8 hit points vs. a -1 to AC
Lateralus
Member Posts: 903
I want to give Kagain the cursed claw that lowers constitution by 2 points, but gives a +1 to AC and more. His shorty saves would be unaffected by the drop, so the only downfall would be losing 1hp per level (max level 8) and his regeneration. I actually don't care about the regen because I usually have plenty of healing spells on hand, although I know that's a big deal to many of you. Looking past that, would you rather have the 8HP or an additional -1 to ac?
BTW I am using somebodies clever idea, and giving him 2 pips in bastard sword so he can be immune to poison and not have to worry about the death save penalty that much. While in the meantime enjoying a massive +3 bonus to his other saves on top of shorty bonues and the +2 necklace and +2 ring of protection!
BTW I am using somebodies clever idea, and giving him 2 pips in bastard sword so he can be immune to poison and not have to worry about the death save penalty that much. While in the meantime enjoying a massive +3 bonus to his other saves on top of shorty bonues and the +2 necklace and +2 ring of protection!
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Comments
150 hp vs 50 hp makes difference
8hp is nothing
Personally I think the save bonus seals the deal a lot more than the -1 AC, since you'll be stacking those bonuses on a 18 con dwarf.
And if you haven't used the constitution tome you can get the 8hp that way.
Overall it sounds like you've got a nice build planned!
I already figured out poison, Kagain will take 2 ranks in bastard sword and wield Simmeon's blade. Total immunity to poison. The few magical bastard swords in the game are very useful. One of them is +3 vs. shape shifters and Baldur's sword is +4 vs. lycanthropes, so I plan on stealing that with my rogue before taking on a greater wolfwere.
I'll take my chances with disease.
Kagain with the Claw of Kazgoroth, the Ring of Protection +2, Helm of Balduran, Cloak of Balduran, and the Amulet of Spell Warding plus his shorty bonus and total immunity to poison.. Has the following saves at first level:
Death: 9
wand:4
polymorph:8
breath weapon:10
spell:3
Not bad, eventually his save vs spell will drop under 0, combined with 25% magic resistance, and there really isn't ever any need to buff him. With a +2 shield he will have a -11 AC. With the boots of a avoidance he gains a -15 total bonus to missile weapons from the claw, shield, and armor.
A tank that is 95% immune to missile fire, greatly resistant to magic, immune to poison, can put out some damage with the "cursed" belt equipped, with a -10 AC and 14hp level maximum...is a-okay with me.
Regeneration while moving from map to map or sleeping? Bah.
In mine, Kagain really isn't that impressive a NPC without the 20 CON. I'd personally much rather have Minsc or Shar-Teel or Dorn over Kagain if he doesn't have that feature.
Shar-Teel can become the best fighter/thief, Dorn has 19 Str and cool Blackguard stuff.
Minsc has... Boo?
Give The Brawling Hands (aka Gauntlets of Dexterity) + Big-Fisted Belt to Kagain and you'll have a fighter with better damage, better saving-throws and higher hp than Minsc will ever have. And this a fact, not my opinion.
At the end of the day, I am not saying anything other than "Consider that losing this element may have bearing on your decision."
The point is that you can boost STR and DEX, so all is left is the class, CON score and the race.
But if you were mainly referring to the fun factor, then I would pick Zoidberg! X)
If Kagain (with a CON of 20 = +5 and REGEN) had the same CON as Minsc (15 = +1 Hp and no regen) it would be the same? Um????? In what alternate universe? +5 HP per level is in no way the same as +1 HP per level. And although you may not appreciate the regen, the fact remains that it is a benefit greater than zero. Also, CON impacts saving throws. in other words, not the same. not even close.
Then there is the fact that Minsc has his enormous strength pretty much from the get-go. The gauntlets that give Kagain approximate strength doesn't come till you reach the City. Not sure what the big fisted belt is you are refering too. Perhaps if you used it's proper name, I might know. But I don't 'Think' there are any girdles of giant strength. I could be wrong there. Certainly even if there are, they aren't early on in the game, so same problem as the Gauts listed above.
Then there is Minsc's Zerker ability which Kagain doesn't have. That accounts for something. All Kagain has is D10 hp (which might be variably more) and weapon grand mastery which again doesn't come into play until later on.
Utilitarian these characters are not the same. In short, the only reason I can think of utilitarian wise that tips the scale in kagain's favor is the CON of 20. Sans that, he is a fairly mediocre fighter. Even equipped as you indicate, those items can be used elsewhere and to significant effect. Not seeing any loss in doing so.
And then there is all of the Fun that is Minsc and Boo. And the fact that he won't leave you for having an increasingly higher rep which is the game bound and programing to give you. Seems all over Kagain to me. Except the fact that you don't have to spend hardly any healing on him over the life of the game, thus leaving that free for healing other members of the group.
It is destined for Rasaad, but other fighters can use it. (I don't remember if there were any restrictions)
While those items can be used elsewhere and to the same effect what makes Kagain such a great candidate for them is that no one else has a Con score equivalent to him. While anyone can have 19 or 18/00 Str and 18 Dex from items no one can have a Con score of 20. There simply aren't any items in the game to do that (besides the Charname being a half-orc or dwarf and using the Con Tome.)
With the Claw of Kazgaroth and Kagain he doesn't suddenly loose what makes him special, he still has a silly high Con score. In fact, Kagain is the only NPC to wear that item and still have a Constitution of 18 which, in my opinion, makes him pretty special.
"It wouldn't change anything if Kagain had Minsc's CON." = Kagain will still be superior to Minsc.
20 CON being reduced to 18 making Kagain less viable is a factor to consider when using the claw.
I can get the Big Fisted Belt around level 4 or 5 with just Viconia and Kagain helping me out. I know how to quickly assassinate Mulahay and Davedorn, and you actually don't even need to kill anybody to progress the plot from the bandit camp.
If you're looking for a beserker I would not pick Kagain, and if you're looking for a tank I would not pick Minsc. They usually make minsc-meat out of him.
The scales are tipped heavily in Kagain's favor as a tank, very heavily. Shorty saves, shield use, and and 18 con (still a huge step up from Minsc) plus the benefits of the Claw.
Has anybody ever said to themselves, "Wow, Kagain's regeneration really saved his butt during that fight!" Of course not, because he will only regen one or two HP during a fight. Also, if you're not using most of your healing spells on your tank anyways, then you are doing it wrong.
Its up to you which is more valuable. If you use him with the vampire sword to heal the party, its obviously not worth it.
With the right equip, Kagain becomes the best melee char in the game. Both on damage dealing and tank side. Like it or not.
And yes, that's because of his CON, class and race are complementary with the items you find.