4th Edition Screws Over the Throne of Bhaal Endings
Malicron
Member Posts: 629
(I posted a shorter version of this as a reply earlier this week, but I felt it deserved to be a topic.)
I was on the Forgotten Realms Wiki the other day and realized something rather depressing, namely that the Spellplague, the massive cataclysm WotC used to justify the change from 3.5 to 4e in-universe, hit only 26 years after the events of Throne of Bhaal. Now, on the face of it, this seems to be nothing but a bit of trivia, until you think about the consequences. Any and all of the happy endings, or the less-than-totally-depressing endings at the end of Throne of Bhaal are null and void. The Spellplague caused a "ripple" in the Weave that is known to have either killed or driven irreparably mad most of the spell casters in the realms. Further, the very face of the planet was changed, with parts of the overworld collapsing into the Underdark, and various areas actually teleporting to different spots on the globe, not to mention terrible storms and earthquakes.
Now consider the fact that even Human NPCs would likely still be alive after 26 years (CHARNAME and Imoen would be 47 or 48, for example) to say nothing of the elves and dwarves. That means that they would have to go through the Spellplague. As a result, we can assume that all of the spell casters (Imoen, Aerie, Jan, etc.) would have either been killed outright or driven stark raving mad. Even if they weren't, they'd be left powerless and vulnerable in a VERY hostile world. Any heroic NPCs that survived that and the various other cataclysms would presumably end their days trying to help people through more than 100 years of chaos, likely never seeing the end of it themselves. Meanwhile, even our beloved Evil NPCs would still find themselves in a new, highly hostile world, again assuming they didn't have a mountain or something warp in on their heads.
Hell, the only endings that was not rewritten by 4e were Cernd's and Keldorn's, and that's only because they had the good sense to die before the Spellplague hit. So, no happy ending for CHARNAME and company, just more death, madness, and pain.
TL;DR @#$% you Wizards of the Coast, @#$% you.
I was on the Forgotten Realms Wiki the other day and realized something rather depressing, namely that the Spellplague, the massive cataclysm WotC used to justify the change from 3.5 to 4e in-universe, hit only 26 years after the events of Throne of Bhaal. Now, on the face of it, this seems to be nothing but a bit of trivia, until you think about the consequences. Any and all of the happy endings, or the less-than-totally-depressing endings at the end of Throne of Bhaal are null and void. The Spellplague caused a "ripple" in the Weave that is known to have either killed or driven irreparably mad most of the spell casters in the realms. Further, the very face of the planet was changed, with parts of the overworld collapsing into the Underdark, and various areas actually teleporting to different spots on the globe, not to mention terrible storms and earthquakes.
Now consider the fact that even Human NPCs would likely still be alive after 26 years (CHARNAME and Imoen would be 47 or 48, for example) to say nothing of the elves and dwarves. That means that they would have to go through the Spellplague. As a result, we can assume that all of the spell casters (Imoen, Aerie, Jan, etc.) would have either been killed outright or driven stark raving mad. Even if they weren't, they'd be left powerless and vulnerable in a VERY hostile world. Any heroic NPCs that survived that and the various other cataclysms would presumably end their days trying to help people through more than 100 years of chaos, likely never seeing the end of it themselves. Meanwhile, even our beloved Evil NPCs would still find themselves in a new, highly hostile world, again assuming they didn't have a mountain or something warp in on their heads.
Hell, the only endings that was not rewritten by 4e were Cernd's and Keldorn's, and that's only because they had the good sense to die before the Spellplague hit. So, no happy ending for CHARNAME and company, just more death, madness, and pain.
TL;DR @#$% you Wizards of the Coast, @#$% you.
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Comments
Hopefully 5e will rectify these mistakes and bad calls. I don't think many players actually loved the changes and spellplague introduced by 4e. It's like return of the time of troubles, only much worse and less cool,
edit: according to wikipedia
2E was 13 yrs then 3E
3E lasted all of 3 yrs before 3.5 then 2007 saw 4E so 7 years of 3E versions about half life of 2E.
How long will 4E last before we move to 5E. Not long. Soon it will be about 2 years between D&D 19 and 20 or whatever. Then it will be just subscribe to our newsletter and get mailed the new manuals every year. Only 125$ per year! Watch out WOW, D&D is going subscription based next - D&D next!
But 4e was a travesty all in all. It's better not to think too much about it. They had Hannali Celanil reveal that she was actually Sune all along (funny how the greater deity Corellan Larethian and father of the Elves couldn't see past this allowing her to be part of the Seldarine) or that the god of Justice murders his ally Helm over a lovers quarrel. Cyric also killed Mystra (thus bringing around the spellplague) by hitting her in the head with a stick... not joking. 4e was the result of sloppy developers... they saw the grand history of the setting and decided it was easier to scrap it all than try and familiarize themselves with it. Also, since it was the most popular DnD setting they needed an excuse to add in all the new races, classes, and features of 4e so turned it into a melting pot world by having Abeir and Toril collide. If the most popular setting has EVERYTHING that they make then more people will buy all of the books! Totally worth it so we could play as Dragonborn. Screw 30 years of adored lore, I want to be a DRAGON MAN! EFF YEAH!
Actually, divine casters were not affected by the Spellplague, so the clerics, rangers, and paladins only have to worry about the hellish post-apocalyptic landscape they now call home. Lucky them.
What they did to the Forgotten Realms and their stupid Spellplague and the culling of gods is unforgivable. To show my displeasure I hit them where it hurts, the refusal to buy any more of their products. The only thing I will buy is 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition rule books and novels at a used bookstore. They won't get any of my money.
I wasn't very pleased with this whole Spellplague thing, but it wasn't the first time that Mystra kicked the bucket, and there are always a way to headcanon a good outcome for your beloved characters. And if you can't, you can just pretend that 4th edition does not exist, being bad as it is.
Possibly even used the Spellplague to take his revenge on the other gods as well.
It's a good thing he was stopped.
IRT Topic
What I heard about 5th Edition is that they will be implementing a modular system, supporting all timelines equally. So if you want to play pre-spellplague, there'll be book for it. If you want to play in Netheril's time, there'll be books for it. And if you liked the spellplague, there'll be books for it.
It's a win-win really, they get to sell more books, gamers get to cherry-pick their favorite time period and play in that time.
I've never played 4th Edition, but I did agree with my group that if we ever were to switch, we'd stay in the current time or make up our own setting. What they did to the FR for no reason at all was just ridiculous.
Now THAT is depressing. Its only advantage is that Minsc didn't die from the Spellplague (because he never existed in the first place).
Maztica, too, possessed other sources of magic unrelated to Mystra. Which makes it even more unbelieveable that WotC went nuts (again), whiped the whole True World continent off the map, and replaced it with some cheesy "Returned Abeir". Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
If you owned something respected/unique like say the wreck of the titanic or something would you allow just anybody to do whatever they wanted with it? You'd probably lay some ground rules. Even if they are probably over protective. It's easier to give more control than to take back control after you've already given it away as well.
Trent has repeatedly stuck to the story that they can't change the plot. They can add around it but not modify existing stuff. I have not seen any exceptions ever explained or mentioned. On the other hand there has been some "maybe" type answers as to whether ascension will be integrated.
And now I'll ask people to go back to this thread's topic. If anyone is interested just open a thread about the merits of EE. Let's not derail this thread.