Anyone else bothered by halberds in BG2?

xzar_monty

I've played BG2 a number of times, and I've tried most of the reasonable party combinations, and there's always one thing that bothers me: halberds.

The way I see it, the game contains a surprisingly large number of decent-to-excellent halberds, but the problem is that unless charname is a fighter specializing in halberds, there's actually nobody who can use them. Everybody else has already chosen a different trajectory, and while changing course is possible, it's not an especially good idea.

So, I find and loot all these nice halberds and sell, sell, sell. It always makes me think that this particular bit wasn't planned especially well.

Anyone agree or disagree?

Millardkillmoore

Sarevok is a good choice to use halberds. Give him Ravager+6 and watch him cut through enemies like a hot knife through butter.

There really aren't many NPCs that are good with halberds in SoA though.

franco

I'm a little bothered that someone with proficiency for example in a mace still has a penalty using a club or a warhammer. I think the proficiencies ought to apply to similar weapons. The halberd should share some kind of proficiency with other weapons too. Perhaps with a spear or staff. It's also a long hafted axe.

atcDave

I often give Halberd proficiency to an archer type character, especially a Bard. Someone who uses mostly bows or crossbows, it is convenient to have them use a two handed melee weapon when they get closed on. I generally save two handed sword for tanks, and quarter staff for mages.

franco

in BGEE, Coran who is also a great archer, comes with proficiency in halberds. Very convenient for him first to melee right behind the tanks and also so he doesn't have to switch to one handed after using the bow.

CaptRory

I gave Halberds to Minsc. It wasn't a stretch to give him 2h weapon proficiencies and 2h weapon style.

Moomintroll

I do agree, I think Keldorn has a point or two in them? but the swords he has access to are generally too tempting. Short of some kind of limited randomisation of what the people you pick up are specialised in, I can't think of a solution though.

lunar

Sarevok and Minsc are the best choices.

Most other NpCs have proficiencies that make sense with their races and classes. And only pure fighters can use Halberds at all, so this disqualifies a lot ot NPCs.

Korgan-grandmaster in axes and hammers and dual wielding them
Mazzy-shortbows and shortswords to go! A good halberd is more than twice a halfling lass in size.
Valygar-he should utilise dual wielding and backstab weapons
Keldorn-Carsomyr!!
You can dual-class Yoshi into fighter and have him learn to use Halberds. It won't work too well, though.
HearDalis-he has custom shortswords and specialised in them!
Minsc is the best choice, he allready has two handed weapon++ so with six levels he can have halberd++ too, and that's the best he can learn.
Sarevok can spend 15 levels to get halberd+++++ (you have true grandmastery patch, right?) and with his two handed style, he will be a nightmare with Ravager+6! Instant death and Death bringer assaults everywhere!

elminster

Mazzy is probably your best bet I'd say. Get to Mazzy early so she only has one * in short swords and 5 * in short bows. Put proficiency *'s (points/whatever) into halberds and one into two handed weapons (you can do a second proficiency point but it only improves weapon speed so in most cases I'd say focus on the halberd proficiency).

ajwz

Halberds are typically the backup melee weapon I give to archers. Dragon's breath is pretty good.

Kaltzor

Well, Halberds in BG1/EE... Unless you go sidequesting, the first magical Halberd you get to see is one of the guys at The Iron Throne, a +2 one, which I think is the best Halberd on BG1... So while they are decent weapons, BG1 just doesn't really have them so that might be why nobody really has proficiencies for them.

Lapa

I hardly ever use halberds because of their piercing damage which is the most resisted damage type in the game. Same goes with spears.

zur312

i think halabers are OK

look at hammers 1d4+1 damage?!
daggers are 1d4 why hammer too?

daggers are made for weak mages and thief
hammers for fighters and clerics why 1d4?!

Mortianna

Dorn would also be a good candidate for specialization in halberds. With his natural 19 STR, he should be able to dual-wield them. ^.~

@Lapa -- Weren't halberds corrected in BGEE to have both slashing and piercing damage?

Quartz

franco said:

I'm a little bothered that someone with proficiency for example in a mace still has a penalty using a club or a warhammer. I think the proficiencies ought to apply to similar weapons. The halberd should share some kind of proficiency with other weapons too. Perhaps with a spear or staff. It's also a long hafted axe.

Like good ol' BG1 Vanilla. Aww yeah.

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lunar

zur312 said:

i think halabers are OK

look at hammers 1d4+1 damage?!
daggers are 1d4 why hammer too?

daggers are made for weak mages and thief
hammers for fighters and clerics why 1d4?!

Warhammers are not sledgehammers. A sledgehammer will do massive damage, true, but is not meant for fighting, since they are so heavy and unwieldy. Warhammers are more elegant and they are still better than a dagger, statisticaly:1d4+1 is better than 1d4. A dagger can cause a tiny scratch or mere glancing blow, thus has a minimum damage of 1. Warhammer has minimum damage of 2, it transfers the impact better. Plus, they are crushing weapons which are highly effective against heavy armors of most kinds. 'The surface of the armour was now as hard as the edge of a blade, so a blade tended to ricochet. Swords, or the blade of a battleaxe, were likely only to give a glancing blow, losing much of the impact, especially on the high curvature of the helmet. The war hammer could deliver the full force to the target.' (Taken from Wikipedia) So swords, axes and daggers have negative to hit modifiers against heavily armored targets, while warhammer is better.

CoM_Solaufein

I'm not bothered by halberds. I rarely use them. Its not the most logical of weapons for adventuring. Its a weapon for warfare not adventuring.

Pecca

@Lapa: They are now piercing and slashing. Always a better modifier is used.

Aasimar069

lunar said:

Sarevok and Minsc are the best choices.

Most other NpCs have proficiencies that make sense with their races and classes. And only pure fighters can use Halberds at all, so this disqualifies a lot ot NPCs.

Korgan-grandmaster in axes and hammers and dual wielding them
Mazzy-shortbows and shortswords to go! A good halberd is more than twice a halfling lass in size.
Valygar-he should utilise dual wielding and backstab weapons
Keldorn-Carsomyr!!
You can dual-class Yoshi into fighter and have him learn to use Halberds. It won't work too well, though.
HearDalis-he has custom shortswords and specialised in them!
Minsc is the best choice, he allready has two handed weapon++ so with six levels he can have halberd++ too, and that's the best he can learn.
Sarevok can spend 15 levels to get halberd+++++ (you have true grandmastery patch, right?) and with his two handed style, he will be a nightmare with Ravager+6! Instant death and Death bringer assaults everywhere!

Mazzy and the longsword Angurvadal +5 is in fact pure win ;-)

Do not spend more points in shortswords ;-)

Permidion_Stark

I never use halberds at all. They just don't seem very heroic. I'm a "swords for everyone!" kind of guy.

CaptRory

Permidion_Stark said:

I never use halberds at all. They just don't seem very heroic. I'm a "swords for everyone!" kind of guy.

Minsc!? Is that you!?

ZanathKariashi

@Franco

Technically, you are supposed to be able to buy proficiency for an entire weapon sub-group (almost identical to the version BG1(Vanilla) used), except it costs 2 pips per group...and you CANNOT specialize or GM, it just gives proficiency in those weapons, nothing else. If you want to specialize or GM you have to spend the points on the specific weapon type you want to Specialize/GM.

So if you bought blunt (Mace, Staff, Club, hammer, flail, morningstar), it would cost 2 pips and you could use all 6 proficiently (saving 4 pips)....but if you want to specialize in hammers, you have to spend an additional** in hammer specifically as well (total of 4 pips spent).

And technically....if you had proficiency in a similar type of weapon to the one you're using, you only suffered half the penalty for non-proficiency. (which is actually implemented...sort of...fighters only suffer a -1 penalty for non-proficiency, when they're actually supposed to suffer a -2).

atcDave

Zanath all proficiency rules in 2E are optional, the whole chapter on them is tagged optional. There is no "technically".

BelgarathMTH

franco said:

I'm a little bothered that someone with proficiency for example in a mace still has a penalty using a club or a warhammer. I think the proficiencies ought to apply to similar weapons. The halberd should share some kind of proficiency with other weapons too. Perhaps with a spear or staff. It's also a long hafted axe.

In vanilla BG1, the weapons proficiency system was much as you describe. Sword proficiency covered all swords, blunt weapon proficiency covered all blunt weapons, etc.

The Tweaks mod has a component to restore the BG1 weapons proficiency system, and I used to activate that on a lot of my setups. The original didn't have any weapons styles or dual wielding, but BG Tweaks gives you an option to "use BG1 weapons proficiencies with weapons styles".

The choices you get from mods are why so many people are sticking to their original BG Tutu or BGT setups.

Cheesebelly

The matter of halberds for me isn't on who can use them (effectively, anyone could really, as long as you spend some specialization points in them) - my BIG problem is that they are piercing weapons. Now I don't know about you, but if you ever saw a halberd, you'd know that piercing is just one option to the weapon. The more prominent option is certainly a "slash attack" rather than a "thrust" one that is more common to spear or pikes.

And wherever we look, polearms were basically a mix between spears and weapons. Halberds had an axe-like head, Bec de Corbin and Lucerne Hammers had hammer heads, there were even sword shafts like the naginata! :P

Now I do realize that we are in a fantasy setting, but seriously, I really dislike piercing weapons especially because 95% of the game seems resistant to them. "Aww, you wanna go poky poke? WELL BUMMER!" Is this really intended by DnD?

ajwz

The reason they aren't selected as the main choice of weaponry for most fighter types is that the available great swords are much more powerful and much more numerous and available much earlier on than the available halberds.

Pecca

@Cheesebelly: As I said few comments above, halberds might cause both piercing and slashing, with the one which is better in the situation being used.

Gish

I thought to make a cavilier back then. I figured since I can only specialize I could use a variety of two handers. I used ravager but holy avenger was to good not to keep equipped

Gish

If they'd make more variety of good weapons for it more would pick them. I remember laughing at the description of katana when I first got bg2. They understated how rare good magic katanas were. I said to my pal "so why even freakin add them if you aren't actually going to ADD them?"

bbear

There should be a fighter kit dedicated to 2 handed weapons. The kit should address the lower apr and provides small bonuses.

Advantages:
+1 hit, +1 dmg using a 2 handed weapon (halberds, spears, staffs, 2 handed swords)
+1/2 additional attack at level 10

Disadvantages:
-Can only be proficient in other weapons
-More susceptible against arrows/bolts/ranged weapons (-2 AC penalty)