Since there's not much we as consumers can do, I just work overtime. Passes the time until we hear an update and/or release and I won't want to work it anyways when/if the patch is released.
If this is frustrating for you guys, imagine how frustrating it must be for us.
...Probably going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but I feel the need to get this off my chest. This would be much less frustrating if you hadn't advertised “Improved multiplayer support with connectivity between all platforms” when it’s clear that there was nothing improved about it at all. If anything its worse, and I still have to jump through the same hoops that I had to when the game was first released, with the improved experience of having to teach people how to forward ports. And then it still only works if you use the sacramental oils and pray feverishly to the Machine God named Hamachi. Saying that it’s being worked on isn’t any comfort to the people who were suckered into getting the game because they wanted to play with their friends.
I appreciate all the time and effort that has gone into improving the Baldur’s Gate experience, from the New NPC’s to noticeably improve quick saving, and all number of small improvements in-between. But let’s be honest here, there’s nothing improved about the multiplayer experience. We keep getting “soon”, or “when it’s done”, and an assortment of other excuses. I understand that the code is old, but don’t advertise something you aren’t delivering at launch. If this were any other game, this product would be a laughing stock. Hell, the last game that did that IS a laughing stock. Anyone remember “The War Z” ?
@Narcissist That's been addressed in numerous threads--the note about improved multiplayer was written before it became clear that multiplayer wouldn't see the enhancements we wanted before release. The note has since been taken down from our websites (although that's small consolation to anyone who had already purchased the game expecting the multiplayer support to be improved).
It's no wonder, then, why they've stopped developing anything related to this game...they have no way to get paid for it...and no legal way to fight that payment either.
Keep in mind the only company making any money off of this right now is NOT the company that produced it. THAT smells bad. --Illydth
1. While I can understand this when it comes to BG2:EE, we paid for BG:EE already, and not being able to make more sales should not withhold the release of the patch, especially since on some systems (some Intel GPUs) the game is broken. Of course, I know there may be other, legal, reasons, but this argument "we can't sell more so we won't fix what we already sold" does not stand.
2. Truth be told the company that produced it is Bioware, what Overhaul added (including numerous new bugs) was such a small portion of the original code that I do not see anything bad in original right holders being able to sell it still.
Concluding - I do not believe in absolutes, and in all probability both Atari and Beamdog are at fault.
Why I have trouble believing in possibility of solving current issues? True, devs were saying something about "it's not a question if it will be solved, but when", but then again, they give us 4-months of delay, not implemented some features that should have been implemented (in BG1 you don't have to do workaround for soundsets, not to mention lack of some promised features), ship BG:EE in a state in which I couldn't make game to work until like 2-patches...
Honestly, I can understand why for we should just all chill out on it. I work food court in a casino and know what it's like to get asked the same questions, multiple times a day, that are questions that to us, seem stupid to ask. Like for instance "Where's the napkins?" "Four foot away from you, right there." Then here we are "When's BG:EE patch going to be released?" "Whenever our bosses tell us it is. Idk what you expect, we WANT you to get the game, so we can keep our jobs. So we're going to let you know when it's out." They are basically having to answer the same question, everyday. Where I work though it's a bunch of gambling addicts that don't seem to be in anyway intellectual. Oh wait, the internet's users are stupider then that... NEVERMIND :P
@Dee If it's already been addressed, then I apologies for beating a dead horse. The thing that prompted me to even comment on it, is the fact that that particular quote is still on BGEE's Amazon and Steam pages.
And while I'm not sure if you can still actually buy the game from those distributes, although it looks likely, I just can't get that nagging feeling out of my head that someone else is going to buy it for the same reason that I did, and they're going to be disappointed.
BG and BG II being enhanced and rereleased is seriously my dream come true! This game was my childhood and I still to this day claim it to be the greatest game I've ever played. When I found out it was released on iPad I was so excited I peed a little. Then when I couldn't buy it cause it was taken down I wanted to cry.. I Just wanted to say that I'm manifesting all of my positive energy and vibes for you guys working on this series!! I hope, beyond hope, that you're able to resolve these issues soon and everything works out well for y'all. And BG2EE!! OMG yes pleeease!!! Just wanted to send my respect and support. If there is anything we fans can do, let us know! If BG 3 ever happened... no it's too good to be true. I'll focus on hoping for 1 & 2 EE for now!
And while I'm not sure if you can still actually buy the game from those distributes, although it looks likely, I just can't get that nagging feeling out of my head that someone else is going to buy it for the same reason that I did, and they're going to be disappointed.
Unfortunately, both links are for the Steam version. That would be Atari's responsibility, Valve and Amazon to a certain extent (any outlet that sells something is responsible for the description to a certain degree, and false advertising is a big thing). Any disappointment regarding incorrect or false advertising from those locations should be reported to those outlets.
Perhaps someone could contact Steam and Amazon sales and report/ask that the line(s) in question be removed, to more adequately mirror the developers' site?
I think that we are pushing things too far with the various 'when?', 'come on, you are not updating the game', 'you lied' (I'm paraphrasing), etc. questions/comments. That part of the situation that is facing us is simple: we are not getting any updates on the game, both informational about the Issue and in-game, aka patches. Developers and support guys have told us everything we can know right now. So all it's frozen until further notice.
I am for speculations and hypotheses/theories about what happens/ed but wanting dialogue from the guys is just too much. Every nagging question directed to them about the status, if doing something, it is putting pressure on them, nothing else. I know it's frustrating from personal experience. You just cannot do anything about it, you just soak it in and it frustrates you. And I'm also pretty sure the guys really want to fix/improve the game as they have promised/envisioned.
Sorry, for the rant, but I wanted to say this. Have some respect. And please, continue with the speculations and theories
It's no wonder, then, why they've stopped developing anything related to this game...they have no way to get paid for it...and no legal way to fight that payment either.
Keep in mind the only company making any money off of this right now is NOT the company that produced it. THAT smells bad. --Illydth
1. While I can understand this when it comes to BG2:EE, we paid for BG:EE already, and not being able to make more sales should not withhold the release of the patch, especially since on some systems (some Intel GPUs) the game is broken. Of course, I know there may be other, legal, reasons, but this argument "we can't sell more so we won't fix what we already sold" does not stand.
2. Truth be told the company that produced it is Bioware, what Overhaul added (including numerous new bugs) was such a small portion of the original code that I do not see anything bad in original right holders being able to sell it still.
Concluding - I do not believe in absolutes, and in all probability both Atari and Beamdog are at fault.
It's a pleasure to deal with level headed argument instead of "OMGZORS! YOU SUCK!" Thanks!
Re: Continuing Work (#1): -------------------------------------------- BeamDog has been asked to take down their distribution methods. It's a truism that this isn't "requested" this was "required". Legally you either have distribution rights for a game or you do not have them. You can either legally release something like this, or you cannot. If Atari can force them to stop releasing the game for sales, it's not legal for them to release patches for the game either. Conversely, if they were capable of releasing patches for the game, they would be legally allowed to SELL the game through the same channels as they distributed the patches.
To be more clear, to WORK ON the game, BeamDog needed Hasbro's Support and allowance...they have that, and work, whether on BG1 patches/enhancements or BG2:EE would be legal for Overhaul to do.
However, given that Atari was able to legally force BeamDog to stop SELLING BG:EE, Legally, BeamDog no longer (for whatever reason) has the right to RELEASE anything they do...whether BG:EE Patches, or BG2:EE.
Perhaps the better way of saying "We're not making money so we're not continuing work" would be "We aren't capable of delivering anything we do to anyone who wants it, so we're having to work on something else that we CAN release."
Further to this, lets ignore doing all the work so someone else can profit off of it (which is what would happen were BeamDog to release a patch to Atari to make available to Steam customers), lets look at what would happen if they in fact DID this.
Assume steam customers got the patch that they could NOT distribute to iPad or BeamDog Client users...now the versions are off again and multi-player no longer works...breaking a piece of the game they've been lambasted on these forums for breaking in the past. Further, lets assume something else is broken with the updated patch: Who's going to provide that support? They can't get contractors to work for free, nor developers. Then eventually they do get their rights to distribute back, but now we have two distinct branches of code: The code that was developed for Steam users and the code that has to be distributed for iPad/BeamDog users...and you're talking at least one release in a separated code set to bring both system sets back to a baseline standard...and un-syncronized support even within a single platform (you have multiple releases for PC).
That would be a COMPLETE mess.
Re: Real Producers (#2): ------------------------------------------ You're not the first nor last person to argue that this is really nothing more than the original BG + BG:Tutu, + a few additional characters and side quests thrown in.
Your line of logic, however, has some significant flaws...such as the fact that Bioware no longer exists - At least, not the BioWare that produced the engine for this game in the first place. The "BioWare" you think of today (owned by Origin, producers of Mass Effect and others) isn't the same BioWare that existed at the time BG was published. It may be the same company, but it's not owned or run by the same people. Speaking of the same people, do you realize that the BioWare that produced this game to begin with was owned (co-owned I guess) by none other than OverHaul's current owner: Trent Oster and his lead programmer. So really, whatever COMPANY you want to name the code to, Trent and the Lead Programmer here actually are the ones that PRODUCED this game to begin with. BeamDog's re-production of this software is no fluke...this isn't just a studio picking up a previously popular title to breathe new life back into it.
These are the original creators, developers and designers coming back to a game that they created, produced and breathed life into to update it so it can be enjoyed again. Not enough people either understand that or give credence to it. BeamDog isn't some hack company that obtained rights to this and decided to sluff by throwing a few mods into some old software. These are THE creators of the ORIGINAL game taking a second crack at it.
The second part of your statement: "I do not see anything bad in original right holders being able to sell it still" also holds little water.
Bioware produced BG (it no longer exists as it was since being bought out by Origin), distributed it through Black Isle Studios (also no longer exists), through a license to Interplay (you guessed it, no longer exists).
Bioware got bought out, Interplay Shut down Black Isle and then got bought out and shutdown themselves...and lost their licensing and distribution rights through a court battle to Atari to boot.
The ENTIRE original licensing, production, and distribution scheme from the creator of this game all the way up the line is completely null and void. Not a single original agreement or even original company involved IN any agreements (other than Hasbro) still exist today. NOTHING is the same as it was when this game was originally produced. NO ONE who had anything originally to do with the original BG or it's distribution still has the legal rights to do ANYTHING with it...except perhaps Hasbro...and Trent.
So when you talk about the "the company that produced it", you are either referring to entities that no longer exist (and thus can't sell anything), Hasbro (which has nothing to do with BeamDog's current troubles and never had a hand in producing or selling this software in any way) or Trent and Co. themselves.
Why I have trouble believing in possibility of solving current issues? True, devs were saying something about "it's not a question if it will be solved, but when", but then again, they give us 4-months of delay, not implemented some features that should have been implemented (in BG1 you don't have to do workaround for soundsets, not to mention lack of some promised features), ship BG:EE in a state in which I couldn't make game to work until like 2-patches...
You know, my trust is little limited by now.
@ZelgadisGW: Your trust that a legal issue, caused by an in progress Bankruptcy of a distribution partner (Atari), will be solved...
...is predicated upon a missed release date (OH HORRORS! Because BioWare, Blizzard, Activision, Bethesda, etc. etc. NEVER miss a release date right?), a game that wasn't working day one (*COUGH* World of Warcraft, Diablo III, Star Craft and a HOST of others *COUGH*), and missing features (pretty much every game produced under a deadline)...
I appreciate the argument "I won't pre-order BG2:EE when it's up for sale because I don't want my money tied up like happened with the release date snafu for BG:EE", I appreciate the argument "I'm sure not buying this game the first day it's released...I'll wait for several patches till they get things right!", I appreciate the argument "When they can show me they can actually make BG:EE work, I'll consider buying BG2:EE"...
... But "I don't believe Atari's bankruptcy will ever be solved because BeamDog was late with Baulder's Gate!"
@Illydth I don't give a damn about Bathesda and it's not like I ever do. Diablo III was working on release day in Europe, since I clearly recall playing it for 12 hours at 15th of May 2012 (the famous error 37 never haunted me). While I can agree that many games have some kind of release problems, but none has given me so much anger as BG:EE launch. Despite pre-ordring and pre-loading, I had to download 100mb that took me about 5 hours with launcher crashing over and over just to find the game completely unplayable for me. What's more, people who could actually play were complaining about ammount of bugs, in spite the fact that delay was supposed to be for the bugfixes.
Now, for the main point. You don't understand what did I mean by what I said before. Simply speaking, it's about trust. Why should I blindly trust a developer team, which not only proven to be not-so trustworthly few times before, but also isn't sharing information regarding the current issues? I'll believe in possibility of resolving said issues only if I see either some valouable information or actual effect.
In such situation, it is at least absurd to expect positivity from everyone.
Now, for the main point. You don't understand what did I mean by what I said before. Simply speaking, it's about trust. Why should I blindly trust a developer team, which not only proven to be not-so trustworthly few times before, but also isn't sharing information regarding the current issues?
You are demonstrating a lack of understanding about bankruptcy.
Point 1) Atari has filed bankruptcy. This has led to basically anybody who sells stuff for Atari without giving all the profits to Atari to have to stop selling the stuff until Atari's bankruptcy is closed (or a Motion for Relief is granted, but that's not something that a non-creditor can get).
Point 2) Atari (or more likely, the counsel representing Atari) has requested that only channels from which Atari takes a significant share of the funding remain open for distribution. This is normal for business bankruptcy.
Point 3) Beamdog is not a subsidiary of Atari and cannot legally speak on behalf of Atari, and would likely get their asses sued off if they tried. What they will know is going to be limited to begin with, and what they can release publicly about Atari's legal issues are going to be even more limited.
Yes, probably I don't. I could have did my research, but then again it's not worth neither my time or nerves. As much as insightful you might be, the fact remains: there is nothing that indicates that anything will change anytime soon.
If, in the end, everything will go wrong, at least I won't be dissapointed.
lol Holy god, how many times, and in how many different ways, do people need to hear that Beamdog CAN'T SAY ANYTHING. About what's going on, about the timetable for patch release, about ANYTHING.
Actually, quite a lot of people were expecting some kind of news after Atari auction happened week ago. (Somehow this auction sounded like a milestone in this case). Even if the news was "nothing new to report".
Here is an article from IGN regarding the Atari auction - sadly nothing about BG, not even in the comment section. So yes - nothing new under the sun we must remain calm and hope for the best.
I'm beginning to think that this whole issue Beamdog has with releasing this patch and proceeding with BG2EE has nothing to do with Atari auction. I'm not so sure if they'll manage to work this out after all . Lack of new info lately is very annoying and I'm wondering if they screw something on contractual level that they cannot solve. Don't want to sound pesimistic but that's the way my mind processing this mess at the moment.
I think we said somewhere that the auction had nothing to do with the issues we're trying to resolve, so you're right about that.
I'm still optimistic, though; I know it's hard to not know anything, but we're doing everything we can to get back to a point where we can show you stuff.
@Dee just please tell us is there any progress at all since this whole issue started? Or maybe you are still at the same spot as month ago and there is a deadlock in this matter.
Comments
I appreciate all the time and effort that has gone into improving the Baldur’s Gate experience, from the New NPC’s to noticeably improve quick saving, and all number of small improvements in-between. But let’s be honest here, there’s nothing improved about the multiplayer experience. We keep getting “soon”, or “when it’s done”, and an assortment of other excuses. I understand that the code is old, but don’t advertise something you aren’t delivering at launch. If this were any other game, this product would be a laughing stock. Hell, the last game that did that IS a laughing stock. Anyone remember “The War Z” ?
That's been addressed in numerous threads--the note about improved multiplayer was written before it became clear that multiplayer wouldn't see the enhancements we wanted before release. The note has since been taken down from our websites (although that's small consolation to anyone who had already purchased the game expecting the multiplayer support to be improved).
2. Truth be told the company that produced it is Bioware, what Overhaul added (including numerous new bugs) was such a small portion of the original code that I do not see anything bad in original right holders being able to sell it still.
Concluding - I do not believe in absolutes, and in all probability both Atari and Beamdog are at fault.
You know, my trust is little limited by now.
If it's already been addressed, then I apologies for beating a dead horse. The thing that prompted me to even comment on it, is the fact that that particular quote is still on BGEE's Amazon and Steam pages.
http://www.amazon.com/video-games/dp/B00B1VJZNK
http://store.steampowered.com/app/228280/
And while I'm not sure if you can still actually buy the game from those distributes, although it looks likely, I just can't get that nagging feeling out of my head that someone else is going to buy it for the same reason that I did, and they're going to be disappointed.
Go Get 'em Guys! We support you!!
Perhaps someone could contact Steam and Amazon sales and report/ask that the line(s) in question be removed, to more adequately mirror the developers' site?
I am for speculations and hypotheses/theories about what happens/ed but wanting dialogue from the guys is just too much. Every nagging question directed to them about the status, if doing something, it is putting pressure on them, nothing else. I know it's frustrating from personal experience. You just cannot do anything about it, you just soak it in and it frustrates you. And I'm also pretty sure the guys really want to fix/improve the game as they have promised/envisioned.
Sorry, for the rant, but I wanted to say this. Have some respect. And please, continue with the speculations and theories
Re: Continuing Work (#1):
--------------------------------------------
BeamDog has been asked to take down their distribution methods. It's a truism that this isn't "requested" this was "required". Legally you either have distribution rights for a game or you do not have them. You can either legally release something like this, or you cannot. If Atari can force them to stop releasing the game for sales, it's not legal for them to release patches for the game either. Conversely, if they were capable of releasing patches for the game, they would be legally allowed to SELL the game through the same channels as they distributed the patches.
To be more clear, to WORK ON the game, BeamDog needed Hasbro's Support and allowance...they have that, and work, whether on BG1 patches/enhancements or BG2:EE would be legal for Overhaul to do.
However, given that Atari was able to legally force BeamDog to stop SELLING BG:EE, Legally, BeamDog no longer (for whatever reason) has the right to RELEASE anything they do...whether BG:EE Patches, or BG2:EE.
Perhaps the better way of saying "We're not making money so we're not continuing work" would be "We aren't capable of delivering anything we do to anyone who wants it, so we're having to work on something else that we CAN release."
Further to this, lets ignore doing all the work so someone else can profit off of it (which is what would happen were BeamDog to release a patch to Atari to make available to Steam customers), lets look at what would happen if they in fact DID this.
Assume steam customers got the patch that they could NOT distribute to iPad or BeamDog Client users...now the versions are off again and multi-player no longer works...breaking a piece of the game they've been lambasted on these forums for breaking in the past. Further, lets assume something else is broken with the updated patch: Who's going to provide that support? They can't get contractors to work for free, nor developers. Then eventually they do get their rights to distribute back, but now we have two distinct branches of code: The code that was developed for Steam users and the code that has to be distributed for iPad/BeamDog users...and you're talking at least one release in a separated code set to bring both system sets back to a baseline standard...and un-syncronized support even within a single platform (you have multiple releases for PC).
That would be a COMPLETE mess.
Re: Real Producers (#2):
------------------------------------------
You're not the first nor last person to argue that this is really nothing more than the original BG + BG:Tutu, + a few additional characters and side quests thrown in.
Your line of logic, however, has some significant flaws...such as the fact that Bioware no longer exists - At least, not the BioWare that produced the engine for this game in the first place. The "BioWare" you think of today (owned by Origin, producers of Mass Effect and others) isn't the same BioWare that existed at the time BG was published. It may be the same company, but it's not owned or run by the same people. Speaking of the same people, do you realize that the BioWare that produced this game to begin with was owned (co-owned I guess) by none other than OverHaul's current owner: Trent Oster and his lead programmer. So really, whatever COMPANY you want to name the code to, Trent and the Lead Programmer here actually are the ones that PRODUCED this game to begin with.
These are the original creators, developers and designers coming back to a game that they created, produced and breathed life into to update it so it can be enjoyed again. Not enough people either understand that or give credence to it. BeamDog isn't some hack company that obtained rights to this and decided to sluff by throwing a few mods into some old software. These are THE creators of the ORIGINAL game taking a second crack at it.
The second part of your statement: "I do not see anything bad in original right holders being able to sell it still" also holds little water.
Bioware produced BG (it no longer exists as it was since being bought out by Origin), distributed it through Black Isle Studios (also no longer exists), through a license to Interplay (you guessed it, no longer exists).
Bioware got bought out, Interplay Shut down Black Isle and then got bought out and shutdown themselves...and lost their licensing and distribution rights through a court battle to Atari to boot.
The ENTIRE original licensing, production, and distribution scheme from the creator of this game all the way up the line is completely null and void. Not a single original agreement or even original company involved IN any agreements (other than Hasbro) still exist today. NOTHING is the same as it was when this game was originally produced. NO ONE who had anything originally to do with the original BG or it's distribution still has the legal rights to do ANYTHING with it...except perhaps Hasbro...and Trent.
So when you talk about the "the company that produced it", you are either referring to entities that no longer exist (and thus can't sell anything), Hasbro (which has nothing to do with BeamDog's current troubles and never had a hand in producing or selling this software in any way) or Trent and Co. themselves.
Quite the confusing mess isn't it?
...is predicated upon a missed release date (OH HORRORS! Because BioWare, Blizzard, Activision, Bethesda, etc. etc. NEVER miss a release date right?), a game that wasn't working day one (*COUGH* World of Warcraft, Diablo III, Star Craft and a HOST of others *COUGH*), and missing features (pretty much every game produced under a deadline)...
I appreciate the argument "I won't pre-order BG2:EE when it's up for sale because I don't want my money tied up like happened with the release date snafu for BG:EE", I appreciate the argument "I'm sure not buying this game the first day it's released...I'll wait for several patches till they get things right!", I appreciate the argument "When they can show me they can actually make BG:EE work, I'll consider buying BG2:EE"...
... But "I don't believe Atari's bankruptcy will ever be solved because BeamDog was late with Baulder's Gate!"
is ridiculous.
<.<
Edit: Cameron on not having a name anymore.
I don't give a damn about Bathesda and it's not like I ever do. Diablo III was working on release day in Europe, since I clearly recall playing it for 12 hours at 15th of May 2012 (the famous error 37 never haunted me). While I can agree that many games have some kind of release problems, but none has given me so much anger as BG:EE launch. Despite pre-ordring and pre-loading, I had to download 100mb that took me about 5 hours with launcher crashing over and over just to find the game completely unplayable for me. What's more, people who could actually play were complaining about ammount of bugs, in spite the fact that delay was supposed to be for the bugfixes.
Now, for the main point. You don't understand what did I mean by what I said before. Simply speaking, it's about trust. Why should I blindly trust a developer team, which not only proven to be not-so trustworthly few times before, but also isn't sharing information regarding the current issues? I'll believe in possibility of resolving said issues only if I see either some valouable information or actual effect.
In such situation, it is at least absurd to expect positivity from everyone.
Point 1) Atari has filed bankruptcy. This has led to basically anybody who sells stuff for Atari without giving all the profits to Atari to have to stop selling the stuff until Atari's bankruptcy is closed (or a Motion for Relief is granted, but that's not something that a non-creditor can get).
Point 2) Atari (or more likely, the counsel representing Atari) has requested that only channels from which Atari takes a significant share of the funding remain open for distribution. This is normal for business bankruptcy.
Point 3) Beamdog is not a subsidiary of Atari and cannot legally speak on behalf of Atari, and would likely get their asses sued off if they tried. What they will know is going to be limited to begin with, and what they can release publicly about Atari's legal issues are going to be even more limited.
If, in the end, everything will go wrong, at least I won't be dissapointed.
*Phew* I think it has passed.
Bankruptcy is shit, I think we can all agree on that at least.
Patience, people.
Here is an article from IGN regarding the Atari auction - sadly nothing about BG, not even in the comment section. So yes - nothing new under the sun we must remain calm and hope for the best.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/23/auctioned-atari-ips-won-by-wargaming-rebellion-and-stardock
I'm still optimistic, though; I know it's hard to not know anything, but we're doing everything we can to get back to a point where we can show you stuff.