Continuity between Baldur's Gate 1 and 2
Heindrich
Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
Hey all!
Feel free to ignore the intro fluff and just answer my numbered questions
I am a total noob to the Baldur’s Gate and AD&D universe, though I have held a passing interest in AD&D for some time, and played Warhammer Fantasy/40K when I was younger. I recently came across Baldur’s Gate and the fascinating and richly detailed fantasy world of Abeir-Toril when a friend told me about gog.com, where I bought the Avernum series. Out of curiosity, I decided to check out Baldur’s Gate 2, which was by far the most popular game on the website for that genre, and one of the highest rated games I have ever seen. Pretty soon I was convinced enough to buy BG 2 Complete.
I have just spent an hour or so familiarizing myself with the game and checking out the manuals, when I realised I have very little knowledge and background information on the characters in my party and the world in general, and perhaps it might be a good idea to buy BG 1 as well and play that before BG 2. I have a few questions that will help influence my decision. I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could answer: (and please no spoilers in ur answers!)
1) Is it important to play BG 1 before BG 2 to understand the plot? For example my favourite game in the Avernum series was Avernum 3, and you can easily play it as a stand-alone game because the game summarizes the main events from the first two games at the beginning of the Av 3, and your party has no connection to the heroes of the previous games.
2) How much overlap is there in terms of plot and characters? Are the characters in BG 1 still important in BG 2, or are they minor supporting cast characters?
3) I noticed that you can import BG 1 character into BG 2. How does that work in terms of balancing? Presumably your character in BG 1 becomes pretty powerful by the time he completes the game, even more so if you complete the BG 1 Expansion quests too. Surely it makes a huge difference to gameplay if u began BG 2 with a totally fresh noobie character compared to a battle hardened veteran, even if the game removed his/her gear.
I also have two general questions about character/party customisation.
4) Is it ever possible to create entirely new characters to join your party, or do you have to use the pre-determined characters provided by the game?
5) For your main character, the character creation process and ability/skill selection seems rather restrictive. Is it possible to create a human character who is proficient both in close combat and magic? It seems if I level up a dual-class sorceror/fighter, he will not be able to use spells when he wears armour, so it seems he has to choose to be either a magic user or a warrior, and not both at the same time.
Feel free to ignore the intro fluff and just answer my numbered questions
I am a total noob to the Baldur’s Gate and AD&D universe, though I have held a passing interest in AD&D for some time, and played Warhammer Fantasy/40K when I was younger. I recently came across Baldur’s Gate and the fascinating and richly detailed fantasy world of Abeir-Toril when a friend told me about gog.com, where I bought the Avernum series. Out of curiosity, I decided to check out Baldur’s Gate 2, which was by far the most popular game on the website for that genre, and one of the highest rated games I have ever seen. Pretty soon I was convinced enough to buy BG 2 Complete.
I have just spent an hour or so familiarizing myself with the game and checking out the manuals, when I realised I have very little knowledge and background information on the characters in my party and the world in general, and perhaps it might be a good idea to buy BG 1 as well and play that before BG 2. I have a few questions that will help influence my decision. I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could answer: (and please no spoilers in ur answers!)
1) Is it important to play BG 1 before BG 2 to understand the plot? For example my favourite game in the Avernum series was Avernum 3, and you can easily play it as a stand-alone game because the game summarizes the main events from the first two games at the beginning of the Av 3, and your party has no connection to the heroes of the previous games.
2) How much overlap is there in terms of plot and characters? Are the characters in BG 1 still important in BG 2, or are they minor supporting cast characters?
3) I noticed that you can import BG 1 character into BG 2. How does that work in terms of balancing? Presumably your character in BG 1 becomes pretty powerful by the time he completes the game, even more so if you complete the BG 1 Expansion quests too. Surely it makes a huge difference to gameplay if u began BG 2 with a totally fresh noobie character compared to a battle hardened veteran, even if the game removed his/her gear.
I also have two general questions about character/party customisation.
4) Is it ever possible to create entirely new characters to join your party, or do you have to use the pre-determined characters provided by the game?
5) For your main character, the character creation process and ability/skill selection seems rather restrictive. Is it possible to create a human character who is proficient both in close combat and magic? It seems if I level up a dual-class sorceror/fighter, he will not be able to use spells when he wears armour, so it seems he has to choose to be either a magic user or a warrior, and not both at the same time.
Post edited by mlnevese on
1
Comments
Playing BG1 first does a few things, though. You learn the spells (if a mage/cleric) from early on. I found that part a little overwhelming in BG2 as a caster. Second, you feel affinity/closeness for the characters. BG1 character finishes around level 8 (depending on class). That's about where you start in BG2. There's a slight advantage from continuing, but not that drastic, so the gameplay change is minimal. I still maintain that you care about the character more after BG1. There are ways to do this using the multiplayer option and import multiple characters. I strongly recommend that you not do this for your first playthrough(s)! The NPC's add something to the game and story that a bunch of character created toons won't. The NPC's are what makes (my opinion) BG>>IWD (aka Icewind Dale). The restrictions are based on the D&D rule set of that time. The short answer to your question is yes - and there are many ways to do that (dual classing is one option that ends up stronger than other races' dual class if done correctly). My recommendation for the first playthrough is the Bard (Blade), who levels up really fast and gets mage spells to support fighting. There are more powerful set-ups, but this will give you a good all around character that can kick buttocks.
Dual classing - this can be super strong, but finding lots of info on it might bring more spoilers than you want. If playing BG2 alone, KENSAI starting and switching to mage at LVL 9 is very strong, but you're gimped when you are a new 1st level mage (you lose fighter abilities until you exceed that level in the new class) but turns into a power house.
First time playthrough: I'd really use the Bard (Blade) kit.
Different option is single class CLERIC. They get good magic and can fight.
I really hope this helps you. Enjoy!
Immunity to effect 145/disable spell casting - this will let you cast arcane spells in full plate:
0x00000065
0
145
0x00000001
0
100
0x00000001
Use any item - this will allow the Kensai to wear armour:
0x0000012E
0
1
0x00000009
6
100
0x00000001
Note that this is extremely OP until you find a certain robe in BG2; afterwards, you won't want to equip armour anyway.
Edit to add: why do spoiler tags use square brackets when quote tags use angular brackets?
I've never really seen a point to dual-classing, especially since it's been horribly nerfed, while MCing was heavily buffed. Unless you're just dead-set on being human for RP reasons or due to wanting a human only class, there is no reason to ever be a human.
You level slightly (SLIGHTLY...as in just 1-2 levels behind...the gape broadens in late BG2, but doesn't actually matter since anything over lvl 10 is unnecessary and just icing) slower since it splits xp between both classes, but it actually doesn't matter in the long run.
BG2 summarizes the gist of the first game during it's opening video. Though I highly recommend playing BG1 if you can. It's difficult to go backwards once you get used to BG2's interface, but I feel that EE and TuTu/BGT change the experience too much from what it should be for the conveniences.
When I play RPGs, or indeed games in general, I try to create an interesting story and fun experience, as opposed to min-maxing the shit out of it and trying to break the game. Of course that doesn't mean that I won't play smart tactically, but tactical considerations are secondary to the story-telling/creation.
As a result, I will only use human characters for my main character (because I want him to be relatable), I might consider half-elf, cos that kinda fits the theme I want too... For my first run of the game I've just rolled a standard human fighter, cos the warrior side of the warrior/mage is more important to me. Since apparently he will only be around lv8 by the end of the game, I guess I won't be re-training him in a second class until the expansion or maybe even BG 2.
As I said, I don't demand to have a mathematically ideal character, as long as he can get the job done, it's fine. I intend to play from BG1 to Sword Coast, to BG 2 and Throne of Bhaal with this character, so as long as he doesn't lose too much in the long run compared to a more perfect build, and is never so weak that I cannot progress in the game, then I am happy.
Also I decided to just buy the old games instead of EE, partly cos the old games were so highly rated, and cheap, partly cos I have no idea when BG 2: EE will be released, if ever.
Armor is a first level spell with a massive duration and a decent AC bonus, and while you don't want to cast it if you're planning to travel frequently, if you intend to explore an area fully, it's a good spell to cast. On the other hand...most early, non-named enemies will fall easily to sleep, so you could go that route instead.
Bows or darts are recommended for the early game due to high base attack rates which helps offset low to-hit bonuses, though once you get closer to cap, you'll have natural base attacks and melee starts becoming the better option. As well as, by that point you can buff your AC to ridiculous levels and go toe to toe with the strongest enemies in the game effortlessly, solo if you want.
MC characters are simply easier. they don't have huge stat requirements like dual-classing does, and don't require a lot of meta knowledge to get the most out of them. Also, you have all your abilities immediately, instead of waiting until the sequel or cap to really actually start playing the way you wanted to.
I ask because I am considering playing BG 2 eventually with a friend, who was planning to just create a character from scratch in BG 2, whereas I will import my protagonist from BG 1 once I have finished TotSC. Given BG is a cooperative game, balance between our characters is not crucial, but it will be no fun for him if mine is significantly more powerful than his and he is dying in battles that I can dominate.
As I understand it, the game is designed to compensate for this difference by making BG 2 starting characters much stronger than BG 1 starters, which is a smart solution from a game mechanic point of view and fits the canon rather well.
I also did a little research on BG 2 itemisation, and it became clear that whatever gear advantage I have at the very start will soon be insignificant because just about everything in BG 1 is outclassed by BG 2 items.
However… when I looked at xp points and levels, I spotted a problem that seems more significant to me. If I just played BG 1, then I’d have around 80K xp, which is similar to the 70K xp fresh BG 2 characters start with. However, if I play TotSC too, which I certainly intend to, then I will have close to 160K xp, more than twice the starting xp for a BG 2 starter. Although this translates to just 1/1 level more (7/7 instead of 6/6) for my Fighter/Mage, it seems like a major head-start when it comes to character levelling, and I will always be a level or two ahead.
Is this problem as significant as I perceive it to be or will he also have to play through BG 1 and TotSC if we are to have characters at equal levels of development at the start of BG 2?
Also? Has anyone actually tried a multiplayer BG 2 experience? Does it make things better or worse? Will the combat become more tedious? Harder to coordinate the actions of your party?
2.) The difference in XP between 89K (Starter XP) and 161K (Tosc) isn't that big. You'll barely notice once you get into BG 2
3.) The difference between a BG1 char and a BG2 char are the books you can get in BG1. It's possible to get 1 extra of every stat except wisdom which you can get +3. If you're playing a fighter based character you'll be more powerful from the books than if you were a caster.
Oh I don't think that's going to be a problem because I deliberately chose a non-optimal character, so even with all the manuals, my friend can easily roll a character to match or even surpass my PC.
My Fighter/Mage (Half-Elf) started with 15 Str, 17 Dex, 15 Con, 18 Int, 12 Wis, and 10 Cha. I've only given him the +1 Con manual so far, and I might not even give him the other ones. (I know the benefits of stat upgrades are lost on the NPCs in BG2)
2.) A lich can give you 22 000 experience, the moment you get out of the first dungeon (start of game) your whole party is rewarded with 30 000 experience each. You'll easily be able to get 1 000 000 experience to split between your party members early on.
3.) Then it won't be a problem. It also isn't a problem if you play a caster (cleric,mage) or a thief. But once you pick a fighter and give him the tomes to get a natural 19 strenght it's starting to get ridicolously good. The difference between 18 and 19 strenght is : +5 more damage, +2 more Thaco and your carry weight go from 200 to 500.
I don't believe there are any real problems with a multi-player game, except that you both need to have the same build. Personal opinion though; one of the real joys of BG2 is how sophisticated and immersive the various NPC stories are, and how they all interact with each other. I would not deny myself a single NPC for the purpose of gaming with another person. I think the game plays better with one PC and five NPCs.
1.) got his name
2.) got his gear on you or have had it on you in BG2.
Just make sure you drop his gear before you export your character. Then import him into BG2 and you won't have any problems.
But if you are running two games at once, one alone, one with a friend, that would probably be a pretty satisfying way of doing it. At least for you!
That said, I will probably still give it a go. AD&D was meant as multiplayer, and BG is a rather faithful adaptation of it, so it could be my lazy entry into the world of D&D lol.
2) In BG2, Imoen, Jaheira and Minsc are found at the very beginning and around town you will also meet Edwin and Viconia who can join you and you will run into at least Xzar most likely, who sadly doesn't join you.
3) BG2 is designed with you starting at 89000-161000 XP (Between the cap of regular BG1 and Tales of the Sword Coast expansion), you will not be overpowered.
4) You can always create multiple characters yourself with the use of Multiplayer, however they will not react to anything at all.
5) Sorcerer can't dual class, and I think it's generally thought to be better to dual class a fighter into a mage, you will need atleast 17 strength and 17 intelligence to do this and you can't cast spells while wearing armor, outside of a couple exceptions such as Elven Chain... Armor spells are a good thing for Fighter/Mages.
And you do carry over benefits of any stat manuals spent on the Bhaalspawn or other PC characters (which is the real benefit of importing, if you ask me)...stat changes to NPCs do not stick.