring poster in this thread, but this is the sort of thing best discussed with your partner, preferably before doing anything rash.

or indeed, doing anyone with a rash.

Djimmy

I am not a jealous person by default. Life is too short to chase after rainbows and unicorns.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

@State_Lemming: I don't think it's about maturity or self-confidence. It's a matter of trust. Trust in the unconditional love of the other for you. But as I said before, how can you love another when you blatantly flirt with others right in their face? There's something there that doesn't add up, and I don't like that. The point is: if you can't handle a relationship and be serious anout your lover, don't have a relationship at all. At some point this 'openness' only becomes an obstacle.

"Unconditional love" sounds too naive. No matter how "unconditional" love is, don't ever get married without signing a prenup. Love comes and goes. Trust only in your family(but not unconditionally)

In my opinion jealousy comes from self-doubt and from the wrong understanding that someone is "yours". But if your bf/gf is flirting(sexting, cheating etc...) with someone, then you should not consider your relationship to be more serious than they think it is. If you do, you probably will get hurt in the end.