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Was it worth it? No.

scrawnypawsscrawnypaws Member Posts: 11
edited January 2014 in Archive (General Discussion)
I've played BG series back in the 90s and retain fondest memories of it. I've even joined Bioware in 2005 (I worked on games since 2002, apart from matte work in films).

I bought BG/EE driven by nostalgia and - I won't hide it - all the hype. I've played it thru' and ...Bugs and perf issues aside, this wasn't the game I remembered. Sort of dumbed down, softened? Maybe.

Dorn is a cool character, sure, BUT the presence of someone with his stats and a +2 weapon seriously changes the balance of the game, especially at the beginning. Other new characters are a joke. The new locations are simply atrocious. Even in 1998 I'd be ashamed to show such stuff to people. But what do I know, right? :)
And plz, don't even start me on bugs...

What a bummer, but then...

I went to GOG site and got both games for the same $20. DL'd all good free stuff developed by enthusiasts and OMG! The charm was back. The game ran smoothly, it had new characters that did fit and THANKS to those heroes I could play it on my (hmm, aw shucks--) Wacom 24HD tablet and it looked...oh yeah, it looked GREAT!

Do hear me? No Beamdog, and still it feels, works and looks GREAT.

Now, I look forward to playing BGT all the way thru' as an evil sorcerer, then as a thief, then...well, you get the drift.

So, was that inept rehash ( a butchery, more like) worth my hard earned money? No.

Have a good day. Thanks.

Post edited by Metalloman on
«13

Comments

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    :(
  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited June 2013
    I gotta say I love the community mods and still use some with bg:ee ...To criticise well I never liked bgt's spawns and the widescreen mod is a bit rough on the eyes at 1920x1080 ... Tutu is largely irrelevant if you have bg:ee. BG:EE does a lot of things better imho and I've grown really fond of it, I've grown sick of the time and effort it takes to install dozens of mods in some particular order and hope it all works :D

    Also Dorn is hardly overpowered I say but as the first half orc npc is a bit conspicuous in that he hits so hard. This is balanced in that he lacks hit points and needs more support than some npcs, uses a two handed weapon and lacks apr, ... and is evil so will be passed over by many heroes. And by the way, everyone knows you can have at least 3 +2 weapons before and around the time you get Dorn in the party ...

    The new areas well I've only seen Neera's and it is a little lackluster perhaps but it's low level and I wouldn't exactly call it embarrassing. The red wizards seem spot on in the vibe of BG and the final fight in the cave is no picnic especially with SCS installed ah well.

    Actually i'm kind of offended you called BG:EE a rehash and a butchery ... but to each his own. I go back to modded bg2 to test out character and party builds and it's just F*****G ghetto in comparisson to bg:ee.



  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    I still don't like BGEE after trying and completing it twice. But i got to say they did some alright stuff, it wasn't only negative things for me. I agree with the NPC's as i don't feel they fit in with the original cast of NPC's and that's a no-no for me. It's one of the reasons i don't play user made mods (If they feel different than the original game)

    But as this game gets new patches i'm going to sit and wait on this one. I might still end up liking it alot better after it's got patched on a few of it's problems.

    But i can't thank them enough for this forum . Even though i might not be too happy about the game, them creating this forum and having so many people joining with the same interest that i do, enjoying and dicussing about a game that should have been dead but with an amazing community still lives. So for that, cheers beamdog.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    It feels like the OP is talking about a different and more expensive BGEE, than the one I know.
    To love the original game while being so disdainful of BGEE and its makers is unobjective. Why the prejudice, I could only speculate on, so I won't.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    "I went to GOG site and got both games for the same $20"

    Looks like the OP is blaming Beamdog for his/her own impatience. He/she could have bought the game on Steam for 50% off 3 months ago, and 40% off from Beamdog a few weeks ago. Which pretty well would have eliminated the overall cost of both games if that was indeed the problem.
  • georgelappiesgeorgelappies Member Posts: 179
    I share some of the OP's thoughts. It is not the cost issue at all, it is just that BGEE could have been so much more. The only NPC added that is ok is Dorn, the other two don't fit in with the game.

    Looking at what some of the mods can do, like the BG1 NPC mod, and the BG1 UB mod, it feels like BGEE was just an attempt to get BG to run on mobile devices with some new content added and a lot of new bugs introduced. I mean even playing a heavy modded BGT version of the game has less bugs and at least a working journal. How hard can it be to make the journal do what it must?

    And to all the posters who reported the OP for abuse, seriously? Since when is just speaking once mind about something you paid for and comparing that to something that others made for free abuse?
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    I would concur, with a specific caveat: this was never the game I wanted.

    BG1 has always been a more shallow and threadbare experience, and thanks to the contractual restrictions, I already knew BG:EE would follow suit: Dorn's entire contribution to the game is a handful of exchanges and two fights in pre-existing locations. Baeloth offers even less. From a purely objective standpoint, there's no qualitative difference between BG:EE and BGT (especially since the latter can be modded to improve existing content, which is something the EE just couldn't do). Bug-fixes aren't enough of a justification, particularly when every new patch seemed to introduce yet more issues.

    But I never perceived BG:EE as anything more than a prelude, a teaser. The real prize was BG2:EE - we've all heard about how the script has doubled in size, and how the new NPCs all have deep and involved storylines, and that all sounded great. I bought the first game largely to support Beamdog's initiative (which means the joke's on me at the moment, but that's another matter).

    So no, BG:EE - taken on its own merits - wasn't worth it. In a broader context, though, it might be someday: if certain mods are adapted, if the next patch fixes outstanding issues, if BG2:EE is ever released, the EEs could theoretically become the definitive version of the games. Right now, though? I couldn't in good conscience recommend BG:EE over the originals.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    franco said:

    BGEE ?

    1) Rapid loading
    2) Zoom and wide screen
    3) Neera, until she trashes the party

    It's like going to heaven a second time.

    Sure, but you could make the same argument in reverse:

    BGT?

    1. The entire series in one consistent playthrough (BG1/TotSC/BG2/ToB), with tome stats carrying over for returning NPCs.

    2. Widescreen mod

    3. BG1NPC (Imoen asks Edwin for magic lessons! Safana flirts with Khalid! Minsc tries to convince Xan to pet Boo!)
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @shawne. I wasn't comparing BGEE to a group of mods. I was comparing it to normal BG1, and I find it superior. To me, the ease of play is important. There will also be mods available for BGEE in the future.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @franco: But that comparison would only be valid if mods cost money, since the original question is whether the EE justifies its price. They're free, and easy to install, and so they should be taken into account when measuring what the two versions of the game offer.

    As for BG:EE mods, I direct you to @Kaeloree's comment here, specifically:

    Speaking from my perspective as a modder, there's not a lot Beamdog can do about BGEE: because most BG1 mods are for BGT or TuTu, they use BGT and TuTu's necessarily differentiated file names and are coded to deal with the quirks thereof. ... To be clear, cross-platform compatibility with BGEE is no harder than making a mod compatible with both BGT and TuTu. It's just that nobody wants to spend the time to make their mod cross-platform-compatible; unfortunately, there's not a lot Beamdog can do there.

    It will be up to each individual modder to decide whether or not they want to adapt their own mods to BG:EE, and many of them may choose not to. BG:EE may someday have a pool of mods to choose from, but BG1's/BGT's will be larger by far.
  • ambrennanambrennan Member Posts: 173
    Ahem... BG is a game from a different era, and running old software on modern operating systems is just painful do EE is very welcome for that reason alone ($20 to not have to deal with Microsoft compatibility files is money well spent).
    Plus, I can now play on iPad which is nice.
  • georgelappiesgeorgelappies Member Posts: 179
    Pecca said:

    ...BG vanilla and BGT etc. won't get any better. BG:EE will...

    It may... If all the good mod creators out there convert there mods for it, but not sure if they will and BGEE broke compatibility with all the mods.

    A lot of the mod creators moved on, the mods were made when BG and BG2 were still very hot items. Look I really hope it does well, but personally I don't think it will. There has already been so much negative issues with it.
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,215
    I might be wrong, but from what I take from this forum, most of the major mods are being catered. SCS, BG1NPCs, RR, tweaks... Even Weidu. It just takes time.

    However, one huge advantage of EEs over vanilla versions is an increased mod-friendliness. Devs tapping into source code, bunch of externalizations, new opcodes... that's something no modder could do. So I dare to say that, in time, EEs are definitely going to dominate the modding scene.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited June 2013
    Pecca said:

    Well the major drawback of BG:EE, is that it's not quite done yet. And it won't be until BG2:EE is fully developed and all it's enhancements converted to BG:EE. And of course all the major mods adapted for it.

    Sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement. First of all, a game is done when it's released to the public. You can patch it afterwards, you can add content, you can make DLCs, that's all well and good. What you can't do is put it out there and then expect people to withhold forming critical opinions for however long it'll take to "perfect" the game.
    Pecca said:

    So comparing a new product that is still a subject of polishing and enhancing, with a product that has a good decade of polishing and enhancing behind it, is a little off I think. BG vanilla and BGT etc. won't get any better. BG:EE will. So you just need to wait a little longer to make a fair comparison.

    Not really, no. You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had, etc. The BGT/BG2 modding community is still active, new versions of popular mods are being released and improved upon all the time. And seeing as how the EE's existing polishing and enhancements are at least partially based on the results of that decade of polishing and enhancement, I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that comparing the two is somehow unfair.
    Pecca said:

    IHowever, one huge advantage of EEs over vanilla versions is an increased mod-friendliness. Devs tapping into source code, bunch of externalizations, new opcodes... that's something no modder could do. So I dare to say that, in time, EEs are definitely going to dominate the modding scene.

    How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Existing mods are incompatible with the EE; the process of adapting individual mods is long and arduous, if BG1NPC is any indication; and game updates automatically remove patched content. Where's the supposed friendliness?
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,215
    @shawne: Well it's all just my opinions. I didn't expect EEs to be more popular that vanillas over night. But I think that in time they will, because they are superior versions. Nuff else to be said. And the friendliness I mentioned is on the modders side - externalizations, new opcodes etc. That's why I think modders will move on EEs in time.
  • scrawnypawsscrawnypaws Member Posts: 11
    Thanks for all replies. My post wasn't about personal tastest - you like potatoes, I like oranges - such things are personal, subjective and don't have proper review criteria.

    The core issue is very simple. The vendor promised (for those in doubt - plz, go review devs statements prior to release) certain added value worth $20 (it doesn't matter whether 20 bucks is a peanuts money for somebody - money is money).

    This value can be reviewed - just like in any company's boardroom - by objective criteria. This was the target, these were the benchmarks, this is the deliverable and this is where and by these many points it comes short. Feature by feature. And the X number of promises=100%. Y number of fails=Z%. How much is left of the original 100? Make your call.

    Then, if one still WANTS to forgive the shortcomings and LOVE the vendor - go ahead. But le't not confuse these two totally different issues.

    They didn't say "hey, we're gonna break some critical features of the original game like multi-player, release half-baked product and then take our sweet time weeding out bugs that shouldn't have been there to start with. So, CAVEAT EMPTOR." If they did, I'd have no problem with that, it would have been my risk.

    What does the product do that the BGT doesn't? Zoom in?

    I look at the original cutscenes - yes, they are naive and primitive. It's 1998, 3DS Max, what do you expect? But it's an honest work.

    The new cutscemes - oh Lord, any kid (I'm an old guy) who has just laid his/her hands on a Flash-based app could do better. What irks me is the total lack of professionalism and respect for the consumer. It feels like "hey, those nerds (wink-nudge), they'd swallow ANYTHING" was in the air a the time.

    A look at the char. icon pack - goodness me. Again, the old ones are somewhat naive. But one can see they were done with plenty of love and care. The new ones are...just sloppy.

    It's a sub-standard project and its sloppiness is an insult to a professional eye.
  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    Hmmn I can agree with you on the cutscenes, I miss the originals a lot ...
  • scrawnypawsscrawnypaws Member Posts: 11
    There's a funny side to it, though. The fact that a commersial developer, who neglected to verify if the source material is available (a must, a something one should do even before planning the conversion) and then presented it as an excuse, comes across as a hero to some is really funny.

    Thanks again.
  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    I still play both. The BGEE on my IPad and a modded version of BG on my laptop (BGtutu and NPC Project). I enjoy both of them for different reasons. I think the lack of load times on EE is amazing as is the fact that it runs so smooth. No one can really say what will happen modding wise. Will most future mods be EE or vanilla? Only time will tell. As to the new NPCs the only reason they don't fit for me is that they have dialogue and the vanilla NPCs dont. IMHO they will fit in fine in BG2EE.
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    All I know is that this "inferior product" you are talking about has given me many new hours of enjoyment that I otherwise wouldn't have had, since for years I was no longer playing the old game. That's value.

    I understand criticism, but I'm getting to feel that with the sheer aggressiveness with which you're pursuing this "Something is rotten in Denmark." I think we should all leave you be. I'm off this thread.
  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited June 2013
    You have to admit though Scrawny they did make enhancements that the community simply couldn't, we're now waiting for the community to catch up. If the music stops during a quick save in bg2 for instance, I can't willingly go back to that nonsense. Quicksaves do not disturb the ambience in BG:EE, this is not a minor detail in my books. Tradeoffs in either camp you see ...

    If they can live up to their promises with regards to multiplayer and bg2:ee I don't even think this conversation happens.

    Curse having to wait till July or something for new info ;D
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    Quartz said:

    I really don't understand people with this opinion.

    My opinion is that, yes, BG:EE is a bit disappointing. But I find it disappointing compared to BG1 Vanilla ... I can't even BEGIN to understand how someone could possibly find it disappointing compared to BGT or TuTu, because BG:EE IS JUST A MORE PROFESSIONAL VERSION OF BGT/TUTU.

    image

    Yes. To say that this game is somehow inferior to BGT/Tutu is just ridiculous considering that they're basically the same thing.

    I can understand people saying it's not worth the money though, especially if you already have Tutu/BGT installed, for exactly the same reason as above.

    For me though, it was worth it. I have all the original games on CD but it takes forever to install everything. Since the average BG player is probably about 25-35, I'm assuming that most people here make $20 or more an hour. Looking at it that way, EE isn't a bad deal. Pay $20 to not have to waste hours (which was how long it took me to install BGT the first time) of my valuable free time doing something that is a complete chore and has nothing to do with actually playing a game? Sounds good to me.

This discussion has been closed.

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