Yea, I cheat, but I also modded my game so that all the monsters/enemies have their maximum possible hit points.
I thought dragons were tough before, but fighting them with SCS AI, triple life, and maximum hp rolls was something else. When I fought the Shadow Dragon damn thing just wouldn't die.
this is my kind of cheating, yes you could cheat but you also cheated against you to keep the difficulty up. i like it! i usually cheat after my first playthrough mainly to get an idea of what i want on my next playthrough
@marceror That's just stupid. Here, I refer to you to a definition of cheat
"To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."
By changing the difficulty to normal you are violating the rolling of HP rule of core rules to gain an advantage. Ergo, you are cheating the core rules.
So you believe that people who play on easy or normal are cheating? Different difficulty levels use different rules, and each set of rules s appropriate and correct for that difficulty level. You could just as easily argue that those who play on Core are violating the rules of hard difficulty, but that would just be silly. 5 difficulty levels provided by Bioware with 5 sets of rules. None is a violation of "the rules" therefore.
"Cheating" implies "breaking the rules". If moving the difficulty slider were a rule which should not or could not be broken then it wouldn't exist at all. Active use of any modding tool to examine the items, spells, or game mechanics files would also be "cheating", as would looking up websites or videos giving you advance knowledge of things which occur in the game. Given the fact that we, the players, owe Overhaul/Beamdog nothing except the modest amount of money required to purchase the game, there is no action which can be viewed objectively as "cheating"--I can edit my characters, the spells, the items, the creatures, or anything else all I want to without having to explain my reasons to anyone.
The correct response to "you're just a cheater" is "it is awfully nice of you to think so. thank you!".
Finally someone else who gets it. "The Rules" of Baldur's Gate allow you to adjust the difficulty slider at your whim, and doing so is therefore not a cheat.
@marceror That's just stupid. Here, I refer to you to a definition of cheat
"To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."
By changing the difficulty to normal you are violating the rolling of HP rule of core rules to gain an advantage. Ergo, you are cheating the core rules.
So you believe that people who play on easy or normal are cheating? Different difficulty levels use different rules, and each set of rules s appropriate and correct for that difficulty level. You could just as easily argue that those who play on Core are violating the rules of hard difficulty, but that would just be silly. 5 difficulty levels provided by Bioware with 5 sets of rules. None is a violation of "the rules" therefore.
@marceror That's just stupid. Here, I refer to you to a definition of cheat
"To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."
By changing the difficulty to normal you are violating the rolling of HP rule of core rules to gain an advantage. Ergo, you are cheating the core rules.
So you believe that people who play on easy or normal are cheating? Different difficulty levels use different rules, and each set of rules s appropriate and correct for that difficulty level. You could just as easily argue that those who play on Core are violating the rules of hard difficulty, but that would just be silly. 5 difficulty levels provided by Bioware with 5 sets of rules. None is a violation of "the rules" therefore.
No, that's not what I said. Please read it again.
With such a terse response from you, it becomes clear that responding it not likely to be an overly fruitful enterprise. But I will bite one more time. There's no need to reread what you said because I got it the first time, but for posterity, here it is:
"That's just stupid. Here, I refer to you to a definition of cheat
"To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."
By changing the difficulty to normal you are violating the rolling of HP rule of core rules to gain an advantage. Ergo, you are cheating the core rules."
Here's what your post seems to overlook. The game has 5 sets of rules, and a broader rule (i.e. feature) that a player can switch between these rulesets at will. That's "the rules" of Baldur's gate.
So if someone opts to use the normal rules for a period of time instead of core, or hard, or insane, they aren't violating a darn thing. They are using the rules of Baldur's Gate to lower (or raise) the difficulty at will. In this case, they aren't "cheating" the core rules, they are simply opting not to use them in favor of a separate, completely viable, difficulty level. If, on the other hand, BG didn't allow for this easy switching of difficulty levels at will, and the player was using a third party modding tool to hack their game, they would then be cheating (because the rules of the game don't allow for this).
See the difference? You're taking a very myopic view of what the rules are in the game, and failing to see the broader picture of this game's rules around changing difficulty levels. It's called a difficulty "slider" for a reason.
That's not anything I'm overlooking. I'm not discussing "the rules of Baldur's Gate", whatever that means. I'm discussing "Core Rules" which are defined within the game, which is what this topic is about. See the difference? Within the core rules is the rule of random HP rolls. If you produce a method by which you bypass this rule in order to get max HP, you are violating the core rules.
If you produce a method by which you bypass this rule in order to get max HP, you are violating the core rules.
Which in Baldur's Gate, BG2, BGEE, and BG2EE is not cheating - as the game was designed to allow players to do exactly this.
By the way, the core "rules" referred to in Baldur's Gate's mid-level difficulty setting actually refers to the closest approximation in the game to the rules of D&D 2nd Edition. We are not playing D&D 2nd Edition, which is a table top game, we are playing a computer game that is loosely based on that rule set.
Again, I contest that choosing not to use that setting at any time or for any reason is a cheat. I contest it when you assert it. I contest that the original post asserts it. And further, the default setting the game uses is "normal", which clearly indicates that this is the setting that was intended by the game designers to be used by the majority of players.
These are not the cheaters you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.
By the way, the core "rules" referred to in Baldur's Gate's mid-level difficulty setting actually refers to the closest approximation in the game to the rules of D&D 2nd Edition. We are not playing D&D 2nd Edition, which is a table top game, we are playing a computer game that is loosely based on that rule set.
I don't understand your point. Regardless of PnP, the core rules of BG include the rolling of HP.
Again, I contest that choosing not to use that setting at any time or for any reason is a cheat. I contest it when you assert it. I contest that the original post asserts it. And further, the default setting the game uses is "normal", which clearly indicates that this is the setting that was intended by the game designers to be used by the majority of players.
That's not the point. The point here is people who play on core rules and switch down to gain max HP are cheating the rules of core rules. It's their choice and they can do whatever they want. But it is what it is. I can't say it any clearer than that.
That's not the point. The point here is people who play on core rules and switch down to gain max HP are cheating the rules of core rules. It's their choice and they can do whatever they want. But it is what it is. I can't say it any clearer than that.
If it's well within the rules to adjust the slider whenever, then how can it be breaking the rules when u adjust the slider whenever? Cheating is saying that you are "breaking the rulese" If you pick a ruleset, and it was supposed to be permanent throughout the game, different story. Your logic would suggest that anyone that doesn't play insane, would be cheating. Hasn't that already been pointed out?
I don't know if people are being obtuse or if this viewpoint is really so difficult to grasp. Honestly I don't feel like repeating myself, so if you don't get it, just let it go.
I edited the files that manage hit points so the difficulty slider no longer has any effect on that die roll. I'm the worst cheater here...and proud of it.
Of course this can happen. Consider hpfm.2da, which controls the hit point rolls for fighter/mages. There are three columns: sides (which always equals 7), rolls (default is a 1), and modifier (starts at 0 then becomes 2 at 10th level), so fighter/mages get 1d7 hp/level...but divided by two and rolled every time they go up a level. The average roll from 1d7 would be 4, so you can set all the values in "rolls" to 0 and set "modifier" to 4. This will give fighter/mages only "average" results. This doesn't count constitution modifiers, of course.
Save Load and Export Import are your best friends throughout the entire series. Do not be good pals with them at your own risk and loss. Seriously, there are people who call even Save Load an exploit or a cheat...
If you produce a method by which you bypass this rule in order to get max HP, you are violating the core rules.
And by your definition, playing on normal difficulty is cheating. After all, normal difficulty bypasses this rule and results in max HP. I happen to wholeheartedly disagree with this notion.
I'm not "offended" by the word in the slightest. I have no problem admitting that I cheat in my games in some respects. For example, my Hexxat is a dual class fighter 7/assassin X. I don't lower difficulty personally, but even still, I don't believe doing so is a cheat.
We're basically talking in circles at this point, so I think I'll leave it here.
Heck, I save before scribing a scroll even on 'Normal' difficulty. If it don't save, Power-Word-Reload. I'm not proud.
I don't think that this is "Cheating" primarily because I am not playing against anyone else. I am not depriving anyone else of an unfair advantage, nor am I taking one over someone else. The game can be hard enough as it stands.
It's a game folks. If you aren't having fun at it, you are doing something wrong. Beyond that, it's all in the reflexes.
Hmmm... Some games have parental locks. This game (BG series) seems to be in a dire need of glitches/exploits/saveload/exportimport lock mode, in its options. Damn!
Or even better, an options panel identical to the one from Icewind dale. There was a box to check for getting max xp, without need of lowering difficulty or even save and load...
Or even better, an options panel identical to the one from Icewind dale. There was a box to check for getting max xp, without need of lowering difficulty or even save and load...
IWD was clearly cheating though, by breaking core rules! Shameful.
If you produce a method by which you bypass this rule in order to get max HP, you are violating the core rules.
And by your definition, playing on normal difficulty is cheating. After all, normal difficulty bypasses this rule and results in max HP. I happen to wholeheartedly disagree with this notion.
I'm not "offended" by the word in the slightest. I have no problem admitting that I cheat in my games in some respects. For example, my Hexxat is a dual class fighter 7/assassin X. I don't lower difficulty personally, but even still, I don't believe doing so is a cheat.
We're basically talking in circles at this point, so I think I'll leave it here.
No, it isn't. You seem to be missing the entire point of this discussion, which is CORE RULES. If you want to play by the CORE RULES then switching down to NORMAL is cheating the CORE RULES. Devoting a playthrough to NORMAL is not cheating by this definition. However, I think changing from NORMAL to EASY to let's say beat Firkraag is again cheating NORMAL RULES. If you're a player that doesn't care about the rules and just wants to finish the game, you can change rules every two minutes if you'd like. I am in this thread discussing CORE RULES and the question is whether people cheat these rules by switching down or not. Why is it so hard to understand?
I have a sort of OCD thing about getting max hit points, but I actually like to fail to write spells now and then. It means having to find new ways to win battles when your mage just never got the hang of that really helpful spell yet.
Sorry FinneousPJ, but you're condraticting yourself.
YOU said: If you produce a method by which you bypass this rule in order to get max HP, you are violating the core rules.
Playing on normal difficulty for an entire game qualifies as a method to bypass this rule in order to get max HP. It's rather difficult to have a conversation with someone if they're not even going to backup their own statements, and instead will accuse me of "not understanding".
I think I get what Finneous wants to say. Core rules make you roll. And bypassing that could be considered cheating. Though I do not think that's what I would call it, because that's the wrong way to look at the situation, obscuring what it really is. It's just choosing a different difficulty level, one that game sliders do not provide. It's not Normal, 90% of the time we deal with consequences of Core rules. And yet it's not Core due to bypassing those rolls. We should find a name for it (Core-light? I'm not good with names) and settle that that's the way many people play. And leave the ch-word for the more deserving (like me who likes to have 18s in his stats).
Perhaps the abstraction is confusing you. Let's use an example:
I start a game with the intention of challenging myself by using INSANE. Among other things, this implies the rule of enemies dealing extra damage. I decide to head straight to Firkraag in order to get a special kind of weapon. However, I find my level 8-ish part unable to beat Firkraag. I'm forced to lower the difficulty to EASY in order to beat him. In doing so, I violate the rule of enemies dealing extra damage and thus I cheat the INSANE ruleset. I have cheated the INSANE RULES and failed my self-imposed challenge.
Comments
Given the fact that we, the players, owe Overhaul/Beamdog nothing except the modest amount of money required to purchase the game, there is no action which can be viewed objectively as "cheating"--I can edit my characters, the spells, the items, the creatures, or anything else all I want to without having to explain my reasons to anyone.
The correct response to "you're just a cheater" is "it is awfully nice of you to think so. thank you!".
Finally someone else who gets it. "The Rules" of Baldur's Gate allow you to adjust the difficulty slider at your whim, and doing so is therefore not a cheat.
"That's just stupid. Here, I refer to you to a definition of cheat
"To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."
By changing the difficulty to normal you are violating the rolling of HP rule of core rules to gain an advantage. Ergo, you are cheating the core rules."
Here's what your post seems to overlook. The game has 5 sets of rules, and a broader rule (i.e. feature) that a player can switch between these rulesets at will. That's "the rules" of Baldur's gate.
So if someone opts to use the normal rules for a period of time instead of core, or hard, or insane, they aren't violating a darn thing. They are using the rules of Baldur's Gate to lower (or raise) the difficulty at will. In this case, they aren't "cheating" the core rules, they are simply opting not to use them in favor of a separate, completely viable, difficulty level. If, on the other hand, BG didn't allow for this easy switching of difficulty levels at will, and the player was using a third party modding tool to hack their game, they would then be cheating (because the rules of the game don't allow for this).
See the difference? You're taking a very myopic view of what the rules are in the game, and failing to see the broader picture of this game's rules around changing difficulty levels. It's called a difficulty "slider" for a reason.
By the way, the core "rules" referred to in Baldur's Gate's mid-level difficulty setting actually refers to the closest approximation in the game to the rules of D&D 2nd Edition. We are not playing D&D 2nd Edition, which is a table top game, we are playing a computer game that is loosely based on that rule set.
Again, I contest that choosing not to use that setting at any time or for any reason is a cheat. I contest it when you assert it. I contest that the original post asserts it. And further, the default setting the game uses is "normal", which clearly indicates that this is the setting that was intended by the game designers to be used by the majority of players.
These are not the cheaters you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.
I'm not "offended" by the word in the slightest. I have no problem admitting that I cheat in my games in some respects. For example, my Hexxat is a dual class fighter 7/assassin X. I don't lower difficulty personally, but even still, I don't believe doing so is a cheat.
We're basically talking in circles at this point, so I think I'll leave it here.
I don't think that this is "Cheating" primarily because I am not playing against anyone else. I am not depriving anyone else of an unfair advantage, nor am I taking one over someone else. The game can be hard enough as it stands.
It's a game folks. If you aren't having fun at it, you are doing something wrong. Beyond that, it's all in the reflexes.
Or even better, an options panel identical to the one from Icewind dale. There was a box to check for getting max xp, without need of lowering difficulty or even save and load...
YOU said: If you produce a method by which you bypass this rule in order to get max HP, you are violating the core rules.
Playing on normal difficulty for an entire game qualifies as a method to bypass this rule in order to get max HP. It's rather difficult to have a conversation with someone if they're not even going to backup their own statements, and instead will accuse me of "not understanding".
I start a game with the intention of challenging myself by using INSANE. Among other things, this implies the rule of enemies dealing extra damage. I decide to head straight to Firkraag in order to get a special kind of weapon. However, I find my level 8-ish part unable to beat Firkraag. I'm forced to lower the difficulty to EASY in order to beat him. In doing so, I violate the rule of enemies dealing extra damage and thus I cheat the INSANE ruleset. I have cheated the INSANE RULES and failed my self-imposed challenge.