Why roll a stalker?
Aron740
Member Posts: 153
I was planning to roll a ranger kit and saw the stalker. And after a bit of reading around the forum and through the kit description I still do not understand the class(kit)?
Why would you roll a stalker(except for the badass spy like name)?
What I am getting at is if you like to backstab as one why not roll an assassin or just plain thief? They have superior multiplier and they also have thief abilities and they can both use the same equipment except the thief/assassin can't use helmets.
If you like the stealth then the thief/assa is also superior because they get to 100% stealth faster and they can also choose to put point into other things aswell? The stalker also has no good innate and the assassin has poison weapon which is crazily good. The class(kit) could be a great scout but then the thief/assa would do the same job as good or even better?
I just do not see any good reason to play stalker except the small thing that was mentioned even if I will probably try it out sometime.
So can you help out here?
I know this is no multiplayer focused game so the power of the class does not hold any great value. But if you do know any good reason to pick up this kit can you share it? I would hate to see by the end of the day as something useless since I want everything to have a purpose...?
Feels like I have made a thread like this before...
Why would you roll a stalker(except for the badass spy like name)?
What I am getting at is if you like to backstab as one why not roll an assassin or just plain thief? They have superior multiplier and they also have thief abilities and they can both use the same equipment except the thief/assassin can't use helmets.
If you like the stealth then the thief/assa is also superior because they get to 100% stealth faster and they can also choose to put point into other things aswell? The stalker also has no good innate and the assassin has poison weapon which is crazily good. The class(kit) could be a great scout but then the thief/assa would do the same job as good or even better?
I just do not see any good reason to play stalker except the small thing that was mentioned even if I will probably try it out sometime.
So can you help out here?
I know this is no multiplayer focused game so the power of the class does not hold any great value. But if you do know any good reason to pick up this kit can you share it? I would hate to see by the end of the day as something useless since I want everything to have a purpose...?
Feels like I have made a thread like this before...
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Comments
A lvl1 pure thief can not specialise in a weapon, can not dual wield well so will have 1 attack/round. With 17-18 str max he can get +1 or 2 damage bonus at most. A stalker gets specialisation +1 to hit +2 to damage, plus exceptional STR bonus as high as +2 to hit, +5 to damage or more, plus he can dual wield very well and can have 2,5 attacks/round. Note that a thief can have at most 8 hp at lvl 1, whereas a stalker with 18 con will have 14. In melee, stalker can trash the thief completely. (Nearly double hp, double attacks, a lot more damage, immunity to critical hits)
A fighter/thief multi can come close to stalker, but still does not get two weapon fighting. F/t will get other very useful thief skills, however.
If you want to be tough in melee and be a consistent backstabber, and don't care about being good and losing other thief skills, stalker is golden!
The reason to roll a stalker instead of an assassin is because he has much better APR and Thac0 / damage. He has more health and does better in close combat.
He also has acces to Mage spells: Haste, Protection From Normal Missiles, Minor Spell Deflection
Protection from normal missiles and minor spell deflection aren't that much to cheer about. But getting a free haste is great.
The stalker is kind of a jack of all trade, just more combat focused than the bard.
And the helm can be good, maybe if you are supposed to be in the face with your enemies.
Did not know about the spells though! What kind of spells do they get?
Edit: Okay thanks SionIV!
At level 12 the stalkers gets Haste, Protection From Normal Missiles, Minor Spell Deflection.
[Edited] : He can chunk most casters in one hit. And you have to spend points with your rogue on move silent and hide in shadow, where you might want to put lockpick and disarm trap early game. The stalker gets his skills for free.
Rangers get priest spells up to lvl 3, but they get them at very high lvls, cast them as a very low lvl cleric, and thus the ability is a more of a novelty than being powerful. It helps, however. Stalkers get some extra spells as priest spells:haste, pro from missiles, etc.
[Edited] : They do not get DUHM, I'm thinking about the paladin here. (Thanks to Lunar for correcting me)
Edit: Or F/(weak)M/T and will act just like a F/T?
@Aron740 if you want an exclusively backstabbing character, get shadowdancer. Get elf, 19 dex, stealth boots, and put all points into move silently. Get longsword and single weapon style (elf +1 to hit, increased criticals) and backstab everyone, immediately abuse HiPS (hide in plain sight) ability of the kit, which allows you to hide near enemies, wait a few seconds (so your next round begins) and backstab again. Fighting in the darkness, caves, dungeons, tree shadows, or at night will help your hide skill. Never fight under the sun! If your hide attempt fails after a backstab, run away until you can attempt to hide again.
You should also take into consideration that they get a racial enemy (+4 to hit) and free points into dual wield.
He is that character that can mold the cracks in your party. If you don't have backstabber (You most probably don't if you're not playing thief yourself) then he can come in and take out pesky targets. If you're low on magic or rather use your 3rd level mage spells on something else he can give your party haste. If you put dragon as your racial enemy he will be the one in the front dealing the most damage to Firekraag.
The stalker is much more party friendly than the other ranger kits, and your fighters. He sacrifices his armor for a few nice feats that you might find very useful.
[Edited] : You also get Shadow Dragon armor very early, which is on the same level as a full plate. So the armor restriction won't be a problem for you. No they don't, i'm playing way too much paladin nowadays. They do not get DUHM.
Thank you for correcting me there
Stalker will act like a f/t who has no other thief skills except hide and a weak backstab, but who has other nifty abilities like a handful weak ranger spells, favoured enemy bonus, free two weapon fighting slots, faster lvl ups thanks to being single class, etc. Still, a f/t can don full plate mail and enter melee if it is sorely needed. A stalker can not wear heavy armor at all. Oh also, a stalker can not drop his reputation very low or will be fallen and lose his special abilities.
Also, Why would he not get DUHM? Is it not one of those dream powers that everyone get? I remember my sorcerer got it before I reloaded and killed some pesky farmer just to get a free horror spell instead.
Also will DUHM(if you actually do get it which I think you will) scale with your level or is it static?
DUHM is a cleric level 2 spell. Normally only clerics and paladins have acces to this spell. You as a bhaalspawn can also get this wonderful spell, but it comes from your bhaalspawn abilities.
As we're talking about a stalker in itself and not CHARNAME stalker, the stalker does not get DUHM.
I think the thing here is more likely that rangers aren't that good in Baldur's gate 2. The stalker is the best ranger kit around (IMO) and also better than the normal ranger. So instead of saying the stalker is bad, it's probably the ranger that could have used some improvements.
DUHM scales with your level. At level 3 you get +1 and at level 12 you get + 4.
A Thief dual-classed to a Fighter will probably be better than a Stalker:
- Fighter gets the same THAC0 progression as Stalker.
- Once you've dualled to a Fighter you would actually level up faster than the Stalker. You'd actually catch up and surpass the Stalker by Fighter level 12. And a T->F will reach Fighter level 39 while a Stalker can only reach level 34.
- If you dual a Thief at level 9 you'll get the same 4x multiplier as a Stalker, but much earlier (610,000XP required for T->F vs. 2,700,000XP for Stalker).
- A Thief at level 9 will have more than enough thieving points to get over 100 in both HIS and MS.
- A T->F would be able to get Grandmastery. You wouldn't get the two free points in Two Weapon Style, but I think a Fighter gets more than enough proficiency points to put them in whatever they want anyway.
- No need to be good.
- If using stealth isn't advantageous in a fight, you can switch to heavy armor.
Advantages of a Stalker over T->F:
- Maybe more HP. But the gap will decrease later on because the Fighter can gain 5 additional levels. Though the gap will be bigger if you play with max HP rolls.
- Ranger spells.
- Not necessary to be Human.
There really is nothing that makes them any worse than a fighter, paladin or barbarian. So if you wanted to play a character that was good in close combat, it's more about RP reason and taste than about how good they are.
A stalker with FoA in main hand and Belm / kundane in of hand will destroy just about anything that they throw at you. So it's more to personal taste than anything else.
If the mage leader accepts the challenge (Why should he? Maybe he is Lawful evil, and wants to demonstrate his power and evil rule to his underlings? Or the leader is chaotic evil and just has a sudden urge to display his power and utterly crush the bold knight with his magic? A neutral evil leader may not have a reason to do so, and may just order his soldiers to shoot him, with a smirk) a fight breaks out. Imagine the mage loses and begs for forgiveness in the battle, the paladin will have to accept his surrender and spare his life. A chaotic good stalker, whose friends have been blasted and killed by the mage's spells before, remembers the blackened bodies of so many good men, charred by the infernal fire magicks of the wicked mage, may think he is lying and is just too dangerous to let live, or his dead friends will never know peace until avenged, and kill him anyway. A neutral good character in this dilemma may make the mage unable to cast spells before accepting his surrender. (Crush and break his hand bones, or slit his tongue, etc)
Stalkers are not afraid to get their hands dirty, all for the greater good. Sneaking and backstabbing may not be a noble thing to do, but they use it on evil, to prevent innocents from getting hurt. The stalker in our scenario is willing to risk his own safety and life for the weak and oppressed, hence he is of good alignment. A neutral bounty hunter may do the same, but if only there will be an ample reward and compensation for his efforts. Evil mage is the leader sitting in his tent and whipping the slaves for obedience..or fun. Old Montaron may sneak in to ask if the lesder would like to have an expert torturer right hand halfling? :-p
Specialisation multiplies though so is worth as much or more depending on level.
Okay, but then how are you/I supposed to play this class? And how should I progress with weapons? When I play as fighters I normally pick points in mace or long sword(I want the epic one from hells trials later), Would katana be a good choice?
You can't get Blackrazor sword with a stalker, if you turn evil in Hell trials you will be fallen AFAIK
Stalker goes up to x4 backstab and F/T to x5. I'm not convinced that playing a shadowdancer will be fun unless solo or with an AI script that automatically hides and backstabs as often as possible. Otherwise so much pausing and positioning to get the most out of it.
It wasn't planned, but we both love walking in the outdoors and spending time in the woods. Rolling a stalker is an RP way of playing out an extended fantasy of that. You have more incentive to hide than a regular ranger, which plays well with how I imagine rangers moving about.
As for thieves, I wouldn't think they have as many skills to hone in the great outdoors.
Getting Blackrazor is pointless, as it results in you immediately falling and losing all your kit abilities, including the backstab mod...making you a plain ranger with an armor penalty. Sure, very few enemies past that point can be backstabbed...but it just seems like an odd thing to do for a such a weak weapon......relative to other options you could have by that point.
I generally forget their spells exist because they get druid spells only up to 3rd level...aka...not worth the slots aside from AoF. The extra mage spells are a joke and aren't worth considering....by the time you actually get them, only the spell turning one is kind of useful...but not really since if you're playing right you'll be chunking mage first, and multi-mage battles are actually pretty rare.
The Beastmaster gets better spell casting....getting higher level druid summons that you normally wouldn't get...yes please....spell sponges are WAY better then any of the other spells any other rangers get.
Also, note...Paladin/Ranger spell casting is bugged. It casts AT level, instead the level it's supposed to (lvl 1 at 8 for rangers, lvl 1 at 9 for paladins, capping at 9 levels of bonus at 17/18 respectively), instead scaling all the way up to lvl 20, just like any other caster does. Meaning R/P AoF reaches the full 25% DR (instead of 10%), and the paladin's DUHM reaches +6 str/agl/con (instead of +3)