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New thief sub-class

ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
I was thinking about some classes and I thought maybe the thief should get a new sub- class:
the engineer, or something like that.
So this would be a class that focusses on picklocking, trap setting and finding traps.
Because not all players like or are good at the whole hide and backstab thing, these players now get a really good thief ( IMO ).
Because almost all sub-classes decrease the thief point you get , I tought maybe there should be one that increases the amount of points you get at a level up , so I think of something like this :

The engineer : can't be lawfull

advantages:

- 30 thief points per level
- +1THACO with crossbows
- +1 damage with crossbows
- may use 1more trap than a normal thief
- EDIT ( Cheesebelly ) :
Bolts +1 : Lvl 1-15
Bolts +2 : Lvl 16-23
Bolts +3 : Lvl 24-32
Bolts +4 : Lvl 33-40

Special High Level abilities instead of assassination HLA -

Elemental bolt coating : coats your bolt with a random element, adding 2D6 (save for half) elemental damage) for 1 turn

Steam Trap : Trap that sprays steam in a cone-shape, dealing *insert damage here* to targets - to balance it out make it friendly-fire

Accuracy : get a large bonus to THAC0, damage and range in exchange for movement and AC (engineer cannot move while Accuracy is active and loses some armor class due to their concentration)

disadvantages:

- can't use hide in shadows
- can't use move silently
- can't dual-class
- can't backstab

Let me now your ideas about it and maybe I'll change something.
Post edited by ShadowHunter on

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    edited July 2013
    A thief who can't hide in shadows is not a thief.

    Technically speaking a swashbuckler kit has almost anything you propose - he has no penalties to his skill points distribution at the start and per level. His bonus to hit and damage rolls applies to any weapon, crossbows included.

    And due to the fact he can't use a backstab ability he may opt to not put any points into HiS/MS so that other thieving skills have a major bonus. But he can hide in shadows/move silently any way - it's an integral part of being a thief.

    D&D rules see this ability as a must for those who are thieves.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)

    http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/16886/PHBR2-Complete-Thief's-Handbook-(2e)?src=s_pi&it=1

    http://www.helium.com/items/1562981-dungeons-dragons-class-the-rogue

    http://ironbombs.wordpress.com/2011/09/12/dd-class-roles-the-thief/

    http://iguanaslair.blogspot.ru/2012/02/thief-class-in-bx-d-verses-ad.html

    http://m.wikihow.com/Play-a-Rogue-in-Dungeons-and-Dragons-V3.5

    Personally, though, I think that backstabbing is one of the most pleasant features of a thief class, so even if a thief kit could have such restrictions as no hiding and silent moving I wouldn't choose this kit.

    Giving penalties to these abilities cannot be an answer as well, mainly due to the fact a kit should be different not only because of the penalties but because of a special trait that is prominent. In this case it seems to be a swashbuckler modification.

    An additional trap (and several of them) is a feature of a bounty hunter kit so it cannot be the main trait of any other kit.

    And making magical bolts (or even belts enhancing AC) alone doesn't worth a separate kit. It can be a special ability of an NPC though.
    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
    bengoshi said:

    A thief who can't hide in shadows is not a thief.

    well actually that's the idea behind it , not every player uses hide in shadows. So they get a thief class that hasn't unnecessary skills.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    I think you mean bolts not belts :)

    Unless he is also a tanner. If thats the case...I'd be keeping an eye on him :)
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    wasn't yoshimo that kind of thief? new special traps etc.?
  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
    elminster said:

    I think you mean bolts not belts :)

    Unless he is also a tanner. If thats the case...I'd be keeping an eye on him :)

    oh sorry :P in Polish it's a belt

  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
    So maybe instead of not using a thief skill , a stat penalty ?
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    At first I thought this "Engineer" kit of yours would excel at inventing odd gadgets, somewhat similar to either AD&D's Professor kit (an Gnomish Bard kit) or the Artificer kit (an Gnomish Fighter kit). Both of these very intruiging Gnome kits excel at crafting, inventing and engineering. Something I'd love to see included in BG(2):EE at some point. But it seems that's not the case with your kit. Ah well.

    There's one official AD&D kit which excels at any types of crossbows out there: the Sharpshooter (an Dwarven Fighter kit). Personally I'd rather prefer to see the Sharpshooter included.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    jan is in the game already
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    ^ Yep, he's a small oasis in the desert. Still, the Sword Coast could use more steampunk elements. Especially in form of playable kits. :)
  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143

    @Kamigoroshi it's only an idea so if you would want something added say it, 'cause what I writed was something I thought but that's why I asked you guys
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Good concept awful execution?
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    I like it. Perhaps add a few more advantages for later levels though? Something like :

    Bolts +1 : Lvl 1-15
    Bolts +2 : Lvl 16-23
    Bolts +3 : Lvl 24-32
    Bolts +4 : Lvl 33-40

    Special High Level abilities instead of assassination HLA -

    Elemental bolt coating : coats your bolt with a random element, adding 2D6 (save for half) elemental damage) for 1 turn

    Steam Trap : Trap that sprays steam in a cone-shape, dealing *insert damage here* to targets - to balance it out make it friendly-fire

    Accuracy : get a large bonus to THAC0, damage and range in exchange for movement and AC (engineer cannot move while Accuracy is active and loses some armor class due to their concentration)


    I think that could be viable from a balancing stand-point. Don't see how something like this would be overpowered, especially since you can't dual-class.
  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
    Quartz said:

    Good concept awful execution?

    That's why I put it here, I had the idea but didn't really know what to do with it

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited July 2013
    The Engineer should come up w/ cool, strange and powerful (w/ serious drawbacks) gadgets. Perhaps the Engineer can create a mechanical launcher (aka bazooka cannon). The effect is following:

    Disadv:
    -Take 1 turn to setup and packing (yes, full 60 seconds each)
    -User cannot move during setup, attack and packing
    -Take 5 rounds to reload
    -Cannot target w/in 10 meters
    -25% misfire on user for 50 fire dmg and no dmg on target, save vs death (?) for half
    -Outdoor only

    Adv:
    -Area effect explosion (10 ft sq)
    -Does raw 100 fire dmg, save vs death (?) for half
    -Ignores MR
    -Can target open space
    -Target range is 60 ft (a scout can act as a spotter)

    Another gadget is the pistol that only the Engineer can be proficient. In terms of gameplay, a pistol works exactly like a crossbow except there is no critical hit and critical miss.
  • KoyoteKoyote Member Posts: 89
    @Kamigoroshi
    I just looked up the Professor kit in my old book. Holy crap, that would be a fun kit.

    For all you who don't know, it's a gnome bard kit. The bard gains disable devices and is limited in spells the same way an illusionist is. The professor can also attempt to invent things, but when they do, their friends run for cover because things can go very wrong. It'd be very wild mageish.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    edited July 2013
    Just kidding, but don't forget the 'fix computers of family, friends and relatives' skill (once per week) as any engineer out there has.

    Well that is a drawback rather than a skill I think
  • KoyoteKoyote Member Posts: 89
    Dexter said:

    Just kidding, but don't forget the 'fix computers of family, friends and relatives' skill (once per week) as any engineer out there has.

    Well that is a drawback rather than a skill I think

    I think the drawbacks are:
    5% chance of forgetting how it goes back together.
    10% chance of losing a few of those damn small screws.
    5% chance of fixing the problem but creating a whole new one.
  • Urd1enUrd1en Member Posts: 84
    we already have trap-oriented rogue class - bounty hunter
  • SojournerSojourner Member Posts: 42
    Bounty hunters are still primarily fighters, and bounty hunting is sort of an underbelly-of-law-enforcement sort of thing.

    I agree there's a need for a rogue class or kit that doesn't force you to be a thief or assassin. Bards SHOULD'NT be primarily a fighter class, which is what they are right now. They should be primarily entertainers or musicians with somewhat "flexible" abilities, out and out thieving certainly an option, but the option to be a "cunning" bard should be there - one who doesn't have to waste points on outright thieving so he/she can invest in trickiness instead.
  • EejitEejit Member Posts: 55
    Sojourner said:

    Bounty hunters are still primarily fighters, and bounty hunting is sort of an underbelly-of-law-enforcement sort of thing.

    I agree there's a need for a rogue class or kit that doesn't force you to be a thief or assassin. Bards SHOULD'NT be primarily a fighter class, which is what they are right now.

    No they aren't. They're more like a M/T or F/M/T (if Blade) kit. They're *very* different from a fighter.
  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 332
    I like the idea of an "Engineer" kit. (I'm a huge steampunk nerd, to the point that a good portion of my body is covered in steampunkesque tattoos)
    I think it should be a shorty-only kit though. Maybe even only gnomes and dwarves. And I don't know how feasible it is for it to have custom HLAs. No other kit has this, and probably for a reason. (Keyword: coding)
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    edited July 2013
    Zanian said:

    And I don't know how feasible it is for it to have custom HLAs. No other kit has this, and probably for a reason. (Keyword: coding)

    Oh, it's possible. Each kit can have its own set of HLAs. The reason they don't is probably the same reason as for why e.g., Paladins have a mélange of Fighter and Priest HLAs and none of their own. See e.g., Refinements for an example of greater HLA variety.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    RRB added custom HLAs for most rogue kits. The swashbuckler gets custom HLA chart in the base game, the ranger gets a completely unique HLA (tracking) as well.

    Keyword: Laziness/Time Constraints. It's why most of the HLA are overtop game-breakers...or completely worthless...didn't have have time for proper balance testing before ToB was thrown out door.
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