versatile = universal so probably cleric/mage mage/thief cleric/thief i think bard will be always gimped fighter/mage so even when you have 10level bard in bg1 there is no real adv
@Dragonspear Thank you, very insightful I rolled a Blade just to try it out. So far I find him a bit like a Mage/theif, but with less spells and less versatility in thieving skills...
For some reason I find mage/thief just silly and wasteful. I've only used one in Black Pits so far, but it just seems awkward. You either use it like a mage that can also find traps (which isn't that helpful) and backstab every once and a while (which is dangerous), or you use it like a thief that can buff before fights (which also isn't that helpful). But maybe I'm missing the whole point, or they really shine at higher levels.
For some reason I find mage/thief just silly and wasteful. I've only used one in Black Pits so far, but it just seems awkward. You either use it like a mage that can also find traps (which isn't that helpful) and backstab every once and a while (which is dangerous), or you use it like a thief that can buff before fights (which also isn't that helpful). But maybe I'm missing the whole point, or they really shine at higher levels.
I use Thief/Mage as a Mage who can pick locks and find/remove traps.
For some reason I find mage/thief just silly and wasteful. I've only used one in Black Pits so far, but it just seems awkward. You either use it like a mage that can also find traps (which isn't that helpful) and backstab every once and a while (which is dangerous), or you use it like a thief that can buff before fights (which also isn't that helpful). But maybe I'm missing the whole point, or they really shine at higher levels.
One of their benefits used to be the great amount of experience they could get from scribing scrolls, unlocking locks and disabling traps. Also it frees you up of needing a thief and you can act as kind of a secondary mage for the party.
In early levels even with a blade, it is my opinion that you should be favoring a ranged weapon. I agree that he feels like a gimped mage/thief early, but he will quickly surpass the mage thief since he's a single class.
Once you get a few levels on him (and ideally a magic weapon, I'm thinking of certain +2 longswords or warhammers) you can start to melee more with him.
Also fun note: I believe Blade's are capable of the highest possible AC, with defense similar to a Kensage if I remember correctly (I.e. all those various mage protections) as you head towards the end of the games due to defensive spin.
With all that said, Blade is probably the slowest of the 3 bard kits in terms of how long it takes to fully start coming into its own, but it also has the most potential in the end. (Obviously I am talking exclusively in game here, not PnP).
@Dragonspear Blade is definitely the slowest to get started due to the partial pickpocket and lore bonuses and offensive spin not effecting ranged weapons.
For some reason I find mage/thief just silly and wasteful. I've only used one in Black Pits so far, but it just seems awkward. You either use it like a mage that can also find traps (which isn't that helpful) and backstab every once and a while (which is dangerous), or you use it like a thief that can buff before fights (which also isn't that helpful). But maybe I'm missing the whole point, or they really shine at higher levels.
I use Thief/Mage as a Mage who can pick locks and find/remove traps.
thief/mage is great because you are not wasting slot for a thief and he can do nasty stuff like hidden fireballs or backstab invisibility he is secondary mage and pretty good one i think
Fair points all around, but I guess making/bringing a character makes me a little put off. I like making characters because I think they're going to be fun or I like the flavor (which is why my mage/thief used all touch spells even though it's tremendously sub-optimal) but I can see where that's just a personal thing for me. Thanks all for the info on the combo.
My initial suggestion would be Fighter/Thief, as I absolutely love all the versatility that combination offers, but as you've already done it...
I would go with Ranger. Archers are incredibly powerful but kind of a one-trick pony. For versatility, I would recommend either a straight Ranger, or a Stalker. Stalker mage spells are nice but kind of irrelevant in BG1. The main area here is whether the extra stealth and backstabbing abilities are worth giving up tanking capabilities for. In my experience, the Stalker stealth bonus is enough for him to hide reasonably even from level 1. Nothing solves Tarnesh quite like a long sword driven into his back from the shadows...
The reason why I say Rangers is that they have high hit dice, are powerful fighters, effective scouts and eventually bring some spellcasting ability to the table. While their level progression is slow, it's still significantly faster than multiclassing. And believe it or not, Charm Animal actually has its uses early on.
I would actually recommend against Bard - as much as Bard is one of my favourite classes, I don't find them all that incredibly versatile. Bards have low Hit Dice, crappy APR, and while they can use every weapon, they only get one pip - kind of underwhelming. Their thieving skill is incredibly niche and half the kits end up more or less sacrificing it anyway. Their Mage spell level progression is painfully slow.
This is not to say the Bard is a bad class, by no means. Bard Song is an incredibly effective buff, and combined with scroll/wand cheese they have the potential to be quite strong.
1) i think fighter/thief > ranger even in bg1 bigger backstabs more thiefing and hiding skills
2) how is ranger versatile? he is just a fighter with weird kits every x/thief x/mage x/cleric is more universal pc than ranger
1) So do I, but OP said he'd already done an F/T
2) Heavy damage from both long and short range; highly durable; effective scout; basic divine capabilities. I don't define versatility by "how many options does he have" but rather by "how many situations is he effective in," and the only scenario I can think of where a Ranger isn't effective is traps. I agree that some MCs are more versatile, but like I said - OP has already tried them.
2)well pure fighter can do that minus scouting i just think universal character should do something more than "scouting" divince capabilities is rather impossible with 1 spell in bg:ee unless we are talking about bg2
Fighter/Thief happens to be my favorite class so far. It is VERY versatile, basically I can use it for everything, and just keep a party for backup in a fight. It is just I wanted something else for a change. @MilesBeyond I agree, versatile means also the number of situation you can be effective in, and fighter/Thief top that one I am trying out Blade now, time will tell if it is satisfying.
2)well pure fighter can do that minus scouting i just think universal character should do something more than "scouting" divince capabilities is rather impossible with 1 spell in bg:ee unless we are talking about bg2
Even a pure fighter could do scouting. There is at least one ring of invisibility (more in BG2) in either game.
2)well pure fighter can do that minus scouting i just think universal character should do something more than "scouting" divince capabilities is rather impossible with 1 spell in bg:ee unless we are talking about bg2
Even a pure fighter could do scouting. There is at least one ring of invisibility (more in BG2) in either game.
Only works long term if you're willing to cheese the charges in BG1 by selling/buying back from a vendor right? Some people don't like playing that way X=
2)well pure fighter can do that minus scouting i just think universal character should do something more than "scouting" divince capabilities is rather impossible with 1 spell in bg:ee unless we are talking about bg2
Even a pure fighter could do scouting. There is at least one ring of invisibility (more in BG2) in either game.
Only works long term if you're willing to cheese the charges in BG1 by selling/buying back from a vendor right? Some people don't like playing that way X=
Fighters and Thieves work well in multiclasses, they don't really lose anything in a multiclass, except for fighters not getting Grand Mastery... Fighters still get the extra attack per round from levels and THAC0, and Thieves keep pretty much all of their abilities, unless you start wearing chainmail or heavier armor.
I guess a single class human fighter/berserker with high stats is probably the most versatile. He can benefit from exceptional strength and high con, while retaining the ability to dual class into something else if desired.
I suspect that may not be what you had in mind however.
Comments
so probably cleric/mage
mage/thief
cleric/thief
i think bard will be always gimped fighter/mage so even when you have 10level bard in bg1 there is no real adv
In early levels even with a blade, it is my opinion that you should be favoring a ranged weapon. I agree that he feels like a gimped mage/thief early, but he will quickly surpass the mage thief since he's a single class.
Once you get a few levels on him (and ideally a magic weapon, I'm thinking of certain +2 longswords or warhammers) you can start to melee more with him.
Also fun note: I believe Blade's are capable of the highest possible AC, with defense similar to a Kensage if I remember correctly (I.e. all those various mage protections) as you head towards the end of the games due to defensive spin.
With all that said, Blade is probably the slowest of the 3 bard kits in terms of how long it takes to fully start coming into its own, but it also has the most potential in the end. (Obviously I am talking exclusively in game here, not PnP).
thief/mage is great because you are not wasting slot for a thief and he can do nasty stuff like hidden fireballs or backstab invisibility
he is secondary mage and pretty good one i think
I would go with Ranger. Archers are incredibly powerful but kind of a one-trick pony. For versatility, I would recommend either a straight Ranger, or a Stalker. Stalker mage spells are nice but kind of irrelevant in BG1. The main area here is whether the extra stealth and backstabbing abilities are worth giving up tanking capabilities for. In my experience, the Stalker stealth bonus is enough for him to hide reasonably even from level 1. Nothing solves Tarnesh quite like a long sword driven into his back from the shadows...
The reason why I say Rangers is that they have high hit dice, are powerful fighters, effective scouts and eventually bring some spellcasting ability to the table. While their level progression is slow, it's still significantly faster than multiclassing. And believe it or not, Charm Animal actually has its uses early on.
I would actually recommend against Bard - as much as Bard is one of my favourite classes, I don't find them all that incredibly versatile. Bards have low Hit Dice, crappy APR, and while they can use every weapon, they only get one pip - kind of underwhelming. Their thieving skill is incredibly niche and half the kits end up more or less sacrificing it anyway. Their Mage spell level progression is painfully slow.
This is not to say the Bard is a bad class, by no means. Bard Song is an incredibly effective buff, and combined with scroll/wand cheese they have the potential to be quite strong.
i think fighter/thief > ranger even in bg1 bigger backstabs more thiefing and hiding skills
2) how is ranger versatile? he is just a fighter with weird kits
every x/thief x/mage x/cleric is more universal pc than ranger
2) Heavy damage from both long and short range; highly durable; effective scout; basic divine capabilities. I don't define versatility by "how many options does he have" but rather by "how many situations is he effective in," and the only scenario I can think of where a Ranger isn't effective is traps. I agree that some MCs are more versatile, but like I said - OP has already tried them.
i just think universal character should do something more than "scouting"
divince capabilities is rather impossible with 1 spell in bg:ee unless we are talking about bg2
Bard is bard, Swashy mage is like FMT but without the massive required XP for FMT.
Thief / Anything makes a rather versatile class.
I suspect that may not be what you had in mind however.