Skip to content

Building a better Druid...

I'm about to start one final run through of BGEE. I've decided I want to be a nature loving druid but I'm undecided on how to go about it. I'm looking forward to a being a spell slinging and elemental summoning warrior for nature. I have some ideas on how to go about making this Eco warrior and I would appreciate some insight.

One idea I'm very interested in is a Kensai->Druid with skill with a staff. The idea being I learn of the druid arts through my travels with Jaheira. I would eventually wield the Staff of the Woodlands to get some AC. I know berserker might be a better choice but it doesn't fit my idea of the character.

I also really like the Avenger as a kit. I like the idea of being truly committed to the Druidic arts. The extra spells are great and shapeshifting just seems awesome even if underpowered.

Now, what really complicates things for me is that it just feels like nothing tops the regular fighter/druid. I can't seem to justify not going with the multi. Can either of the other builds measure up?

I'd also like to add I think the best druid is actually the ranger/cleric but that seems almost like an exploit.

Thanks for any info you provide!!
«1

Comments

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Avenger easily tops Fighter/Druid in terms of being a stand-in-back spellcaster, and it excels in this role.

    Yeah, the Avenger shape-shifting is weak, but situationally the spider form can be decent. The situations are when you need 4 attacks per round (tearing down Stoneskins / Mirror Images) and you want to avoid getting stuck in your own Web spell, but using Darts can get you 3 APR at range so the spider form isn't that big a win.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Yeah, Ranger 2->Cleric 8 is an amazing build. You hit the ground running, unlocking Druid spells and Ranger pips, i.e. TWF +++ and ++ in three weapons by the end game. It is clearly an exploit, though.

    I've played an Avenger and it was decent. I didn't find the shapeshifting that powerful. Maybe I was using it wrong, though.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited June 2013
    Avenger or Totemic. (Avenger has slightly stronger spell casting, and the forms are quite good, though situational, while totemic trades shapeshifting for summons...either is pretty nice)

    Though druids aren't really spellslingers till later. Their first 3 levels of spells are crap, with healing being the most efficient use of the slots. Doom though can be quite useful for helping your other caster's spells stick better though, more of a late game concern, or vs single, high level targets.

    The Avenger gets web at 2nd level, which is a ridiculously OP spell, especially due to it's -2 save penalty, which is brutal vs low level enemies, and still useful vs higher level ones, and the early reliance on ranged weapons of low level parties (and later, their spider form, abuse it's web immunity to tear into enemies with impunity). Unlike entangle which is garbage (+3 save bonus (bad) and it doesn't stop them from attacking). Lightening bolt at 3rd is also pretty nice, but requires careful aim, and preferrably, wide open spaces...but with practice, it can deal ludicrous amounts of damage to enemies.

    I'm not at all fond of Chromatic Orb and consider it the worst spell in the game, aside from ones that are functionally useless (infravision, etc), due to that stupid +6 save bonus...even low level enemies save more then half the time and high level enemies are functionally immune, and it takes every save debuff in the game just to counter the penalty.....which means high level enemies will still save almost every time. You're much better off loading up on Dooms for first level.

    And no, a ranger/cleric IS an exploit, there's no almost about it. And whats worse is, you shouldn't have access to druid spells till 8+ Ranger, and only up to 3rd level (at 12 ranger).

    Sure, it can be legit, if you don't use any druid specific spells until your character should be capable, and never use druid spells above 3rd level.

    Simply put, no, the fighter/druid is the best (discounting R/C for being exploitative), because of %^&# implementation. A fighter druid is supposed to be bound by ALL equipment restrictions a druid has, not just weapons. They can benefit from the fighter hp, extra attacks, and thac0, but aren't supposed to use anything that a single class druid can't, since ALL their restrictions are due to their ethos, not due to a lack of training.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited June 2013
    I've heard that the sword spider form does not have Web immunity. Did they fix that in a patch?

    EDIT: Nevermind, I read in the other druid thread that they do have their Web immunity now.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    If you dual-class from Fighter at level 7, you miss out on only one Druid level (level 10) in ToTSC. Then, you literally miss out on *one* almost completely pointless level at ToB cap. Pretty much the best way to do things.

    I agree that Berserker -> Druid is just silly and dumb from a role-playing standpoint. Kensai -> Druid is a pretty interesting, fun thought I agree.

    Avenger is mainly useful for the few extra spells. The armor penalty is extremely harsh as plain Leather Armor is pretty much garbage (-2 vs. Missile and Piercing? Yuck).

    Totemic Druid, you trade godawful shapeshifting for a few summoning spells. There is literally no reason to not take this over a plain Druid.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    The avenger is one of my favourite classes! Lots of decent spells (almost a druid-mage) and decent shape shifts (spider + web; spider + vampiric touch or holy power; wyvern for poison; salamander if you just want to move really quickly). Many different kinds of abilities, none too powerful or too weak.

    Fighter/druid multi-class is not especially interesting IMO. And if you continue the PC to BG2, levelling the druid from 14 to 15 will be tortuously slow.

    Kensai -> druid sounds interesting. But of course you'll get the fighter stronghold, not the druid stronghold, in BG2, which is weird from a roleplaying perspective. (I'm a champion of nature, but now I have to run this damn castle...)

    Personally, I'd go with the avenger.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Berserker Druid is sensible if your Druid has a thing for Malar. If not, it'd get awkward.

    Just go Avenger. The appeal of chro orb is the damage. Yeah, not very much, but can disrupt spells, and save is vs the side effect. Those side effects are pretty brutal, but nobody is gonna fail that save without prep spells to soften. Funny way to kill a dragon though.

    Web is hilariously good, can end most fights before they begin. Sword spider has nice ac btw, and at cap reasonable hitting ability... And even low level will butt pound a webbed enemy. ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited June 2013
    If you read the class kit description of the Avenger, it definitely reads as the most militant druid class as far as being a full-on defender of nature and balance. For roleplaying, I don't think any kit, multi, or dual fits better.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I like Avenger because its spells help round out the druid's usual spell list. The kit would be worth it for just Web or Improved Invisibility. Web and Improved Invisibility and all the other spells? They really make druidic magic more generally useful.
  • DrayenDrayen Member Posts: 127
    I personally don't really find the avenger spells very interesting aside from chain lightning... you'd be much better off with a totemic druid, the spirit summons are pretty powerful from what i recall, and theyre immune to mind flayer mind magic since they are... spirits
  • JaggedJagged Member Posts: 105
    Drayen said:

    I personally don't really find the avenger spells very interesting aside from chain lightning... you'd be much better off with a totemic druid, the spirit summons are pretty powerful from what i recall, and theyre immune to mind flayer mind magic since they are... spirits

    I was initially interested in the totemic. How do their summons compare with the regular elementals? Don't you just hit the summon limit anyway?
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Totemic summons were initially immune to non-magical weapons (very powerful) but in BG:EE they removed this. From what I remember the summons scale with your level, becoming stronger as you do, and frankly you cannot summon anything until the later levels as any other druid class whereas the totemic druid can summon out of the gate. I am asuming that at a certain level the summons will once again be immune to non-magical weapons but I don't think it will happen until level 11+ (ie BG2:EE.) The Avenger is really the best choice for BG:EE as Improved Invisibility and Web are awesome spells and having access to them at low levels, when ranged attacks rule all, is a big advantage.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited June 2013
    GoodSteve said:

    I am asuming that at a certain level the summons will once again be immune to non-magical weapons but I don't think it will happen until level 11+ (ie BG2:EE.) The Avenger is really the best choice for BG:EE as Improved Invisibility and Web are awesome spells and having access to them at low levels, when ranged attacks rule all, is a big advantage.

    By level 10 your totemic spirits are immune to non-magical weapons.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Drayen said:

    I personally don't really find the avenger spells very interesting aside from chain lightning... you'd be much better off with a totemic druid, the spirit summons are pretty powerful from what i recall, and theyre immune to mind flayer mind magic since they are... spirits

    Personally I'm not really a fan of chain lightning. Then again its certainly better than fire seeds.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    In tob, I wonder how weird and boring it would be to dual a Druid at high level. Druids have a very low level at more or less their peak spell casting ability, so fighter could be dualled into. You would have low hp, but full thaco and good saves, gm in your preferred weapon, and hla for a fighter, probably 1 Druid hla as well.
  • JaggedJagged Member Posts: 105
    So far so good on my avenger. I just got my new forms and they are definitely interesting.

    But, I was wondering if I could pull off dual wielding. I was going to go with the poison dagger and scimitar +2. Does that crush my pretty meager thaco? Most of my melee is done in spider form.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Best spell available to any character in BG1 is Insect Plague. AoE that deals DoT, causes morale failure and disrupts spells; its literally a win button. For this reason I'd throw any combination out that doesn't include this spell if you're building for BG1.

    I like Avenger and Berserker 6/Druid 10. I don't see any issue with Berserker. Consider the rage as tapping into primal forces which is what Druid is all about. Scimitars or Staff work well for weapon choice, I've always gone for scimitar though as I like staff on a backstabbing build (cleric/thief usually).

    I don't see Druid as fitting Bg2/tob well for all sorts of reasons (setting, content, spells, abilities, high level Druid order etc).
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 927
    The cool thing about a Kensai > Druid is you probably keep the Kensai AC bonus as well as the attack/damage bonus. This could really help the spider with its 4 ApR!!

    Somebody's gotta test that!
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Klorox said:

    The cool thing about a Kensai > Druid is you probably keep the Kensai AC bonus as well as the attack/damage bonus. This could really help the spider with its 4 ApR!!

    Somebody's gotta test that!

    You can't be a kensei and an avenger at the same time so no spider form for kensei>Druid.

    Berserker gives +2 damage, attack and AC which is equivalent to level 6 kensei but adds a pile of very useful immunities on top.
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Klorox said:

    The cool thing about a Kensai > Druid is you probably keep the Kensai AC bonus as well as the attack/damage bonus. This could really help the spider with its 4 ApR!!

    Somebody's gotta test that!

    How about a Kensai -> Mage, then use Polymorph Self to turn into a spider... does that work, or is the duration too short?
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited June 2013
    Nifft said:

    Klorox said:

    The cool thing about a Kensai > Druid is you probably keep the Kensai AC bonus as well as the attack/damage bonus. This could really help the spider with its 4 ApR!!

    Somebody's gotta test that!

    How about a Kensai -> Mage, then use Polymorph Self to turn into a spider... does that work, or is the duration too short?
    works better than druid because mage>druid

    i think clerics and druids need better spells to at least compete with mages but now there is no competition

    at least they need something for level 1 and 2 spells
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    zur312 said:

    Nifft said:

    Klorox said:

    The cool thing about a Kensai > Druid is you probably keep the Kensai AC bonus as well as the attack/damage bonus. This could really help the spider with its 4 ApR!!

    Somebody's gotta test that!

    How about a Kensai -> Mage, then use Polymorph Self to turn into a spider... does that work, or is the duration too short?
    works better than druid because mage>druid

    i think clerics and druids need better spells to at least compete with mages but now there is no competition

    at least they need something for level 1 and 2 spells
    Oh here it is. I love this sort of post, seen it a dozen times. People assume because they are personally incapable of fully realizing the potential of a class that the class is garbage.

    I'll just say it: You don't know how to play Divine spellcasters. They aren't supposed to be anything like Mages, it's that simple.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    Quartz said:

    zur312 said:

    Nifft said:

    Klorox said:

    The cool thing about a Kensai > Druid is you probably keep the Kensai AC bonus as well as the attack/damage bonus. This could really help the spider with its 4 ApR!!

    Somebody's gotta test that!

    How about a Kensai -> Mage, then use Polymorph Self to turn into a spider... does that work, or is the duration too short?
    works better than druid because mage>druid

    i think clerics and druids need better spells to at least compete with mages but now there is no competition

    at least they need something for level 1 and 2 spells
    Oh here it is. I love this sort of post, seen it a dozen times. People assume because they are personally incapable of fully realizing the potential of a class that the class is garbage.

    I'll just say it: You don't know how to play Divine spellcasters. They aren't supposed to be anything like Mages, it's that simple.
    acually i know and underpowered is really good word for divine casters low level spells
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Low level clerics are boss... Command is hilarious. No save!? Ha! Some pretty inconvenient enemies don't even get that save. Web is better, but that's lvl 2... And avengers get it. Nonavenger Druids are downright awful though.

    Higher level clerics are... Special. Not useless by any means, but I'd rather have a Mage or a berserker... Or a berserker Mage. :o
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    zur312 said:

    acually i know and underpowered is really good word for divine casters low level spells

    Hahahahahahaha

    Sure thing bud.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    so are there great low level spells?
  • TinterTinter Member Posts: 152
    1st level protection from evil is actually a nice effect when you are low level. Sanctuary is always fantastic and remove fear is a decent utility spell. Doom and armour of faith are both good, but not really while you are at low levels.

    2nd level, hold person and silence 15' are both decent area disabiling spells. Draw upon holy might is obviously very nice if you do any front lining.

    3rd level, animate dead? holy smite? strength of one? Plus invisibility purge, protection from fire and dispel magic can both be useful.

    At 1st, druids make do with entangle, at second charm and/or barkskin. At 3rd, call lightning is great when outside but otherwise, well, often a lot of dispel magic.

    Theres a couple of great spells up there, sure, and plenty useful. If you don't have any wands/ aren't willing to use them yet, a low level clerics improved fighting ability, personally, is better than the 18hp mages better spell selection.

    Its druids who have the problem; I'd propose giving them access to remove fear and hold person at 1 and 2. For level 3, glitterdust is an appropriately thematic arcane spell you could give them that would be an option.

    Mages are better fairly quickly and very much so in the end, of course- I mean thats why they get two more spell levels- contingencies, time stop, abi dalzhims, planetars, clerics can't compete with this, well used or not, in raw power terms.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    If you want to be a caster Druid then to avenger kit and use those extra spells, otherwise its the front lines for the character except for some utility spells.

    Charm is handy though and plenty of places to get XP low level with call lightning.
Sign In or Register to comment.