Reroll stats until you get 18,18,18,X,16+,X. Chaotic neutral berserker - Spend all pips in scimitar/dualwield.
Dual to druid at lvl 7.
When you dual set pips to Club and Staff at lvl 1.
Look at an xp table, see how much xp you need for a druid to ding lvl 8.
Do -not- go to the lvl up screen until you have enough xp to ding 8 (stay at max lvl 3 druid up until that point)
If you do this, when you get the two extra weapon pips from Druid lvls, you get to spend them as if you were a warrior. By insta-dinging to 8 druid, you'll unlock warrior pips and such..
This way you don't have to waste precious skill pips at weapons/styles you'll never use.
Now either kill Drizzt for his scimitars or get the two +2 ones.. you'll be deadly as all hell and then some.
A full blood caster, with 18/xx Str bonus, grand mastery in arguably one of the best weapons, dual wielding, high hp, heavy armor, summons and what not? Yes please.
This configuration will eat Fighter/druids alive.. especially in late SoA, since your caster lvls will go up up up and beyond..
@Khyron seems like you're planning to make the rookie mistake of not getting 17 charisma that's needed for Druid.
It's not a bad strategy and get reacquire 1 weapon pip at druid 4 that would otherwise be wasted but no reason to sit at Druid 1 until 8 when you can level to druid 3 and then hold ... not a big difference.
If playing for BG1 I think I've settled on 6/10 being better than 7/9. If playing for BG2 then I'd play a different build (like fighter/druid)
1st level protection from evil is actually a nice effect when you are low level. Sanctuary is always fantastic and remove fear is a decent utility spell. Doom and armour of faith are both good, but not really while you are at low levels.
2nd level, hold person and silence 15' are both decent area disabiling spells. Draw upon holy might is obviously very nice if you do any front lining.
3rd level, animate dead? holy smite? strength of one? Plus invisibility purge, protection from fire and dispel magic can both be useful.
At 1st, druids make do with entangle, at second charm and/or barkskin. At 3rd, call lightning is great when outside but otherwise, well, often a lot of dispel magic.
Theres a couple of great spells up there, sure, and plenty useful. If you don't have any wands/ aren't willing to use them yet, a low level clerics improved fighting ability, personally, is better than the 18hp mages better spell selection.
Its druids who have the problem; I'd propose giving them access to remove fear and hold person at 1 and 2. For level 3, glitterdust is an appropriately thematic arcane spell you could give them that would be an option.
Mages are better fairly quickly and very much so in the end, of course- I mean thats why they get two more spell levels- contingencies, time stop, abi dalzhims, planetars, clerics can't compete with this, well used or not, in raw power terms.
and this is what i am talking about 1st level protection from evil is "nice" but not really great doom has casting 1 round so very slow the best i would say is sanctuary
holed person is not good it holds only humanoids and that is not cool
3rd level is actually great i have nothing but that is for me not "low level" anymore
Reroll stats until you get 18,18,18,X,16+,X. Chaotic neutral berserker - Spend all pips in scimitar/dualwield.
Dual to druid at lvl 7.
When you dual set pips to Club and Staff at lvl 1.
Look at an xp table, see how much xp you need for a druid to ding lvl 8.
Do -not- go to the lvl up screen until you have enough xp to ding 8 (stay at max lvl 3 druid up until that point)
If you do this, when you get the two extra weapon pips from Druid lvls, you get to spend them as if you were a warrior. By insta-dinging to 8 druid, you'll unlock warrior pips and such..
This way you don't have to waste precious skill pips at weapons/styles you'll never use.
Now either kill Drizzt for his scimitars or get the two +2 ones.. you'll be deadly as all hell and then some.
A full blood caster, with 18/xx Str bonus, grand mastery in arguably one of the best weapons, dual wielding, high hp, heavy armor, summons and what not? Yes please.
This configuration will eat Fighter/druids alive.. especially in late SoA, since your caster lvls will go up up up and beyond..
dualing at this level (in BG1)will only result in you playing 50% of the game as fighter and around 50% as druid
@zur312 Command is a beast for a lvl 1 cleric. Avengers get the best far and away 2nd level wizard spell and also barkskin, all of which you are forgetting. Sleep can be better than command, but the addition of sanctuary makes solo clerics pretty damn safe to play.
You think wrong then.. just rest in the ankheg cave. Almost every single time you rest you'll get interrupted, and 100% of those times it's an ankheg.. easy as goblin pie.
And I think you underestimate the power of druids.. ever tried the insect plague spell? Cast it on just about any caster, and he'll be dead meat.
And let's be honest.. short of spell thrust and other ward-removing spells from mages, they have no purpose in Bg1. Their power is greatly limited and in any lengthy fight you need to save spells. They are useful, yes.. but certainly nowhere near being needed or even key members to the group.
wtf is a magic missile anyway? 5D4 damage? Dorn does that in one hit.. Fireball? Great for taking out clusters of trashmobs.. any attack-effective char does that.. Hold person, hold undead? divine casters do that.. Summons? Yep, divine casters do that too..
So yeah.. skull trap and spell thrust are the redeeming qualities of mages.
So, OP, don't fret too much about how you build your druid.
Fighter/Druid or Fighter(7)->Druid, will work very well. Great attacks, great armor, good hp, very useful spells, albeit not direct damage spells in many cases.. grab yourself a scimitar or two, summon beasties to your hearts desire and banish them unnatural beasties.
If you want to play a pure druid though, I would actually suggest shapechanger kit. Once you run out of spells, you shapechange and maul things as a werewolf (which in itself is not an "amazing" melee char, but certainly on par with most melee npcs from Bg1 and all the way to late SoA/early ToB. A certain deathbringer just takes the cake at one point.. no one compares to him)
You think wrong then.. just rest in the ankheg cave. Almost every single time you rest you'll get interrupted, and 100% of those times it's an ankheg.. easy as goblin pie.
And I think you underestimate the power of druids.. ever tried the insect plague spell? Cast it on just about any caster, and he'll be dead meat.
And let's be honest.. short of spell thrust and other ward-removing spells from mages, they have no purpose in Bg1. Their power is greatly limited and in any lengthy fight you need to save spells. They are useful, yes.. but certainly nowhere near being needed or even key members to the group.
wtf is a magic missile anyway? 5D4 damage? Dorn does that in one hit.. Fireball? Great for taking out clusters of trashmobs.. any attack-effective char does that.. Hold person, hold undead? divine casters do that.. Summons? Yep, divine casters do that too..
So yeah.. skull trap and spell thrust are the redeeming qualities of mages.
So, OP, don't fret too much about how you build your druid.
Fighter/Druid or Fighter(7)->Druid, will work very well. Great attacks, great armor, good hp, very useful spells, albeit not direct damage spells in many cases.. grab yourself a scimitar or two, summon beasties to your hearts desire and banish them unnatural beasties.
If you want to play a pure druid though, I would actually suggest shapechanger kit. Once you run out of spells, you shapechange and maul things as a werewolf (which in itself is not an "amazing" melee char, but certainly on par with most melee npcs from Bg1 and all the way to late SoA/early ToB. A certain deathbringer just takes the cake at one point.. no one compares to him)
First three druid spell levels are pretty meh given the casting time for both summon insects and call lightning. Its the level 4 and up spells that are the good ones.
As for mages,
For the first half of the BGEE Sleep is a great spell. After it Glitterdust pretty well can make winning all but the rarest of battles very easy. Granted its more of a spell that sorcerers benefit from, because its rare to find in BGEE, but the only thing holding back its utility in the game is the rareness of the scroll.
Its useful especially when enemies can't see your characters and you can just hit them from a distance. Then of course there is haste and slow, two very useful spells. Emotion:hopelessness is a great 4th level spell against enemies. In BGEE Mages can pretty well turn enemies into snoozing, blind, or helpless people for the fighters in your group to mercifully kill off. Since entangle isn't great (save throws) and ranged enemies can still attack you Druids at these levels really get nothing that compares to this with the exception of web (only for avengers and mages get it too). Even then that limits what you can do unless you have free action active on your fighters or want to stick to ranged attacks.
You think wrong then.. just rest in the ankheg cave. Almost every single time you rest you'll get interrupted, and 100% of those times it's an ankheg.. easy as goblin pie.
And I think you underestimate the power of druids.. ever tried the insect plague spell? Cast it on just about any caster, and he'll be dead meat.
And let's be honest.. short of spell thrust and other ward-removing spells from mages, they have no purpose in Bg1. Their power is greatly limited and in any lengthy fight you need to save spells. They are useful, yes.. but certainly nowhere near being needed or even key members to the group.
wtf is a magic missile anyway? 5D4 damage? Dorn does that in one hit.. Fireball? Great for taking out clusters of trashmobs.. any attack-effective char does that.. Hold person, hold undead? divine casters do that.. Summons? Yep, divine casters do that too..
So yeah.. skull trap and spell thrust are the redeeming qualities of mages.
So, OP, don't fret too much about how you build your druid.
Fighter/Druid or Fighter(7)->Druid, will work very well. Great attacks, great armor, good hp, very useful spells, albeit not direct damage spells in many cases.. grab yourself a scimitar or two, summon beasties to your hearts desire and banish them unnatural beasties.
If you want to play a pure druid though, I would actually suggest shapechanger kit. Once you run out of spells, you shapechange and maul things as a werewolf (which in itself is not an "amazing" melee char, but certainly on par with most melee npcs from Bg1 and all the way to late SoA/early ToB. A certain deathbringer just takes the cake at one point.. no one compares to him)
how is insect plague low level spell?
why is there dorn? berserker/mage can tank 2 dorns but this is not thread for this
i don't know why players can accept it when they use avenger as example avneger is better because he has mage spells
@zur312 I think Avenger is used as it's a solid example. Obviously unkitted druids are weaker than kitted druids and the best druid kit to illustrate the casting power of the druid is the Avenger, ergo the Avenger kit is used as an example when referring to the casting power of a druid.
The other kits may or may not be useful. I played a Totemic Druid and was rather underwhelmed by the summons but others quite like them so ymmv. Shapeshifter kit just seems weak to me.
When I try to make a case for the Druid being a strong class in BG1 I do so with 2 examples: Avenger - great caster, probably the best caster class in BG1 - yes, better than a mage imo. Berserker/Druid - melee beast, probably the strongest build in BG1 combining potent spell casting, summons and grandmastery with scimitars.
@Khyron, I noticed another mistake in your berserker/druid build. Druids can't be chaotic neutral in BG, they have to be true neutral. Other than that and the charisma 17 requirement that someone else mentioned, it looks like an interesting build, although one that will not pay off for most people (who don't remove the 186,000 xp level cap and then farm/grind xp), until BG2.
There is no good druid. If you want to play a druid for roleplaying purposes I'd recommend the totemist since the spirit animals will serve you well all the way through Shadows of Amn. Avenger is also useful, they get really good bonus spells are no real penalty.
If you don't have your heart set on being a druid then try the ranger/cleric glitch. If you didn't know, any dual or multiclass ranger/cleric will get BOTH druid and cleric spells as spells known. If you are playing with the xp cap then dual into cleric from ranger at 2nd level. If you are playing without the xp cap then go multiclassing for the maximum benefit.
@Dragonfolk2000 I wouldn't want to miss out on the 5th level Druid spells available in Bg1 like Insect Plague and Iron Skins. Thanks but no thanks
That's the glitch actually, you can prepare and cast both druid and cleric spells.
Max level for a cleric in Bg1 is 8 (7 in a multiclass) so you only get to cast 4th level spells. Hence, no Insect Plague or Ironskins among others.
The 6/10 build also gives: CL:10 gives 15% DR from shield of faith and better dispel GM gives +1 apr and better att/dam (so equal APR to ranger/cleric multi) THAC0 is 14 (which only a level 8 warrior class can beat) Berserker rage gives immunity to all CC, +2 att/dam/AC DUHM accessible via Bhaalspawn Scimitars are a very competitive weapon More HP 6 extra spells/day (1st, 2nd, 4th, 3*5th)
Adding up the numbers the dual has: +7 attack bonus (1 better THAC0, +2 from GM, +2 from Icingdeath, +2 from rage) +7 damage (+2 from Icingdeath, +3 from GM, +2 rage) 32 HP more (if maxed rolls)
Assuming Icingdeath/Rashads Talon vs Stupifier/Ashideena (the offhand numbers are +5/+6).
Honestly a stronger build for blunt weapons is berserker 6/cleric 8 (GM Mace). I ran this build against the Druid in an SCS minimal reload game and and the Druid won (21% XP vs 15% XP).
Ranger/Cleric multi is great in Bg2 but in Bg1 it's pretty average honestly.
IMHO, ranger/cleric is as nice alternative to a fighter/druid if you want to use bludgeoning weapons instead of scimitars, but rangers need significantly more XP to level than fighters do and clerics require significantly more XP to level than druids do, and you fewer proficiencies IIRC. Dualing into cleric early (pre-7th) means you get a few more spell options for your cleric but it also means you're losing out on a lot of the pros of being a warrior class (like the extra attacks per round gained at 7th & 13th level), and in the case of BG II are going to lose access to the warrior HLAs.
Fighter dualed to druid is pretty decent in BG I because you can spec what you want, hit 7th and get your extra +1/2 attack per round (which stacks with the extra +1/2 attack gained from 2-4 points specialized) which grants you 2 attacks per round (3 if dual wielding). It also requires a lot less XP, and unless you're really wanting those extra cleric spells, you're still going to get the spells you want like Ironskins / Insect Plague. Fighter/Druid multiclass is pretty decent as well due to the lower XP requirements.
Just comparing BG I for a moment: Fighter level 7 = 64,000 XP / Ranger Level 7 = 75,000 XP Druid Level 9 = 90,000 XP / Cleric Level 9 = 225,000 XP
So... To successfully dual from Fighter 7 to Druid 9 requires 154,000 XP To successfully dual from Ranger 7 to Cleric 9 requires 300,000 XP
In the case of the Fighter, you get +1 attack per round (specialization + 7th level bump), and have access to kits that can be potent (Kensai/Druid benefits from Armor of Faith, Barkskin, and Ironskins, and applies the bonuses to hit and damage while in animal forms; Berserker grants enrage, Mageslayer grants some magic resistance and applies the casting penalty to animal attacks).
In the case of the Ranger, you get +1 attack per round (specialization + 7th level bump), have the redundant charm animal, and grant access to druid spells to your cleric half (but not actually any more slots so you'll be splitting your focus between the two disciplines). Unfortunately the only kit that lends itself to a dual-class cleric is perhaps Avenger (the +20% stealth and haste as a divine spell is really nice if you're trying to make a sort of all-in-wonder buffer; but it locks you into studded leather armor at best which is a significant downgrade for a cleric). Archer is useless (you get bonuses to weapons you cannot use a cleric), and Beastmaster would be awesome for a dedicated summoner (granting early spell access to Animal Summing I, II, and III, which makes your low-level divine spells very attractive), with the downside being you can only wield quarterstaffs and clubs (no metal weapons for you) and can only wear leather or studded leather.
They both have their perks. In BG I, I'm pretty sure that Fighter/Druid is superior to Ranger/Cleric in form and function. If you dual out of Ranger pre-7th, you don't get the APR boost, making the Fighter the superior combatant. If you do dual out at 7th, you need to wait much longer to get to 7th, much longer to regain your features, and if you're playing with an XP cap (the original cap is 89,000 XP or 161,000 XP with TOTSC) Ranger/Cleric may be outright impossible (you cannot even reach 5th level spells as a single-class cleric, let alone dual classed).
If going to BG2 I think you want multi either way to get warrior HLA's and Ranger/Cleric would undoubtedly be the better choice. Stalker 13/Cleric is an interesting choice but restricted to clubs and quarterstaves for backstabbing.
If just playing BG1 then dual berserker 6/druid 10 is the best choice (slight edge over 7/9 due to better caster level on shield of faith and dispel magic, same THAC0, more HP, more spell slots, faster return of abilities).
If going to BG2 I think you want multi either way to get warrior HLA's and Ranger/Cleric would undoubtedly be the better choice. Stalker 13/Cleric is an interesting choice but restricted to clubs and quarterstaves for backstabbing.
If just playing BG1 then dual berserker 6/druid 10 is the best choice (slight edge over 7/9 due to better caster level on shield of faith and dispel magic, same THAC0, more HP, more spell slots, faster return of abilities).
Thank you Wowo, I did mean Stalker. ^.^"
I went with the 7/9 because - unless it has been changed - the warrior classes get an extra +1/2 attack at 7th level (see charts here), and for me the extra 1/2 attack is more valuable than the +5% damage resistance from Shield of Faith (which is usually only going to be a difference in 1 point of damage from an attack, but you get a lot more HP from that 7th level of Fighter). I could be wrong but the THAC0 should be 1 point better as well (I don't see why it wouldn't be as you get -1 THAC0 for every fighter level you have, which means not counting specialization you should have a 14 THAC0 at fighter level 7 (then another +1 THAC0 if specialized and +2 THAC0 if mastered). If you dual-wield, this can result in 3 attacks per round at THAC0 12/14 before buffs, weapon modifiers, or ability scores. If you happen to be a berserker, you can knock your THAC0 in major fights down to 10/12 respectively. The Bhaalspawn Draw Upon Holy Might is really attractive here too.
Truth be told, I'm more than happy with access to 5th level spells (3 5th level spells is plenty for me, as ironskins lasts 9 attacks or 9 hours, 1-2 insect plagues bring ruin to mass enemies, and against singular powerful enemies the idea is to just throw down in melee until they cry uncle). The additional spells aren't a major concern for me since idea behind this build is to not be anchored to spamming spells to be functional (with your 3+ attacks per round and impressive combat ability you should be able to kill most enemies without using your spells and save your spells for when you need them).
But this all really comes down to difference in play styles and priorities. What is favored by one is often not favored by another (such as how I would favor the more martial approach with spells for when things get hairy, whereas you value the extra spell slots moreso than the extra 1/2 attack, THAC0, and HP, in favor of more casting). Ultimately this is a good thing, because it's nice that their is no wrong way to eat a Reese's. :P
If going to BG2 I think you want multi either way to get warrior HLA's and Ranger/Cleric would undoubtedly be the better choice. Stalker 13/Cleric is an interesting choice but restricted to clubs and quarterstaves for backstabbing.
If just playing BG1 then dual berserker 6/druid 10 is the best choice (slight edge over 7/9 due to better caster level on shield of faith and dispel magic, same THAC0, more HP, more spell slots, faster return of abilities).
Thank you Wowo, I did mean Stalker. ^.^"
I went with the 7/9 because - unless it has been changed - the warrior classes get an extra +1/2 attack at 7th level (see charts here), and for me the extra 1/2 attack is more valuable than the +5% damage resistance from Shield of Faith (which is usually only going to be a difference in 1 point of damage from an attack, but you get a lot more HP from that 7th level of Fighter). I could be wrong but the THAC0 should be 1 point better as well (I don't see why it wouldn't be as you get -1 THAC0 for every fighter level you have, which means not counting specialization you should have a 14 THAC0 at fighter level 7 (then another +1 THAC0 if specialized and +2 THAC0 if mastered). If you dual-wield, this can result in 3 attacks per round at THAC0 12/14 before buffs, weapon modifiers, or ability scores. If you happen to be a berserker, you can knock your THAC0 in major fights down to 10/12 respectively. The Bhaalspawn Draw Upon Holy Might is really attractive here too.
Truth be told, I'm more than happy with access to 5th level spells (3 5th level spells is plenty for me, as ironskins lasts 9 attacks or 9 hours, 1-2 insect plagues bring ruin to mass enemies, and against singular powerful enemies the idea is to just throw down in melee until they cry uncle). The additional spells aren't a major concern for me since idea behind this build is to not be anchored to spamming spells to be functional (with your 3+ attacks per round and impressive combat ability you should be able to kill most enemies without using your spells and save your spells for when you need them).
But this all really comes down to difference in play styles and priorities. What is favored by one is often not favored by another (such as how I would favor the more martial approach with spells for when things get hairy, whereas you value the extra spell slots moreso than the extra 1/2 attack, THAC0, and HP, in favor of more casting). Ultimately this is a good thing, because it's nice that their is no wrong way to eat a Reese's. :P
Except that 6/10 has: -same THAC0 - 14 at Druid 10 -only 3 less HP at 19 con -3 level 5 spell slots with 21 wisdom compared to only 2 on a 7/9 -3 apr dual wielding and 4 with haste compared to 3.5 for 7/9 and 4 with haste -57,000 less XP to get until you have both classes abilities -+1 to all saves
If going to BG2 I think you want multi either way to get warrior HLA's and Ranger/Cleric would undoubtedly be the better choice. Stalker 13/Cleric is an interesting choice but restricted to clubs and quarterstaves for backstabbing.
If just playing BG1 then dual berserker 6/druid 10 is the best choice (slight edge over 7/9 due to better caster level on shield of faith and dispel magic, same THAC0, more HP, more spell slots, faster return of abilities).
Thank you Wowo, I did mean Stalker. ^.^"
I went with the 7/9 because - unless it has been changed - the warrior classes get an extra +1/2 attack at 7th level (see charts here), and for me the extra 1/2 attack is more valuable than the +5% damage resistance from Shield of Faith (which is usually only going to be a difference in 1 point of damage from an attack, but you get a lot more HP from that 7th level of Fighter). I could be wrong but the THAC0 should be 1 point better as well (I don't see why it wouldn't be as you get -1 THAC0 for every fighter level you have, which means not counting specialization you should have a 14 THAC0 at fighter level 7 (then another +1 THAC0 if specialized and +2 THAC0 if mastered). If you dual-wield, this can result in 3 attacks per round at THAC0 12/14 before buffs, weapon modifiers, or ability scores. If you happen to be a berserker, you can knock your THAC0 in major fights down to 10/12 respectively. The Bhaalspawn Draw Upon Holy Might is really attractive here too.
Truth be told, I'm more than happy with access to 5th level spells (3 5th level spells is plenty for me, as ironskins lasts 9 attacks or 9 hours, 1-2 insect plagues bring ruin to mass enemies, and against singular powerful enemies the idea is to just throw down in melee until they cry uncle). The additional spells aren't a major concern for me since idea behind this build is to not be anchored to spamming spells to be functional (with your 3+ attacks per round and impressive combat ability you should be able to kill most enemies without using your spells and save your spells for when you need them).
But this all really comes down to difference in play styles and priorities. What is favored by one is often not favored by another (such as how I would favor the more martial approach with spells for when things get hairy, whereas you value the extra spell slots moreso than the extra 1/2 attack, THAC0, and HP, in favor of more casting). Ultimately this is a good thing, because it's nice that their is no wrong way to eat a Reese's. :P
Except that 6/10 has: -same THAC0 - 14 at Druid 10 -only 3 less HP at 19 con -3 level 5 spell slots with 21 wisdom compared to only 2 on a 7/9 -3 apr dual wielding and 4 with haste compared to 3.5 for 7/9 and 4 with haste -57,000 less XP to get until you have both classes abilities -+1 to all saves
Good points. I forgot that the druid THAC0 was equivalent a level 7 warrior's at level 10, so all in all I agree your method is better I think. I do have one question though, wouldn't haste bring the latter's up to 4.5 instead of a flat 4?
If going to BG2 I think you want multi either way to get warrior HLA's and Ranger/Cleric would undoubtedly be the better choice. Stalker 13/Cleric is an interesting choice but restricted to clubs and quarterstaves for backstabbing.
If just playing BG1 then dual berserker 6/druid 10 is the best choice (slight edge over 7/9 due to better caster level on shield of faith and dispel magic, same THAC0, more HP, more spell slots, faster return of abilities).
Thank you Wowo, I did mean Stalker. ^.^"
I went with the 7/9 because - unless it has been changed - the warrior classes get an extra +1/2 attack at 7th level (see charts here), and for me the extra 1/2 attack is more valuable than the +5% damage resistance from Shield of Faith (which is usually only going to be a difference in 1 point of damage from an attack, but you get a lot more HP from that 7th level of Fighter). I could be wrong but the THAC0 should be 1 point better as well (I don't see why it wouldn't be as you get -1 THAC0 for every fighter level you have, which means not counting specialization you should have a 14 THAC0 at fighter level 7 (then another +1 THAC0 if specialized and +2 THAC0 if mastered). If you dual-wield, this can result in 3 attacks per round at THAC0 12/14 before buffs, weapon modifiers, or ability scores. If you happen to be a berserker, you can knock your THAC0 in major fights down to 10/12 respectively. The Bhaalspawn Draw Upon Holy Might is really attractive here too.
Truth be told, I'm more than happy with access to 5th level spells (3 5th level spells is plenty for me, as ironskins lasts 9 attacks or 9 hours, 1-2 insect plagues bring ruin to mass enemies, and against singular powerful enemies the idea is to just throw down in melee until they cry uncle). The additional spells aren't a major concern for me since idea behind this build is to not be anchored to spamming spells to be functional (with your 3+ attacks per round and impressive combat ability you should be able to kill most enemies without using your spells and save your spells for when you need them).
But this all really comes down to difference in play styles and priorities. What is favored by one is often not favored by another (such as how I would favor the more martial approach with spells for when things get hairy, whereas you value the extra spell slots moreso than the extra 1/2 attack, THAC0, and HP, in favor of more casting). Ultimately this is a good thing, because it's nice that their is no wrong way to eat a Reese's. :P
Except that 6/10 has: -same THAC0 - 14 at Druid 10 -only 3 less HP at 19 con -3 level 5 spell slots with 21 wisdom compared to only 2 on a 7/9 -3 apr dual wielding and 4 with haste compared to 3.5 for 7/9 and 4 with haste -57,000 less XP to get until you have both classes abilities -+1 to all saves
Good points. I forgot that the druid THAC0 was equivalent a level 7 warrior's at level 10, so all in all I agree your method is better I think. I do have one question though, wouldn't haste bring the latter's up to 4.5 instead of a flat 4?
In theory yes but in practice haste will only go up to the next integer, or at least that has been my experience.
Comments
Reroll stats until you get 18,18,18,X,16+,X.
Chaotic neutral berserker - Spend all pips in scimitar/dualwield.
Dual to druid at lvl 7.
When you dual set pips to Club and Staff at lvl 1.
Look at an xp table, see how much xp you need for a druid to ding lvl 8.
Do -not- go to the lvl up screen until you have enough xp to ding 8 (stay at max lvl 3 druid up until that point)
If you do this, when you get the two extra weapon pips from Druid lvls, you get to spend them as if you were a warrior. By insta-dinging to 8 druid, you'll unlock warrior pips and such..
This way you don't have to waste precious skill pips at weapons/styles you'll never use.
Now either kill Drizzt for his scimitars or get the two +2 ones.. you'll be deadly as all hell and then some.
A full blood caster, with 18/xx Str bonus, grand mastery in arguably one of the best weapons, dual wielding, high hp, heavy armor, summons and what not? Yes please.
This configuration will eat Fighter/druids alive.. especially in late SoA, since your caster lvls will go up up up and beyond..
It's not a bad strategy and get reacquire 1 weapon pip at druid 4 that would otherwise be wasted but no reason to sit at Druid 1 until 8 when you can level to druid 3 and then hold ... not a big difference.
If playing for BG1 I think I've settled on 6/10 being better than 7/9. If playing for BG2 then I'd play a different build (like fighter/druid)
1st level protection from evil is "nice" but not really great
doom has casting 1 round so very slow
the best i would say is sanctuary
holed person is not good
it holds only humanoids and that is not cool
3rd level is actually great i have nothing but that is for me not "low level" anymore
and many players don't go all "powergaming"
that is avenger not pure druid and the sole reason why avenger is soo f good (he uses spells from mage)
command is maybe good when everything just goes to sleep but not for the whole game and cerainly not for the BG2
maybe i just didn't explain it in the right way
mages cast spells that are usefull in both games early and late game
but clerics and druids are very limited
remember killing dragons with chromatic orb?
magic missle in sequencers
this is power of mage from level 1
And I think you underestimate the power of druids.. ever tried the insect plague spell? Cast it on just about any caster, and he'll be dead meat.
And let's be honest.. short of spell thrust and other ward-removing spells from mages, they have no purpose in Bg1. Their power is greatly limited and in any lengthy fight you need to save spells.
They are useful, yes.. but certainly nowhere near being needed or even key members to the group.
wtf is a magic missile anyway? 5D4 damage? Dorn does that in one hit..
Fireball? Great for taking out clusters of trashmobs.. any attack-effective char does that..
Hold person, hold undead? divine casters do that..
Summons? Yep, divine casters do that too..
So yeah.. skull trap and spell thrust are the redeeming qualities of mages.
So, OP, don't fret too much about how you build your druid.
Fighter/Druid or Fighter(7)->Druid, will work very well. Great attacks, great armor, good hp, very useful spells, albeit not direct damage spells in many cases.. grab yourself a scimitar or two, summon beasties to your hearts desire and banish them unnatural beasties.
If you want to play a pure druid though, I would actually suggest shapechanger kit.
Once you run out of spells, you shapechange and maul things as a werewolf (which in itself is not an "amazing" melee char, but certainly on par with most melee npcs from Bg1 and all the way to late SoA/early ToB. A certain deathbringer just takes the cake at one point.. no one compares to him)
As for mages,
For the first half of the BGEE Sleep is a great spell. After it Glitterdust pretty well can make winning all but the rarest of battles very easy. Granted its more of a spell that sorcerers benefit from, because its rare to find in BGEE, but the only thing holding back its utility in the game is the rareness of the scroll.
Its useful especially when enemies can't see your characters and you can just hit them from a distance. Then of course there is haste and slow, two very useful spells. Emotion:hopelessness is a great 4th level spell against enemies. In BGEE Mages can pretty well turn enemies into snoozing, blind, or helpless people for the fighters in your group to mercifully kill off. Since entangle isn't great (save throws) and ranged enemies can still attack you Druids at these levels really get nothing that compares to this with the exception of web (only for avengers and mages get it too). Even then that limits what you can do unless you have free action active on your fighters or want to stick to ranged attacks.
why is there dorn? berserker/mage can tank 2 dorns but this is not thread for this
i don't know why players can accept it when they use avenger as example
avneger is better because he has mage spells
i never said druids are weak or something
The other kits may or may not be useful. I played a Totemic Druid and was rather underwhelmed by the summons but others quite like them so ymmv. Shapeshifter kit just seems weak to me.
When I try to make a case for the Druid being a strong class in BG1 I do so with 2 examples:
Avenger - great caster, probably the best caster class in BG1 - yes, better than a mage imo.
Berserker/Druid - melee beast, probably the strongest build in BG1 combining potent spell casting, summons and grandmastery with scimitars.
english is not my first language
64k xp on fighter means you still get 97k xp for the druid, which is enough for lvl 9 and 5th level spells..
If you don't have your heart set on being a druid then try the ranger/cleric glitch. If you didn't know, any dual or multiclass ranger/cleric will get BOTH druid and cleric spells as spells known. If you are playing with the xp cap then dual into cleric from ranger at 2nd level. If you are playing without the xp cap then go multiclassing for the maximum benefit.
The 6/10 build also gives:
CL:10 gives 15% DR from shield of faith and better dispel
GM gives +1 apr and better att/dam (so equal APR to ranger/cleric multi)
THAC0 is 14 (which only a level 8 warrior class can beat)
Berserker rage gives immunity to all CC, +2 att/dam/AC
DUHM accessible via Bhaalspawn
Scimitars are a very competitive weapon
More HP
6 extra spells/day (1st, 2nd, 4th, 3*5th)
Adding up the numbers the dual has:
+7 attack bonus (1 better THAC0, +2 from GM, +2 from Icingdeath, +2 from rage)
+7 damage (+2 from Icingdeath, +3 from GM, +2 rage)
32 HP more (if maxed rolls)
Assuming Icingdeath/Rashads Talon vs Stupifier/Ashideena (the offhand numbers are +5/+6).
Honestly a stronger build for blunt weapons is berserker 6/cleric 8 (GM Mace). I ran this build against the Druid in an SCS minimal reload game and and the Druid won (21% XP vs 15% XP).
Ranger/Cleric multi is great in Bg2 but in Bg1 it's pretty average honestly.
Fighter dualed to druid is pretty decent in BG I because you can spec what you want, hit 7th and get your extra +1/2 attack per round (which stacks with the extra +1/2 attack gained from 2-4 points specialized) which grants you 2 attacks per round (3 if dual wielding). It also requires a lot less XP, and unless you're really wanting those extra cleric spells, you're still going to get the spells you want like Ironskins / Insect Plague. Fighter/Druid multiclass is pretty decent as well due to the lower XP requirements.
Just comparing BG I for a moment:
Fighter level 7 = 64,000 XP / Ranger Level 7 = 75,000 XP
Druid Level 9 = 90,000 XP / Cleric Level 9 = 225,000 XP
So...
To successfully dual from Fighter 7 to Druid 9 requires 154,000 XP
To successfully dual from Ranger 7 to Cleric 9 requires 300,000 XP
In the case of the Fighter, you get +1 attack per round (specialization + 7th level bump), and have access to kits that can be potent (Kensai/Druid benefits from Armor of Faith, Barkskin, and Ironskins, and applies the bonuses to hit and damage while in animal forms; Berserker grants enrage, Mageslayer grants some magic resistance and applies the casting penalty to animal attacks).
In the case of the Ranger, you get +1 attack per round (specialization + 7th level bump), have the redundant charm animal, and grant access to druid spells to your cleric half (but not actually any more slots so you'll be splitting your focus between the two disciplines). Unfortunately the only kit that lends itself to a dual-class cleric is perhaps Avenger (the +20% stealth and haste as a divine spell is really nice if you're trying to make a sort of all-in-wonder buffer; but it locks you into studded leather armor at best which is a significant downgrade for a cleric). Archer is useless (you get bonuses to weapons you cannot use a cleric), and Beastmaster would be awesome for a dedicated summoner (granting early spell access to Animal Summing I, II, and III, which makes your low-level divine spells very attractive), with the downside being you can only wield quarterstaffs and clubs (no metal weapons for you) and can only wear leather or studded leather.
They both have their perks. In BG I, I'm pretty sure that Fighter/Druid is superior to Ranger/Cleric in form and function. If you dual out of Ranger pre-7th, you don't get the APR boost, making the Fighter the superior combatant. If you do dual out at 7th, you need to wait much longer to get to 7th, much longer to regain your features, and if you're playing with an XP cap (the original cap is 89,000 XP or 161,000 XP with TOTSC) Ranger/Cleric may be outright impossible (you cannot even reach 5th level spells as a single-class cleric, let alone dual classed).
I think they're pretty fair either way.
If going to BG2 I think you want multi either way to get warrior HLA's and Ranger/Cleric would undoubtedly be the better choice. Stalker 13/Cleric is an interesting choice but restricted to clubs and quarterstaves for backstabbing.
If just playing BG1 then dual berserker 6/druid 10 is the best choice (slight edge over 7/9 due to better caster level on shield of faith and dispel magic, same THAC0, more HP, more spell slots, faster return of abilities).
I went with the 7/9 because - unless it has been changed - the warrior classes get an extra +1/2 attack at 7th level (see charts here), and for me the extra 1/2 attack is more valuable than the +5% damage resistance from Shield of Faith (which is usually only going to be a difference in 1 point of damage from an attack, but you get a lot more HP from that 7th level of Fighter). I could be wrong but the THAC0 should be 1 point better as well (I don't see why it wouldn't be as you get -1 THAC0 for every fighter level you have, which means not counting specialization you should have a 14 THAC0 at fighter level 7 (then another +1 THAC0 if specialized and +2 THAC0 if mastered). If you dual-wield, this can result in 3 attacks per round at THAC0 12/14 before buffs, weapon modifiers, or ability scores. If you happen to be a berserker, you can knock your THAC0 in major fights down to 10/12 respectively. The Bhaalspawn Draw Upon Holy Might is really attractive here too.
Truth be told, I'm more than happy with access to 5th level spells (3 5th level spells is plenty for me, as ironskins lasts 9 attacks or 9 hours, 1-2 insect plagues bring ruin to mass enemies, and against singular powerful enemies the idea is to just throw down in melee until they cry uncle). The additional spells aren't a major concern for me since idea behind this build is to not be anchored to spamming spells to be functional (with your 3+ attacks per round and impressive combat ability you should be able to kill most enemies without using your spells and save your spells for when you need them).
But this all really comes down to difference in play styles and priorities. What is favored by one is often not favored by another (such as how I would favor the more martial approach with spells for when things get hairy, whereas you value the extra spell slots moreso than the extra 1/2 attack, THAC0, and HP, in favor of more casting). Ultimately this is a good thing, because it's nice that their is no wrong way to eat a Reese's. :P
-same THAC0 - 14 at Druid 10
-only 3 less HP at 19 con
-3 level 5 spell slots with 21 wisdom compared to only 2 on a 7/9
-3 apr dual wielding and 4 with haste compared to 3.5 for 7/9 and 4 with haste
-57,000 less XP to get until you have both classes abilities
-+1 to all saves