High level assassin can get up to 9APR with both speed weapons and gauntlets of extra specialisation (UAI) + poison weapon + mislead scroll (UAI) + improved haste. that must be pretty devastating
Post hla, If i recall correctly fmt is the best backstabber by VERY far : - critical strike + backstab will kill in 1 shot anything that is not immune - mislead + gww or improved haste for continous crazy damage.
If this is a purely academic discussion, then I'm not going to interfere, because I've no idea who's the deadliest. Otherwise I'd recommend anyone developing a backstabbing character to not ask themselves whether charname's going to be the most damaging backstabber (being competent at it should be sufficient), but rather what other skills charname will bring to the table.
@Blackraven - thanks very much for the critical breakdown. that was MOST helpful. However, after playing around with it some last night and realizing that i'd have to either play Fighter/Thief or get into Shadowkeeper in order to get a Fighter/Assassin, I've opted for the lazy way out and just gonna play a straight human assassin. I could do Shadowkeeper, I just can't be bothered no matter how easy it may be. Thanks all the same.
It's a shame but that is pretty much one of the few things that I really liked about 3E (ala NWN style); the fact that you can create a fighter -> assassin. I've always been disappointed with the fact that Assassins are a 'Thief' sub-class. I'd think that they have a lot more in common with fighters than with thieves. Sure the stealth, but at the end of the day they are more about the kill than about stealing stuff. And they should at least be decent at HTH combat whereas a thief can theoretically get by without any combat skills. But that's merely my personal bias and opinion.
but seriously, thanks for the info before. I found it highly informative and very well thought out. Kudos.
You're most welcome. I agree with you on the assassin being some kind of fighter-thief hybrid rather than a thief subclass per se. Unlike you I've nothing against shadowkeepering kits into multis or duals. I do it even with NPCs, just to have more diversity and to give characters a less generic feel.
You're most welcome. I agree with you on the assassin being some kind of fighter-thief hybrid rather than a thief subclass per se. Unlike you I've nothing against shadowkeepering kits into multis or duals. I do it even with NPCs, just to have more diversity and to give characters a less generic feel.
Hey Blackraven how would I go about making a multi class fighter/assassin? I've tried in the past but something was always messed up. Thanks
@cbarchuk use EEKeeper (it is available for download on this site somewhere)
If you make a fighter/thief, you can open eekeeper and open the saved game. You go to the "characteristics" where it says your class (fighter/thief) and under the section "kits" choose assassin. Then go back to the "attributes page" and set your levels in each class to zero, and your base HP to 1. Make sure to delete all your skill points and proficiency points.
When you load the game your character will be able to level up (currently a level 0 fighter and a level 0 assassin). Level him up normally and voila! A fighter/Assassin!!!
Also works for dual classes, but requires you to immediate do this after you dual from fighter-->thief. Go do the same thing, but don't change your fighter level to 0, just your thief level, and change the kit to Assassin.
I just want a mod that lets me backstab with any weapon. I know there's Ding0's tweakpack that will let you do that, but... 1) It's not BGEE-compatible 2) There are hefty penalties for backstabbing with non-thief weapons.
I understand that the word "backstab" implies a certain degree of finesse (e.g. slipping a dagger between the ribs) but I guess that's what 3rd edition does to you. I want some more options!
If this is a purely academic discussion, then I'm not going to interfere, because I've no idea who's the deadliest. Otherwise I'd recommend anyone developing a backstabbing character to not ask themselves whether charname's going to be the most damaging backstabber (being competent at it should be sufficient), but rather what other skills charname will bring to the table.
Very well said. That's why I suggest a more "swiss-army knife" approach. IMO backstabbing makes things a lot easier and isn't very fun or challenging. My main does just about everything with "Use Any Item" and the ability to dispel, use any scroll, and his insanely high damage output. Best weapon in the game, Carsomyr +6, at 0 speed and -22 THAC0... not trying to bandwagon anyone here but there isn't a better melee kit in the game. Apart from a Sorcerer you can't have a more powerful PC in the game. I normally just give him the simple attack script and let him go to poundtown.
You're referring to your assassin -> fighter build? Well surely the fighter bit enhances the assassin's deadliness. My problem would be the downtime of your orginal class involved with dualclassing at a high level. I normally only dual at very low levels, i.e. as a fighter at level 3 just for some extra hitpoints and weapon proficiencies (not even bothering with extra APR). Or I simply play a multiclass (with a kit edited in).
I hear you on the swiss army knife approach. I always try to make my charname versatile. The challenges the game confronts you with are very diverse, and somehow it feels less heroic if charname only shines in certain specific scenarios and depends on his party members in many other situations.
@CrevsDaak: Well maybe it should be put differently. Simply don't level up until you reach the level required in your new class to reactivate your old class. This is easy if you dual at a low level as I tend to do. For example if you dual a fighter at level 3 into a thief, you only need 4 thief levels, i.e. 5000 XP. At that point you level up from Thief level 1 to Thief level 4, by which you reactivate your fighter class. You can then spend three thief weapon proficiency points to further develop weapon proficiencies or weapon styles you already invested in as a fighter. Obviously, this strategy becomes much more difficult if you dual at higher levels. You'll have a long downtime as a level 1 Thief, and will depend a lot on your party.
@Blackraven ah, thanks, I thought that there was yet another trick. Thank you anyways. The bad thing is that I tend to Dual-class at a little bit, higher, levels, let's say my Swashbuckler level 16-> mage will have a bad time if I do this (anyway I tend to change proficiencies :P even while in the game).
With BG2 EE I would go for Shadow Dancer or Sin to lvl 13 then fighter. The perks you get from warrior is better than you get from thief. As to which weapon you choose is up to you but you will need a +3 for demons, and vampires.
Comments
- critical strike + backstab will kill in 1 shot anything that is not immune
- mislead + gww or improved haste for continous crazy damage.
Otherwise I'd recommend anyone developing a backstabbing character to not ask themselves whether charname's going to be the most damaging backstabber (being competent at it should be sufficient), but rather what other skills charname will bring to the table.
but seriously, thanks for the info before. I found it highly informative and very well thought out. Kudos.
I agree with you on the assassin being some kind of fighter-thief hybrid rather than a thief subclass per se.
Unlike you I've nothing against shadowkeepering kits into multis or duals. I do it even with NPCs, just to have more diversity and to give characters a less generic feel.
If you make a fighter/thief, you can open eekeeper and open the saved game. You go to the "characteristics" where it says your class (fighter/thief) and under the section "kits" choose assassin. Then go back to the "attributes page" and set your levels in each class to zero, and your base HP to 1. Make sure to delete all your skill points and proficiency points.
When you load the game your character will be able to level up (currently a level 0 fighter and a level 0 assassin). Level him up normally and voila! A fighter/Assassin!!!
Also works for dual classes, but requires you to immediate do this after you dual from fighter-->thief. Go do the same thing, but don't change your fighter level to 0, just your thief level, and change the kit to Assassin.
1) It's not BGEE-compatible
2) There are hefty penalties for backstabbing with non-thief weapons.
I understand that the word "backstab" implies a certain degree of finesse (e.g. slipping a dagger between the ribs) but I guess that's what 3rd edition does to you. I want some more options!
Very well said. That's why I suggest a more "swiss-army knife" approach. IMO backstabbing makes things a lot easier and isn't very fun or challenging. My main does just about everything with "Use Any Item" and the ability to dispel, use any scroll, and his insanely high damage output. Best weapon in the game, Carsomyr +6, at 0 speed and -22 THAC0... not trying to bandwagon anyone here but there isn't a better melee kit in the game. Apart from a Sorcerer you can't have a more powerful PC in the game. I normally just give him the simple attack script and let him go to poundtown.
I normally only dual at very low levels, i.e. as a fighter at level 3 just for some extra hitpoints and weapon proficiencies (not even bothering with extra APR). Or I simply play a multiclass (with a kit edited in).
I hear you on the swiss army knife approach. I always try to make my charname versatile. The challenges the game confronts you with are very diverse, and somehow it feels less heroic if charname only shines in certain specific scenarios and depends on his party members in many other situations.
Obviously, this strategy becomes much more difficult if you dual at higher levels. You'll have a long downtime as a level 1 Thief, and will depend a lot on your party.
The bad thing is that I tend to Dual-class at a little bit, higher, levels, let's say my Swashbuckler level 16-> mage will have a bad time if I do this (anyway I tend to change proficiencies :P even while in the game).