Component Selection (BG:EE 1PP)

Ward

I know there's already a post about 1PP but I thought it was best to ask separately.

The horned helmets from the Candlekeep store does not have horns if you install 1PP. I will be sad about this because I like the horned helmets.

Furthurmore, I don't install every component of 1PP, can we choose what it uses? I really don't like the coloured staves component at all, plus I try to avoid the flaming swords so it doesn't feel too magical.


EDIT: My suggestion is that 1PP comes compiled with BG:EE and offers to run the WeiDU file after the game is finished. If you decide not to you can do it later.

Nathan

Aiyo, I'll copy paste what I wrote in that thread here:

"We'll be closely examining the 1pp content and making sure that it jives with what we're trying to accomplish. Where possible we want to integrate all the great fixes and work that Erephine's done, but as for opinions on how good things look, or what's the better choice I'm totally going to force our art director Nat to make the judgement call there. Muahahaha! we'll be keeping a close eye on it as it gets integrated and attempting to pick and choose what makes the most sense. "

Having said that, if there's a lot of feedback about things people like/don't like we'll (of course!) take that into consideration.

AndreaColombo

I pretty much love all of 1PP except the "new potion graphics" component, which I always skip. I would keep that one optional. Everything else can be implemented, as far as I'm concerned.

The_New_Romance

Why not make everything optional? I don't think it would be that much more work, and this way everyone would be able to tailor the game to his or her needs. Could be as simple as checkboxes in the game launcher's "Options" menu.

mch202

Does implementing 1pp include the "Legacy Shields" component??
I just love how the shields looked in Bg1, they are MUCH better than those weird pieces of metal in bg2/

AndreaColombo

@mch202 - I sure hope so. I loved the BG1 shields, too (though I pretty much love everything in BG1 graphics, with the sole exception of spell effects which I liked better in BG2, so I admit to my bias).

Excalibur_2102

while I dont have anything against bg2 shields graphics etc, I think they belong in BG2. Any art or whatever they can restore to look like the original Bg1 art is a plus imo

mch202

Excalibur_2102 said:

while I dont have anything against bg2 shields graphics etc, I think they belong in BG2. Any art or whatever they can restore to look like the original Bg1 art is a plus imo

I think they do not belong to anything, specially the buckler - which is not a buckler at all.

Example:

A buckler in BG2:



The exact same animation and size as a small shield, and its not even round ( you can check 'buckler' in google, 99% of them are round )

my point is that they messed up big time with the shields and helmets animations in bg2, and because BG2 is a direct continuation of BG1 I dont see a reason why suddenly all the helmets and shields should look any different.

The_New_Romance

mch202 said:

my point is that they messed up big time with the shields and helmets animations in bg2, and because BG2 is a direct continuation of BG1 I dont see a reason why suddenly all the helmets and shields should look any different.

Because it takes place in Amn, not in the Western Heartlands/Sword Coast area anymore. If a real-world analogue is allowed, that is about the discrepancy between English and Spanish shield and armour design.

I love how there is a change in artstyle between BG1 and BG2. I also love each artstyle itself, so please try to get BG1 as "oney" as possible, and BG2 as "twoey" as possible.

mch202

The_New_Romance said:

mch202 said:

my point is that they messed up big time with the shields and helmets animations in bg2, and because BG2 is a direct continuation of BG1 I dont see a reason why suddenly all the helmets and shields should look any different.

Because it takes place in Amn, not in the Western Heartlands/Sword Coast area anymore. If a real-world analogue is allowed, that is about the discrepancy between English and Spanish shield and armour design.

@The_New_Romance
Well, Even the Spanish small shields are Round in that matter, also the middle eastern, Japanese and even the Aztec small shields are Round. Simply, if its doesnt look like a buckler, not in the size of a buckler - Dont call it a buckler! because its not a buckler.

For the other kinds of larger shields.. they dont look either like any shield from any culture, even if they do, I just Hate them. They look terrible, but thats just my personal opinion.

Mornmagor

The only thing i didn't like about 1pp is the changes to elf cleric and fighter avatars/sprites (female), as far as plate armor is concerned.

1pp changes a lot of the plate with chainmail ( Erephine loved chainmail ). I prefer the original. My argument is that when i wear full plate i want to see more plate, not chainmail, this was made because of the author's personal preference, to be honest i wouldn't really like it to be enforced on me :]

The_New_Romance

mch202 said:

@The_New_Romance
Well, Even the Spanish small shields are Round in that matter, also the middle eastern, Japanese small shields are round and even the Aztec small shields are Round. Simply, if its doesnt look like a buckler, not in the size of a buckler - Dont call it a buckler! because its not a buckler.

For the other kinds of larger shields.. they dont look either like any shield from any culture, even if they do, I just Hate them. They look terrible, but thats just my personal opinion.

Of course, round shields should be round and bucklers shouldn't be the same as small shields. I'm with you on that one, I just like the difference between the classic-medieval-BG1 style and the fantasy-renaissance-BG2 style. It fits the atmosphere. But, bottom line, I'm all for customizability, so please include the mod, but have everything be switchable. I'm not that far away from you, I just want the distinct art styles preserved (and nothing such as IWD + HOW, where the paperdoll has a BG1 style shield and the avatar in-game has a BG2 one o_O).

AndreaColombo

I agree that an overall change in art style for helms and shields can account for the diversity of setting between the Sword Coast and Amn. However, I believe we can all agree that most BG2 art was poorly drawn to begin with, and regardless of the content. The same shield shape can be drawn in much better ways. Also, there was absolutely no reason to change the paperdolls and the rest of the animations, and above all no reason to make them mirrored.

For the purpose restoring the original BG1 feel for BG:EE, bucklers and round shields are a must, and the original medium and large shields would also be very welcome. I wouldn't mind the BG1 helmets either, but unless Erephine has worked on them for 1PPv4 I'm afraid that's not possible.

When the time for BG2:EE comes, we'll see. I have nothing against changing the art style so long as the drawing quality remains intact (BG1 had a very high drawing quality, imo). If the BG2 shields are to remain those we know, I'd rather get BG1 shields instead (I understand that someone else may prefer the BG2 shields nonetheless).

Balquo

BG:EE should keep BG1 art despite using the BG2 engine. BG2:EE can of course use it's own art.

Nathan

The_New_Romance said:

Why not make everything optional? I don't think it would be that much more work, and this way everyone would be able to tailor the game to his or her needs. Could be as simple as checkboxes in the game launcher's "Options" menu.

Careful with that preconception. That's the funny part about game development. What you think may not be that much more work is in actuality a whole buttload of work (and cost) as in addition to making the change, it needs to be tested. Then there's the problem of other platforms to take into consideration and so on and so on. It'd be one thing if we were re-creating the engine from the ground up, but as it stands, working within the constraints of what's already there it's not nearly as simple as you might think.

as for the other stuff: I think where possible the plan is to go with BG1-stylings ('cause hey! It's BG1).

The_New_Romance

I see. I don't have an idea of game development, to be honest, but I thought that if you're able to make one checkbox for an optionalized feature of 1PP, then it'd just be a matter of minutes to make checkboxes for them all as the infrastructure is already in place. If that isn't the case, I stand corrected.

To make it clear again: I'm all for BG1 stylings for BG1:EE. I just wouldn't want BG2:EE to look like its predecessor. I also don't want my plate mail looking like chain, huu.

DiscoCat

Just tack the Weidu mod on wholesale and run it automatically (or let the user run it) after installation is done. That is, unless BG:EE breaks the compatibility and requires tweaking the mod installer.

Salk

The BG2 shields (but not only) look simply awful. So BG:EE *must* have the BG1 art all along of course. I like most of 1PP's improvements over the vanilla BG2 graphic with the exception of the Half-Orc paperdoll which is very poor, in my opinion. In this case, I would stick to the Bioware Half-Orc Paperdoll.

Ward

It seems like there are a lot of pros and cons to 1PP depending on your own singular preference. I don't want coloured staves and I'm sad that 1PP takes the horns off the helmets from Candlekeep inn.

Overall I'd say 1PP is a good call, but it certainly needs to be up to the player what is installed, perhaps even to a higher extent than the generic WeiDU pack.

Hoo

I perfactly agree with Salk. In addition, I hope to see BG1 Large Shield animation instead of BG2.

Mornmagor

The_New_Romance said:

I also don't want my plate mail looking like chain, huu.

Indeed, indeed :]

Schneidend

Main thing I want to see are the legacy shields. The BG1 shields actually look like proper medieval shields. You could pretty much keep everything else the same, however.

Ward

@Schneidend

The shields are actually pretty good. I remember talking about historical inaccuracies in BG with armour but the shields aren't too bad. Now BG2, that's where it goes out the window man.

The bucklers are correct, the small round shields are correct (except for the funky metal rim). The medium shields and the tower shields, if they were teardrop or kite shaped would be correct. More or less they aren't bad.

I've been doing a lot of comparison between 1PP and vanilla BG, I've decided there are a lot of things I don't like about 1PP and a lot of things I don't like about vanilla.

AndreaColombo

@Schneidend - you mean you like BG2 paperdolls and animations? :-O

Schneidend

AndreaColombo said:

@Schneidend - you mean you like BG2 paperdolls and animations? :-O

If by paperdolls you mean the actual sprites, then yes. I love the way plate mail looks on Fighters in BG2.

If you mean the display of your character's appearance on the inventory screen, I really couldn't care less what those look like.

Animations, on the other hand, it's been so long since I played vanilla BG that I don't even remember which game's animations I like better.

I just want classic BG1 shields and BG2 plate mail sprites. Full stop.

Ward said:

@Schneidend

The shields are actually pretty good. I remember talking about historical inaccuracies in BG with armour but the shields aren't too bad. Now BG2, that's where it goes out the window man.

The bucklers are correct, the small round shields are correct (except for the funky metal rim). The medium shields and the tower shields, if they were teardrop or kite shaped would be correct. More or less they aren't bad.

I've been doing a lot of comparison between 1PP and vanilla BG, I've decided there are a lot of things I don't like about 1PP and a lot of things I don't like about vanilla.

I suppose the tower shields aren't very medieval in BG1. I do love their Roman look in that game, though. The teardrop tower shields in BG2 did nothing for me.

Ward

@Schneidend Yes the tower shields in BG2 are similar to real Norman kites, but they have this funny pointed rim on them which is odd looking. The rest of the BG2 shields are just wrong, but I wouldn't like them to be changed.

I just wish we could mix and match individual paperdolls (inventory screen) and avatars (in game sprite), so that way you could choose exactly what you wanted. I'm having second thoughts about 1PP coming installed with BG:EE now, just in case the originals from BG1 can be restored.

Mornmagor

Schneidend said:

AndreaColombo said:

@Schneidend - you mean you like BG2 paperdolls and animations? :-O

If by paperdolls you mean the actual sprites, then yes. I love the way plate mail looks on Fighters in BG2

Paperdolls is inventory images.

Sprites or animations is the same thing, the in game models.

On Fighters, human males always looked better in BG1 in my opinion, and so did male Elfs, but the females looked better for fighters and clerics in BG2. There were some small things that needed fixing in BG2, like making kneecaps bigger etc, to give an actual leg armor look.

Can't really say though that i like the look of plate armor in Baldur's Gate in general. Doesn't feel like plate, rather silver skin especially waist down. In fact, no Bioware game existed that i liked plate armor except Dragon Age 2, but i didn't like other stuff about that

Never trust Bioware for armor looks i guess :P

Ward

In BG1 females who are fighters had nice big chests and tight spandex. It's a shame 1PP doesn't uphold that. XD

Schneidend

"

Ward said:

@Schneidend
I just wish we could mix and match individual paperdolls (inventory screen) and avatars (in game sprite), so that way you could choose exactly what you wanted. I'm having second thoughts about 1PP coming installed with BG:EE now, just in case the originals from BG1 can be restored.

Meh. As long as plate mail on warrior classes looks good, I'm fine.

Although, I freaking LOVED the sprite for plate mail on male human clerics in BG1. Dat Mail Skirt! The Flaming Fist guys use that sprite and they look very intimidating.

I remember being 11 years-old and thinking "Okay, those guys look awesome and they belong to some cult called the 'Flaming Fist.' I am NOT going to mess with those dudes."

Mornmagor said:

Paperdolls is inventory images.

Sprites or animations is the same thing, the in game models.

On Fighters, human males always looked better in BG1 in my opinion, and so did male Elfs, but the females looked better for fighters and clerics in BG2. There were some small things that needed fixing in BG2, like making kneecaps bigger etc, to give an actual leg armor look.

Can't really say though that i like the look of plate armor in Baldur's Gate in general. Doesn't feel like plate, rather silver skin especially waist down. In fact, no Bioware game existed that i liked plate armor except Dragon Age 2, but i didn't like other stuff about that

Never trust Bioware for armor looks i guess :P

Silver skin? Maybe in BG1, where plate mail just looked like bulkier chainmail on male human Fighters. In BG2, it was bulky in all the right places and had these rad pauldrons. The human female Fighters looked awesome, too.

Mornmagor

In BG1 i could even distinguish the shinguard from the sabaton.

Anyway this is my opinion, but yes, waist down the armors failed bad in BG2 for me.

Ward

Really if I was able to do I'd just redraw some of the helmets and shields myself. Editing the actual armour would be more difficult, all you have to do is load them in Near Infinity and you can see the amount of work you have to do.

At the end of the day I guess it doesn't matter that much. We don't spend a lot of time focusing on the sprites.