Quite accurate actually...

dstoltzfus

This is a repost from Reddit (I actually am not subscribed to Reddit, but read it occasionally).

EDIT: I have since given in and joined reddit...Pelor save me.

ajwz

The problem with these alignment charts is that they make me want to stab people

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@dstoltzfus: Question: Where would you rank Bethesda? And the 'old' Bioware?

ajwz

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

@dstoltzfus: Question: Where would you rank Bethesda? And the 'old' Bioware?

Multiple personality disorder and Neutral Dead respectively.

Kaltzor

Well, EA did respond to the two golden turd awards they got...

But it could be summarized as "Really? There are much worse companies out there. Gamers are just voting us as the worst one because of the Mass Effect 3 ending and DRM."

dstoltzfus

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud, I am an amateur when it comes to keeping up on video game companies. I know enough of the big ones and found the picture relevant to the interests of the community here...soo...no real valuable opinion on Bethesda.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@Kaltzor: Well, they DID have a point in pointing out that Bank of America is still worse...Those fellows put people out of their house, while EA just still meddles with 'luxury' products like games...

Malicron

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

@Kaltzor: Well, they DID have a point in pointing out that Bank of America is still worse...Those fellows put people out of their house, while EA just still meddles with 'luxury' products like games...

And I totally agreed with them that BP should have gotten it before them. I think EA sucks, but they've yet to crash the economy or destroy an ecosystem.

"I agree with EA." God, that feels wrong...

Cheesebelly

The moment I saw the lawful good, I shouted "NO!"

For reference : every single youtube video about ANY nintendo game has been claimed and is making ad revenue by Nintendo. That means that partners that put lots of effort into making their videos don't get a SINGLE CENT. Those scums are Lawful evil.

Moomintroll

Lawful Stupid Decision

Seems like they are roleplaying it correctly to me

SCARY_WIZARD

I agree 100% with Nintendo and Valve's placement.

Kaltzor

Cheesebelly said:

The moment I saw the lawful good, I shouted "NO!"

For reference : every single youtube video about ANY nintendo game has been claimed and is making ad revenue by Nintendo. That means that partners that put lots of effort into making their videos don't get a SINGLE CENT. Those scums are Lawful evil.

You know... Nintendo is completely in the right to do so... And technically getting ad revenue of videos of playing some companys game is a copyright infringement... Since they are, while indirectly, making money off of a copyright product. So them taking the money made this way is more or less the best case scenario of them taking action... The worst would've been taking the videos down and sending in lawsuits to the people making them.

Moomintroll

Kaltzor said:

Cheesebelly said:

The moment I saw the lawful good, I shouted "NO!"

For reference : every single youtube video about ANY nintendo game has been claimed and is making ad revenue by Nintendo. That means that partners that put lots of effort into making their videos don't get a SINGLE CENT. Those scums are Lawful evil.

You know... Nintendo is completely in the right to do so... And technically getting ad revenue of videos of playing some companys game is a copyright infringement... Since they are, while indirectly, making money off of a copyright product. So them taking the money made this way is more or less the best case scenario of them taking action... The worst would've been taking the videos down and sending in lawsuits to the people making them.

They may be in the right, but I can't help feel that their decision is bad for everyone. Lack of interest in the guys giving them free advertising, looks bad to the community imo, even if there is very little money involved.

Kaltzor

Moomintroll said:

Kaltzor said:

Cheesebelly said:

The moment I saw the lawful good, I shouted "NO!"

For reference : every single youtube video about ANY nintendo game has been claimed and is making ad revenue by Nintendo. That means that partners that put lots of effort into making their videos don't get a SINGLE CENT. Those scums are Lawful evil.

You know... Nintendo is completely in the right to do so... And technically getting ad revenue of videos of playing some companys game is a copyright infringement... Since they are, while indirectly, making money off of a copyright product. So them taking the money made this way is more or less the best case scenario of them taking action... The worst would've been taking the videos down and sending in lawsuits to the people making them.

They may be in the right, but I can't help feel that their decision is bad for everyone. Lack of interest in the guys giving them free advertising, looks bad to the community imo, even if there is very little money involved.

Well, I'm not saying it's a good move, but it's a move that was going to be done by some company sooner or later... I think the fact that it was Nintendo who did it minimized the flaming... I mean, imagine if EA had done this...

Cheesebelly

Kaltzor said:

You know... Nintendo is completely in the right to do so... And technically getting ad revenue of videos of playing some companys game is a copyright infringement... Since they are, while indirectly, making money off of a copyright product. So them taking the money made this way is more or less the best case scenario of them taking action... The worst would've been taking the videos down and sending in lawsuits to the people making them.

Normally I would agree with you, BUT :

1) Partners that get ad revenue from video games have to be in a network - otherwise it's illegal. The networks themselves have the RIGHTS to publish such videos.
2) The ad revenue made by the videos is NOTHING in comparison to what Nintendo usually earns. It's literally below 1%.
3) Even non-partnered youtubers will have advertisements on their videos just because of the whims of Nintendo.


While EA, Sony and Microsoft are actually publicly supporting such cases (through built-in streaming programs in their games and consoles) because they realize it's literally free advertisement for their products, Nintendo, like SEGA did a year ago, completely dislikes it, saying "people should experience the game on their own" - really? And what if the game is shit? Oh right, loss of money! Thanks Nintendo!

Edit : it's also worth noting that big youtubers who boost game sales incredibly, like Total Biscuit and Northernlion are boycotting Nintendo entirely. Even more loss on their side.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

I agree with @Cheesebelly, because he knows what he's talking about. How could Nintendo do this? As if they don't earn enough already! This literally is a big 'f*** you' to the people who are indirectly advertising Nintendo games. A LOT of videos on YouTube are based/inspired on copyright material. What if all of the music/TV show/game companies go throwing around this kind of 'copyright infringement' bull? My guess is that YouTube would become a very sad place as a lot of people would leave the place. Despite being a fangirl, I fully support boycotting Nintendo at this point. If we, the consumers, don't do anything, this kind of crap will only get worse and more brutal. It's the same with many of us gamers having made the mistake of passively accepting cash whoring methods like Day One DLC and microtransactions in single player games. This capitalist mentality corrupting the games industry HAS to stop!

Cheesebelly

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud indirectly, people don't have the rights to post music or TV Shows without the owner's conscent, because it's non-interactive media. I read a bit about the laws of copyright - Games and their content are owned by the company - the gameplay is owned by the player, because it's the player that shapes it. So videos of the PLAYER's gameplay are not owned by any company. What Nintendo did is create a claiming machine - they literally added to the youtube flag database the clips of even 20 year old games that the system might recognize and match to Nintendo. Then, all the money is redirected to them.

The problem really comes from the copyright law : there is *nowhere* written that a gamer may not upload gameplay for ad-revenue. NOWHERE. So it's in NO WAY owned by Nintendo. Fact.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

Really, what the fuck is happening to the gaming industry... Companies are hosing more and more money out of their games, holding them tight into their fat little paws, while viewing their own damn customers as 'thieves' and 'entitled whiners' (as was a reaction coming from EA concerning the ME 3 ending debacle). It's depicable how consumers, how honest FANS are being treated nowadays. But as long as we keep on throwing our cash to them, eh? Really, it fills me with disgust. Practices like these only further convince me to turn my back on big game companies and look at the upcoming indie industry. I've seen @Cheesebelly make LP videos with my own eyes. It takes a LOT of effort, trust me. You gotta find the right material, have enough time, figure out the settings to make the game and the recording software work together smoothly, you gotta buy a good microphone as to make your voice as clear as possible, even do some background research about the game itself and follow it in the media to gather enough material for your discussion on the game in-game. You gotta edit the video, cut and paste, until it all nicely fits together without lagging. LP'ers DO put effort into their work. It's like denying an art critic his money for an essay he has written on an art piece of Vincent van Gogh. Because he, of course, 'stole' from van Gogh by merely using his artwork to give an opinion. Where will we draw the line, people? How far will this go? *sigh*

Cheesebelly

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud give it 6-12 years tops and Nintendo will completely comply to the complaints of youtubers. When it comes to ad-campaigns, nowadays, youtube has the monopoly through its gamers. It's a fact. Making an ad-campaign just as successful would require MILLIONS.

This won't go anywhere at all, trust me here

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@Cheesebelly: I hope so. I've seen how long it takes to make a LP video, and I think you deserve something out of it. It's not THAT much money anyway. Oh well, I lost interest in Nintendo a long time ago already anyway... I apologize for my harsh language and swearing in my previous posts, but looking at the gaming industry nowadays, I can't help but feeling the rift between game developers and gamers is only getting bigger and bigger. It's as if gaming companies have lost their audience, which helped make them big in the first place, completely out of view. We, the gamers, have become cash cows and only should be milked for our money. The actual product delivered comes at the last point on the priority check list.

Cheesebelly

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud it's lots of effort but it's fun to do nontheless! Aside from the weird 1 year old Shadows of Amn let's play which I might complete in two or three years.

(mandatory shameless plug http://www.youtube.com/darklauron cus fudge it amiright?)

Kaltzor

Cheesebelly said:

they literally added to the youtube flag database the clips of even 20 year old games that the system might recognize and match to Nintendo.

Actually, from what I remember reading/hearing it's (for now atleast) only 3DS and Wii U games they added to the systems to reconize... Though most news sources don't seem to mention it...

Also... LPs are technically on a legal gray area, While it is free advertisement and all that... Technically one would not be allowed to place video of the game on the net, copyright law is kind of stupid like that, but when there is literally no money involved in it all, there is no reason to take action... The people Nintendo is affecting are people who are making money off of their product, indircetly but still... While copyright laws may not state anything regarding ad revenue, I'm fairly certain they state about making money off of a copyrighted product.

karnor00

I read a bit about the laws of copyright - Games and their content are owned by the company - the gameplay is owned by the player, because it's the player that shapes it. So videos of the PLAYER's gameplay are not owned by any company.

I don't think you are right about this. The game company typically has a copyright and exclusive distribution rights over the media assets of the game. Any video made of the gameplay necessarily uses those media assets which are owned by the game company.

Typically the LP videos are relying on the 'fair use' copyright exemption by claiming that the purpose of the video is to provide commentary on the game. This hasn't really been tested in the court yet.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

And let's hope it stays out of court. There are more important things to persecute in court than some game commentary. Also, my analogy still holds: so actually gaming journalists shouldn't be paid either for their essays and videos with commentary on games. They are using original gaming content, right? They only add some words and opinions to it and they get paid for it, right? So yeah, too bad, but the whole gaming journalism industry is based on plagiarism too. Too bad for those guys! *insert troll face here*

LadyRhian

And don't forget that Overhaul and Beamdog (and companies like Good Old Games) are making money off using games they didn't create, merely updated, to make money. How dare those plagiarizers make money off Bioware!? (Tongue firmly in cheek here.) Let's follow the crazy ALL the way down the rabbit hole!

Malicron

LadyRhian said:

And don't forget that Overhaul and Beamdog (and companies like Good Old Games) are making money off using games they didn't create, merely updated, to make money. How dare those plagiarizers make money off Bioware!? (Tongue firmly in cheek here.) Let's follow the crazy ALL the way down the rabbit hole!

Thankfully, even the most litigious (read: Dickheaded) of lawyers wouldn't go after Beamdog. The same contract that hamstrings them from making the improvements to the game that so many of us want also protects them from any claim of copyright infringement. Everything Beamdog is doing is with the knowledge and consent of the intellectual property holders. If, say, Bioware were to try to change that now, and try to claim some right not in the contract, they'd be in as much trouble as Beamdog would be if they tried to change the plot of the game. Contracts go both ways, thankfully.

I know LadyRhian is aware of this, I just wanted to mention this a) for those who might be legitimately concerned and b) to show off.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

@Malicron: You get a 'like' for your honest concerning point b).

Cheesebelly

Kaltzor said:

Actually, from what I remember reading/hearing it's (for now atleast) only 3DS and Wii U games they added to the systems to reconize... Though most news sources don't seem to mention it...

Also... LPs are technically on a legal gray area, While it is free advertisement and all that... Technically one would not be allowed to place video of the game on the net, copyright law is kind of stupid like that, but when there is literally no money involved in it all, there is no reason to take action... The people Nintendo is affecting are people who are making money off of their product, indircetly but still... While copyright laws may not state anything regarding ad revenue, I'm fairly certain they state about making money off of a copyrighted product.

No doubt you are right @Kaltzor, but as I mentioned already - youtubers who aren't partnered through some network like Machinima, The Game Station, TGN or whatnot cannot legally monetize gaming videos. Those who are however, can, as the networks provide all the legal stuff inside of them. I myself am part of a network and I legally am making ad revenue out of these videos. But were I to claim them beforehand, they would easily take me to court. This way, they can only take the network to court.

But in general, many many MANY people don't have a problem with content like LPs being placed on youtube, as long as the game has been officially released. Betas can be sometimes problematic, even if it's open.

Not saying you are wrong because you aren't, but the contract us networked partners sign (that I may not disclose of course) is basically a safe harbor from legal problems. They can still flag our content, remove it or copyright claim it, which after 3 warnings may result in a ban, but usually this things happen only if you did something SERIOUSLY wrong (like placing a movie clip or song inside a video).

Also, keep in mind that Nintendo is in the right to do what they are doing - sure. But they are not gaining any fans doing it. It's really an awfully evil thing to do if you want to call it that, as it mostly abuses the faithful fans of Nintendo games. Many youtubers actually post only Nintendo content, some make a living out of it, or rather, MADE a living out of it. Because they thought Nintendo is the THE company (double 'the' to put emphasis on the sentence) - which it certainly is. Nintendo was always good at what it did, always acclaimed and always loved. But this just made lots of people HATE Nintendo.

Now people will be scared of Nintendo, and 95% of the content that was previously uploaded on youtube will never be seen again. Because of fear, Nintendo could now easily do something even more stupid. And out of fear, no one will risk it, everyone will pass off the Nintendo content, people won't see any reviews from the 'vox populi' if we want to call it that and these same people who don't trust official reviews will do what? Not buy the game.

Nintendo hurt itself more than helped. Trust me there.
We could call it a chain of events. But what do I know about it. If they are happy, I am happy. I never in my life played Nintendo games anyway.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

If I were an LP'er regularly posting LP's of Nintendo games, I'm sure I'd stop posting them too. Before you know it, you'll be involved in a court case because of having put a smiling Yoshi face at the end of one of your videos or something. And I think most people have more important things to do than listen to Nintendo's whining on how their 'intellectual property' has been 'abused'. Big companies are making more and more stupid moves just to ensure their and their control only over their customers. Dare have some fun with their products as of lately. You better pay them and shut up instead. That is where it has come to. But of course everything gets sugar-coated with PR-bull**** to make it seem the company is still in the best of interests with their audience, while actually regarding them as nothing more than walking money bags ready to be harvested.

Malicron

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud said:

But of course everything gets sugar-coated with PR-bull**** to make it seem the company is still in the best of interests with their audience, while actually regarding them as nothing more than walking money bags ready to be harvested.

I hate to sound like a typical "my college professor told me capitalism is evil!" type, but how is this any different from their usual business model? Or anyone's, for that matter? Yes, this is a bit more blatant and dickish than we've come to expect from Nintendo, but it's far from shocking, IMHO.

Mordeus

I wish there were Let's Play videos of Superman 64 before it shipped off with the "Official Nintendo Seal of Quality" stamp...