Rebalance daggers !
Edvin
Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
Daggers are most useless weapons in BG. Anybody who can use dagger, can use somethin MUCH better, like staff, sling or cub. Besides of that, in BG is only one decent dagger ( Dagger of Venom ). According D&D rules is dagger very good weapon. Is it fastest weapon and thieves have very big bonuses if fight with daggers.
Please rebalance daggers and make then worthy at least for one profession or kit.
( You can also add at least 1-2 new fairly daggers to game )
Please rebalance daggers and make then worthy at least for one profession or kit.
( You can also add at least 1-2 new fairly daggers to game )
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That is same logic like:
Drizzt is good drow = all drows are good
The throwing daggers in BG2 got 2d4 damage + nice abilities. That's the same damage as a bastard sword has.
Boomerang dagger : 2d4 + 2
Fire tooth +3 : 2d4 + 3
Ok, now we will pretend, in BG:EE isn´t any dagger of venom.
What can you say about daggers ( in BG:EE ) now ?
If anything, you should give daggers to your high strength warriors and high damage weapons to weaker companions, since then the party gains much more overall, then stacking everything on one guy.
I modded a magical returning throwing dagger +1 (1d4+1 dmg) in my game just so my mage could have something to throw besides cumbersome throwing daggers that weigh 1 each and only stack to 40. I also recreated the non-magical poisoned throwing daggers from BG2. Both are for sale for a pretty penny at the illustrious Thunderhammer Smithy and I modded Black Lily to sell the poisoned ones (it seemed appropriate for a thieves' guild merchant). So far, it hasn't broken the game and has saved me the headache of farming skeletons at High Hedge every time I run out.
I'm not sure why the throwing daggers (and the throwing hammer) in BG2 were given double their damage potential. My guess is they probably wanted to allow mages to contribute something worthwhile during melee when their spells run out. It's not like they're going to hit very often in the BG2/ToB with their gimpy THACOs.
Shouldn't you post a request about making all the weapons deal the equal amount of damage?
The equal damage roll dices - no "useless weapons" like dagger. Everything becomes "useful". That's it!
Do not want to use a dagger - do not use it. Leave that "weak weapon" for worse and less competent players.
In BG2 you then get throwing daggers which are ridiculously good - especially in combination with poison. And yes, they do 2d4 damage.
I pretty much only ever play Baldur's Gate using a dagger and I have to say that I have never, ever had any problems. It is still my favourite weapon and if i'm honest - I own everything from BG1 to BG2 with it.
Daggers have so much variety. They can be ranged (doing double damage), they can be melee, they can be used by all classes and there is such a wide variety of them to choose from, with varying damage ratings.
My only issue with daggers, is that the most powerful one you can get in ToB is the 'Dagger of Stars'. I mean... what? Sure it's a decent weapon and all but.. the dagger of *stars*?
I am an assassin dammit! I want my +5 Bone Dagger of Bhaal!!
Given the variety of magical effects daggers have in BG2, they're kind of bland in BG/BGEE. Yes, there's the Dagger of Venom, but, as @Edvin pointed out, what else is there to mention? Longtooth is basically a short sword +2 that uses the dagger proficiency. Werebane is a +2 dagger outside of its use against lycanthropes.
By the way, the Dagger of Venom is in BG2. It just got a cosmetic change, was renamed "Neb's Nasty Cutter," and was given a limited set of charges, instead of the unlimited supply of poison it has in the BG1 version. It also does the same weapon and poison damage (3d6 + 2 hp/rd for 10 rounds).
It's a bit ironic that you play a dagger-wielding assassin, but don't like the name of the most powerful dagger in the game. Here's the description of the +4 version: Now the Stiletto of Demarchess or Life Stealer--those are what I call fitting titles for a dagger. The "Pixie Prick?" Ehh, not so much...
^.^
Very correct on Life Stealer however... I love this weapon.
Sure there are limits to daggers you may find in BG and BG2. But isn't it the case for all rogue weaponry? In BG1 you get a shortsword +2 and Shortsword +3 (backstabber) which are cool, and by this point I have already taken an extra proficiency in shortswords. Daggers get throwing capabilities, Dagger of Venom, Longtooth, Werebane etc - and can be used by all classes.
I think it is relatively balanced to be fair. Remember also, that a dagger is a dagger. 1d4 base damage to a short swords 1d6 seems about right.
I always play on the standard core rules difficulty, and with my thief/assassin always did perfectly fine when backstabbing with a dagger. Sure you can backstab with a few of the overpowered staves out there but I always find them overkill. Both my dagger and staff practically kill most in one hit by level 10, so really there is limited difference. I also cannot throw my stave at enemies, however much I want to.
People here like to say that this is a single-player game, and thus, there is no need for balance. But I disagree, because when player decides to do a certain build, just because it's viable, and others are not, then it means that he chooses how to play the game not by "how I want to play" factor, but rather for "It's the best build out here" factor. "You like throwing daggers? Then screw you, your choice is not viable!" That's not ok.
I think that adding throwing daggers isn't that much of a trouble. In fact, there is no real reason to NOT adding those.
Now, shortly about normal daggers. We have one powerful dagger in the game, that can deal huge ammount of damage (if you include the poison, that is). Besides, in general, daggers have small speed factor, and it means that they'll do attack roll little earlier than other weapons. That is useful against spellcasters.
Longsword : 1d8 / 1 backstab modifier
Dagger : 1d4 / 2 backstab modifier
Nothing wrong with adding new magical daggers, as long as they don't go crazy on bonuses...but leave the base version alone. They are, as they've always been, and there's no reason at all to change them.
That was intention this topic.
It's also balanced by the fact that dagger proficiency also nets you proficiency with throwing daggers, a fairly effective ranged weapon that also benefits from a high Strength. Axes/Throwing Axes are the only other weapon proficiency that give you access to a melee and a ranged option, and with the exception of some unique weapons throwing axes are all non-magical and very heavy.
2.) In BG2 the dagger +1 is sitting in the first room, yes. But if you walk down 10 meters to the next rooms you'll find a staff +1 and a longsword +1 sitting around. Then you get a bastard sword +1 from the demon and two handed sword +2 from the djinn.
In both BG1 and BG2 the time you'll find the dagger useful is around 5-10 minutes for most people. Beregost is location alot of people go to from the start for some easy experience (The tavern fight, the book). I see no reason to why a rogue wouldn't gain 1 additional backstab modifier from daggers.
[Edited] :
3.) Axes are better than daggers in almost every way. They got more damage and there are much better axes out there. You'll be able to get some amazing +2-3 axes in early BG2 that will last you for a long time. The throwing axes are great aswell.
I'd be all for adding some new daggers for a little variety, but it's highly unlikely that the base weapon will be altered (for the reasons I stated above).