Skip to content

Is Crom Fayer worth it ?

So I'm just wondering is this mighty and legendary hammer actually worth forging it?
I'm replaying BG 2 again now with a party of : me as a monk, imoen, valygar, anomen, minsc and mazzy.

And actually the three pieces apart are very good though. Valygar and Mazzy are way much stronger with some more STR and the war hammer isn't that bad at all, so it goes good with Anomen.

So my question is now is Crom Fayer worth the sacrifice of these 3 excellent pieces of equipment ?
«13

Comments

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Honestly, IMO, No. It isn't. You have to sacrifice too many decent pieces of equipment and it really isn't very good by comparison. 25 Str is kind of overrated, and the killing giant humanoids thing isn't as useful as it could be.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    edited May 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
    My Anomen fights with the sword / shield style so ..... I guess I'm not doing it thanks :D
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    That is true. Dual-wielding it on the off-hand with Anomen would be nice. It really depends on whether you have other strength-boosting equipment. The major damage boost comes from Strength 19 (as opposed to say 17 or 18/xx that isn't /00), above that is much lower scaling. If Mazzy is going to go back to Str 14 and you don't have any items to boost her up I'd be wary about using it, since having Mazzy and Anomen with Str 18/00 or above is probably more beneficial than Anomen at Str 25 and Mazzy back at 14.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    25 strength is really not needed overall. Sure it's nice to have though.

    I usually make Minsc Dual wield flails, FoA+3 in the main hand, Defender of Easthaven in the other, with some supplementary weapons in the main hand (Mace of Disruption usually, for ultimate vampire hunting)

    I can't see Crom being that useful in the main hand, so I'd rather have it in the offhand - except for areas like Suldanesselar where I want to clear out the golems as fast as possible - it's quite useful at that.

    Considering it's a +5 weapon with decent damage, having it in the main hand for certain foes can help too. So I tend to mix it up if you will.

    But usually, unless my character is a cleric (which can achieve 25 strength easily with Holy Power, Righteous Magic and Draw Upon Holy Might easily) I'll tend to use Belm(Scarlet Ninja-to if Rogue)-Kundane with some higher enchantment weapons as an alternative.


    So is Crom useful? Depends entirely on the given situation. Against golem? Yes. Against people immune to +4 weapons? Yes. Against average bobbies? Nope.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    CF is usually not a very good weapon. "Usually", because setups and preferences of people vary wildly. From a strictly objective point of view, CF's innate damage isn't exactly spectacular (though also not bad). The instant-killing ability is rarely relevant, but a nice bonus. The biggest draw however is the 25 STR it grants - and at the same time, that is also it's big weakness.

    Why? Because of clerics. Normally, you would want any dual-wielder to use one of the 1h weapons with +1 APR bonuses (Kundane, Belm, and Scarlet Ninja-to) in the off-hand, because they add the most damage of all available choices by far. Clerics cannot use any of these weapons, as they are not blunt. That means that CF is often relegated to use by clerics - clerics, however, also have access to the spell Draw upon Holy Might, which at higher level pretty much gives them a constant 25 STR already. That means the biggest draw of CF, its STR bonus, is largely (if not completely) wasted on a cleric.

    Of course, you can give CF to a non-cleric instead; but that would mean using it over a non-blunt alternative, of which there usually are several with better damage than CF, even accounting for the STR bonus. And keep in mind that by not assembling CF, you do retain some STR bonuses through use of its components!

    I'm not saying there aren't scenarios in which you'll gladly use CF, but in general and on average, you'd rather have the parts and use some other weapon instead.
  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 361
    Yes, it is definitely worth it. It all depends on your party and their proficiencies, but most of the time, it is a boon.
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    Yes. Make it, even if you don't use it. It is nice to know you have such a powerful weapon in your inventory.
  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 361
    Exactly! I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Like toilet paper.:D
  • GandalfPortraitGuyGandalfPortraitGuy Member Posts: 206
    Awong124 said:

    The problem is that the components used to make it are useful as well.

    Right. A lot more useful than toilet paper.:)
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2013
    As Lord_Tansheron pointed out, it usually is relegated to clerics which don't need the STR bonus. Fighter types are usually better off with 19 STR and +apr weapons instead of 25 str.

    I could see maybe a blade dual wielding crom with off hand belm or something maybe. Can blades dual wield 3 pips in vanilla? I don't remember, I use rogue rebalancing..

    Maybe a Ranger?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited May 2013
    Solo, non-cleric, non-evil (Evil can achieve a raw 24 or 25 by the end of the game, depending on if your starting str was 18 or 19, and you're a warrior type), yes. Otherwise, no.

    Yes, blades can put up to 3 pips, but you either only get 1 weapon type and 3 pips or 2 weapons and 2 pips during BG1 (and can't dual-wield meaningfully till lvl 4). RRB simply gives then 3 pips for free at creation (as per PnP).

    Also, blades should be using Scarlet Ninja-to (Kuudane prior to UAI) and Belm exclusively, except vs 4+ and higher creatures. Their massive lack of natural attacks and crappy bard thac0 holds them back, making them far more suited for the bonus attacks granted by dual-wielding speed weapons (at 10 attacks, even a plain bard with only * two weapon will mow through enemies like a hasted fighter). Under IH they easily reach 10 attacks the moment you have access to IH and 2 speed weapons. Unlike the swashy, the blade never gets any abilities to increase their attack rate meaningfully, and lets face it, warriors already can achieve 8+ attacks under IH, and do so with any weapons they want to wield, with the thac0 necessary to effectively guarantee they'll all hit, so speed weapons are generally wasted on them.

    Anomen can hit a natural 25 str under DUHM as long as he has 19+ str (requires lvl 18, but you'll likely hit that before you get far enough to make Crom). Give him a 19 str belt or you could even sacrifice the lum str boost on him for a raw 19.

    2 slings add a str bonus, as does the Firetooth (dagger), giving incentive for your ranged to have high strength (no bow or crossbow gets a str bonus in BG2). Melee of course benefits nicely, and most of the fighters are lacking in the str department, so even the weaker str items are of benefit.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438

    Awong124 said:

    The problem is that the components used to make it are useful as well.

    Right. A lot more useful than toilet paper.:)
    Well...look at mummies. They're zombies that get wrapped in toilet paper, and then the diseases get all over the toilet paper, and grow and fester, and then they give you diseases when they attack!
  • Dalis918Dalis918 Member Posts: 37
    There's plenty of strength boosting items out there really, so I don't consider the loss too significant. I tend to duel wield it with flail of ages on my fighter/priest. Besides which there's also plenty of priest spells to boost strength for combat.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Dual-wielding isn't particularly good without a +APR offhand, and off-handing it with a cleric is doubly useless, since the 25 STR is essentially wasted.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I have never used Crom Faeyr. 25 Strength is really good on a fighter (+3 to hit/+5 damage above what the component belt gives), but I've just never been able to justify losing out on the gauntlets (since there are only 3 18/00+ stat upping items before Suldanessellar, and two of them go into Crom Faeyr).

    So yeah. That's the problem in BG2 proper. In TOB, things change slightly. There's another Belt of Giant Strength, and a sword that functions as one, so losing out on the Gauntlets is less important. However, there are now quite a lot of weapons that are better than Crom Faeyr overall. For example, it's hard justify using Crom Faeyr instead of, say, Foebane. THAC0 is all but irrelevant at that point in the game, and Foebane does more raw damage even considering the Strength difference, plus it heals you. The Storm Star and Angurvadal similarly outdamage Crom Faeyr, and the Flail of Ages performs better in its +4 form, much less the +5 one. As for off-hands, the Crimson Ninja-To will add more damage than Crom Faeyr will unless you're in Whirlwind Attack mode, which is far from permanent (and everyone else has covered why clerics don't really care about Crom Faeyr either).

    That said, certain builds may like it. Particularly builds that don't need the Strength across multiple characters. If you don't have a front-liner (or Sling of Seeking user) to use the Gauntlets on, Crom Faeyr starts to look like a pretty good option.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Has anyone mentioned yet that the Crom Faeyr is like having The Hulk on hand to smash open locks for you?
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    CaptRory said:

    Has anyone mentioned yet that the Crom Faeyr is like having The Hulk on hand to smash open locks for you?

    By the time you can get the Crom Faeyr you really should have a thief that can open any lock.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @Awong124 I agree. But it is something in its favor. More notable for solo runs.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    edited May 2013
    CaptRory said:

    Has anyone mentioned yet that the Crom Faeyr is like having The Hulk on hand to smash open locks for you?

    While handy, it suffers from the same redundancy as CF, namely that any cleric worth their salt can get to 25 STR easily through DuHM.

    Oh and, because it can't be said often enough: Whirlwind is worse than Improved Haste. Learn to love Improved Haste. It's quite likely the single most powerful spell in the entire game.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Many things don't exactly make RP-sense in the BG series. It's a video game, not a round moderated by a human DM. Deal with it.
  • leeowensoasleeowensoas Member Posts: 81
    Crommy is WAY worth it! It's excellent as an off-hand weapon for any non-cleric/barbarian/half-orc who lines up as many STR boosts as possible for himself including being evil in hell. Especially if you use the True Grandmastery tweak, which gives fighters an extra APR for reaching GM, nullifying the benefit of dual-wielding belm/kundane/SNT.

    Also, many people don't realize (because even after the GTU from the G3 BG2 Fixpack, the error remains), CF does (2d4+3, +5 Elec) damage! This is huge! It ties for the 4th best damage mainhand weapon!

    Flail of Ages: 19.5 (1d6+6+2+2+2+2+2)
    Club of Detonation 13.5+ (1d6+5+5+30% chance for 15+)
    Foebane: 14 (2d4+5+4)
    CF: 13 (2d4+3+5)
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Improved haste doesn't have the age or fatigue penalty (though it also technically doesn't exist in core 2nd edition, it's from a 3rd party book). In PnP 3rd level haste doubles attacks, but ages and fatigues the recipients. Improved haste only effects 1 target but also has no penalty for use.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @Samus That isn't an issue in BG.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
Sign In or Register to comment.