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Is there really any point playing Icewind Dale?

DKnightDKnight Member Posts: 307
edited July 2013 in Off-Topic
Ive been really thinking about Icewind Dale and I remember playing the 2nd game and just how ridiculously brutal it is compared to baldurs gate and planescape. I mean, there really isn't 1 thing that Icewind Dale 1 and or 2 did that BG and PS:T didn't do better. Both the games listed were epic but you really can't say that about ice wind dale. In any case, I don't even know how its made with the same engine and or even the same developer!

The problem is just like all other create party rpgs, there is no focus on the main character or character that is leader. Its all just a bunch of mindless/antisocial losers who band together with no dialogue, less epic of a story and all focused on fight scenes. The problem is fighting doesn't sell games, awesome stories and characters do and class options do.

Temple of Elemental Evil is out, Knights of the Chalice is out and Icewind Dale 2 is out as that game gets boring right after chapter 2 and from there its just crap. But is Icewind Dale 1 any better or is it just another mindless grind?
Post edited by Jalily on
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Comments

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited July 2013
    i really liked combat in icewind dale 1
    for IWD2 there is even tactics mod improving AI and skills of enemies for hardcore gameplay
    oh and some of the new abilities spells are great in IWD1 like shapeshifts for druids and spells for clerics

    iwd2 it is great system(dnd 3.0? 3.5?) but _really diffucult_ and can't be used to it's full potential in hack and slash like IWD2
  • DKnightDKnight Member Posts: 307
    But other than combat it falls short in every category-Roleplaying- BG, PST, Character Classes-BG, PST, Epicness- BG, PST. Its still probably better than NWnights though. That game won't even play on pc, lol.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    this is probably true but for example
    icewind dale with combat oriented gameplay is much better for multiplayer with friends than complicated multilocation quest lines of baldur's gate
  • qwert_44643qwert_44643 Member Posts: 311
    you can by neverwinter nights complete on amazon for $20,its been updated for the newer windows....plus im playing nwn from original cds and it plays on my pc just fine.
  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    Iwd2 was fun for me just trying builds with a different system than BG. I did grow bored with it fairly quickly though due to the constant battles and no real storyline. I keep saying ill go back to it but haven't (I'm at the part where you go through the maze woods like six times, borrrrring) maybe now that BGEE2 is in limbo I will go back.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    IWD2 is great for this
    could you imagine playing barbarian/mage or paladin/thief?

    you can in IWD2
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited July 2013
    Personally I'm in love with the location of Icewind Dale itself (on a side note, I still find Frozenfar and the Sea of Moving Ice to be more attractive due to their lack of a certain emo drow ranger). Not so much of the games themself though, since I consider them to be hack'n slash adventure games rather than fully fledged CRPG's. For example... when I played IWD2 for the very first time with my party full of evil tieflings and half-orcs, I really thought there was a possibility to actually side with the rather charming Legion of the Chimera. Not to mention that side of the war had such a pretty half-dragon lass as well. Yeah, right... we all know how *that* ended up. >_>
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    IWD is more of a dungeon crawler. There's a story and side quests, it's just very minor part of it.

    Though sadly, it handles a lot of things MUCH better then BG. There's more stat/class context sensitive quests (which is just bizzare for a game focusing on the combat aspect), classes generally do what they're supposed to. Fatigue is brutal, rather then an easily ignored joke. Bards have proper spell progression and were actually compensated for having 2/3 of their PnP value cut out. R/C works correctly whether it's dualed or MC (No druid spells until 8th ranger, and only up to a max of 3rd level), and rangers get the ability to "dual-wield" by getting an extra attack when equipped with a 1hd hand weapon and no shield.

    And after finishing IWD, if you've read the Icewind Dale Trilogy,....well...now you know how Crenshinibon got there in the first place. (IWD takes place 144 years before the first book).
  • DKnightDKnight Member Posts: 307
    Well even if Icewind Dale 1 is worth playing once, the chances of completing it are slim to none. People say the game is brutal beyond imagining and that a full party of 6 will have a ridiculously tough time with it. Here's the problem, I only play a party of 2 and always will in these games. Controlling 3 or more characters is too tedious for my taste and I can do with 2 than most can with 4. The problem is like was said, the game is a dungeon crawler and therefore combat is brutal. I usually play through with a party of 1 full class warrior like a paladin and 1 priest or druid or bard. I usually would take a bard but I've been meaning to try out druids for a while.

    I can do PS: Torment and Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 with that party build, can I do that in Icewind Dale 1, probably not. Playing with 3 or more characters is too tedious.
  • BobCBobC Member Posts: 47
    I'm a guy that plays RPGs for the story mostly, however, I enjoyed playing Icewind Dale. While the story isn't as good as Torment or BG2, THERE IS STILL A STORY IN THE GAME. Sorry for the caps there, but I have to point out since people keep saying "there is no story." I enjoyed the music, the setting, and a few of the NPCs. The combat was ok as well (but to be honest with you, I don't like the combat in any of the IE games).

    THere are no predefined companions, but to be honest with you, I'm ok with this. Many RPGs were liek this in the past, and I actually RP all six of my characters.
  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 629
    I have to admit, I never finished either Icewind Dale games. I'm a roleplayer, so the all player created party, and thus no interactions, plus the inferior plots just killed it for me.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    I wouldn't say inferior....while it's less story focused, IWD is actually handled much better then BG....aside from party interactions, of course.


    Icewind Dale can be solo'd as easily as any other infinity engine game, even on heart of fury mode. It's a bit harder on a mage though, cause your spell selection is largely garbage for a good portion of the game. My bard solo was pretty fun though, since they're able to qualify for not only most fighter, mage, and thief responses, they also get unique bard-only responses as well.
  • DKnightDKnight Member Posts: 307
    Well I wouldn't solo. I was just going to see if I could make a 2 man party at it like I did with every other of the infinity engine games.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    To all who are complaining about having to create your own party in IWD and IWD2, and no character interaction, please check out these:

    http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=174&Itemid=122

    http://www.gibberlings3.net/iwd2npc/

    The NPC Project for IWD mod has voice acting from the great Jason Compton, of Kelsey fame.

    Both the NPC Projects for IWD1 and IWD2 have fully voice-acted dialogues, with very complex and interesting character development through the game plots, including both interactions with your player character, and banter interactions with each other.

    The IWD1 NPC Project even has potential romances that will develop between certain npc's.

    If you love Baldur's Gate style interaction with npc's, you owe it to yourself to try IWD1 and IWD2 with the two NPC projects. When you combine these lovable characters with the improved character building systems, superlative art and music (especially in IWD1), and the increased complexity of the tactical combat possible in the Infinity Engine, you have a total win with both games.

    I will never again be able to enjoy either IWD1 or IWD2 without the NPC Projects installed. These characters are just as memorable and a part of my gaming life as Jaheira, Imoen, Minsc, and company.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I roleplay all my IWD characters.
  • DKnightDKnight Member Posts: 307
    Well Im gonna give Icewind Dale 1 a shot with a party I used in BG EE. I originally had 1 paladin (ajantis) and my character who was a thief. Instead of the thief Im taking a druid or cleric. That character will be utility/backup fighter.

    I hope it works as long as I stick with regular/lower difficulties. Im still not going to give the 2nd Dale game a chance but maybe the 1st game isnt so bad. Gotta love the old rules of 2nd edition!
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    edited July 2013
    @belgarathmth , I wish they had done an npc mod for the IW2 pregenerated custom parties - they are all quite interesting.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Oh right it's worth mentioning, in IWD:

    Druids are incredibly badass.
    Stay away from running a single-class Thief, it's worthless. Multi or Dual class it. Fighter/Thief at the very least, I guarantee you won't regret that decision.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Quartz, I'll think about that with Teri, of whom I usually make a single class rogue, the better for lots and lots of skill in both Disarm and Open, and also Hide and Move Silently.

    Could you go into more detail about why a single class thief for Teri is worse than a Teri who is a fighter-thief?
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    @belgarathmth Because there are only four thieving stats in IWD1 a la Vanilla BG1 (Stealth, Find Traps, Open Locks, Pick Pockets), and a whole load of Thief levels. You'll find yourself with an excess of thieving skills in no time at all. If you really want to pick pocket everyone for the lulz then I can see purpose in going single-class Thief, because you could easily get to 255 in that in no time ... but otherwise I see little point in it.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Quartz, ah, I see. I hadn't noticed and compared that there was only one Stealth action instead of a one-two combo.

    I will have to make Teri a fighter-thief, then.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited July 2013
    1.) Both IWD2 and IWD1 has many quests that require a different stat or class/Race to complete. In IWD1 if you've got a bard in your party you can get several quests that are only available to him. One of them is learning the song at the start from the sirene. You also require a certain intelligence / Charisma to get the man to stop drinking. The only quest in the whole Baldur's gate saga that has anything like this is the Bard stronghold. Torment is a different story as this is something that is almost in every quest.

    2.) The atmosphere is in my opinion much better in IWD1 and IWD2 than it is in Baldur's Gate. Very pretty and love how they got the snowy mountains to feel cold, and kuldahar to feel like a warm place. Also i would like to rate the Music score better in the IWD series.

    3.) The voice actors in BG are great, especially Irenicus. But there are so many great voice actors in the Icewind Dale series too. Arundel (IWD1), Sherincal and Guthma (IWD2) are some of the greatest voice actors i have had the pleasure of enjoying.

    4.) The stories aren't that bad in IWD and IWD2. I personally love them just as much as the BG trilogy. The difference for me is that there are much less quests and such, this makes the story seem a little worse for wear. But everytime i complete either IWD1 or IWD2 i can't help but to sit back and enjoy the adventure.

    5.) I would say that on some points the combat system was more Improved in IWD than it is in BG.

    IWD's biggest "Fault" was that it's a dungeon crawler. Most people prefer the system in Baldur's gate. Imagine if IWD had the same amount of quests that BG has and was less linear... I would probably enjoy it more than BG then.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    Quartz said:

    Oh right it's worth mentioning, in IWD:

    Druids are incredibly badass.
    Stay away from running a single-class Thief, it's worthless. Multi or Dual class it. Fighter/Thief at the very least, I guarantee you won't regret that decision.

    This makes me sad :( but I dare say it's true. In my run of HoW, my thief was the only character left alive at the end and just managed to finish off the dragon with magical throwing daggers.

    I'd also like to add bards to the list of classes often whinged about but are unbelievably awesome in IWD.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    DKnight said:



    The problem is just like all other create party rpgs, there is no focus on the main character or character that is leader. Its all just a bunch of mindless/antisocial losers who band together with no dialogue, less epic of a story and all focused on fight scenes. The problem is fighting doesn't sell games, awesome stories and characters do and class options do.

    Technically, the Icewind Dale is is more "epic" (in the popular meaning of the word) than the BG series. Whereas you're just some guy whos out adventuring and pursuing his own personal goals for most of BG 1+2, you fight against scheming demonic forces and an attacking army of monsters in IWD 1 and 2, respectively.

    Baldur's Gate is definitely better at giving you much freedom to roam the world with its multitudes of side quests, but the actual core plots are quite minimalistic. Icewind Dale, on the other hand, does not give you much freedom for personal mini-quests and exploration, but its story is deep and complex.


  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited July 2013
    i think most important is
    bg freedom
    iwd no freedom

    characters i will describe what i know fromy my LP of iwd1+ expansion
    ranger - very good with 1hander you gain +1 apr (kind of dual wielding)
    ranger/cleric is very powerfull with this addon maybe stronger than f/c in bg
    paladins - till level 8 they are poorman's fighters but buffed with duhm + best weapon in the game they are awesome
    druid - druids are kind of like clerics with more offensive spells but like medicore spells BUT elemental shapeshifting is soo good he is the best tank in the game maybe only weaker than mage
    also best summoner
    mages - they are quite weak compared to bg2 mages the spells are weak and there are no scrolls i don't know how but i couldn't find anything usefull my most used spells were haste/fb/sunfire + mirror image for def i was disappointed by mages from iwd1
    fighter/ilusionist is great because he will have those 5 levels spells for def + str of fighter and mirror image for tanking
    thiefs - are useless unless you just love pure class get f/t or m/t c/t f/m/t or even dual level 5 thief with maxed traps and go for something usefull like mage there are monsters dealing really good blows and being thief doesn't help in the fights f/m/t is great give him improved invisibility and haste he will stab them undead many times in round!

    fighters are ok big hp pool and grandmastery

    in my opinion power level of characters in iwd1 mostly accurate
    druid
    fighter/ilusionist best mage
    f/m/t best thief
    ranger/cleric or 7-13ranger/cleric
    fighter/cleric
    f/m/c
    m/c
    ranger
    paladin
    fighter
    mage
    bard
    thief
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    Which makes one wonder why people keep resisting the fixing of R/C. (R/C are perfectly fixed in IWD, getting only the stuff they're supposed to, and at the proper levels).

    Also, paladin can't cast DUHM till 11. (they get new spells level 1 level slower then rangers as well, 9 instead of 8 for 1st level).


    Icewind Dale is more focused, therefore it has a more solid story. And as mentioned several times, paradoxically, it's roleplaying options blow BG/BG2 away, despite technically being a dungeon crawler. Can't touch Torment, but makes BG almost as soullessly hack/slash as Diablo by comparison.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689

    Which makes one wonder why people keep resisting the fixing of R/C. (R/C are perfectly fixed in IWD, getting only the stuff they're supposed to, and at the proper levels).

    Also, paladin can't cast DUHM till 11. (they get new spells level 1 level slower then rangers as well, 9 instead of 8 for 1st level).


    Icewind Dale is more focused, therefore it has a more solid story. And as mentioned several times, paradoxically, it's roleplaying options blow BG/BG2 away, despite technically being a dungeon crawler. Can't touch Torment, but makes BG almost as soullessly hack/slash as Diablo by comparison.

    This isn't a PvP game so it doesn't matter how good the C/R is because no one is suffering for it. Most people aren't going to complain about the C/R so why fix it? And arcane magic is much more 'broken than the C/R.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366

    Which makes one wonder why people keep resisting the fixing of R/C. (R/C are perfectly fixed in IWD, getting only the stuff they're supposed to, and at the proper levels).

    Also, paladin can't cast DUHM till 11. (they get new spells level 1 level slower then rangers as well, 9 instead of 8 for 1st level).


    Icewind Dale is more focused, therefore it has a more solid story. And as mentioned several times, paradoxically, it's roleplaying options blow BG/BG2 away, despite technically being a dungeon crawler. Can't touch Torment, but makes BG almost as soullessly hack/slash as Diablo by comparison.

    i can't agree about iwd giving more rpg options
    in baldur's gate you can do anything even kill everyone in town
    in icewind dale you can only kill 1 town and that would be the end
    in baldur's gate you have story and many mini quests
    in icewind dale you have story + like 5 mini quests
    in baldur's gate you have freedom of doing any quest
    in icewind dale you have to kill them!
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